HAND-HOLDING IN GAMES

Posts

Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
I guess. Though hugging is intimacy between friends. Handholding is intimacy between more-than-friends.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Jeroen_Sol
I guess. Though hugging is intimacy between friends. Handholding is intimacy between more-than-friends.


I mean, not necessarily. I've held hands with friends before.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
author=Jeroen_Sol
I guess. Though hugging is intimacy between friends. Handholding is intimacy between more-than-friends.
That's really flawed because like previously mentioned some family kiss, and not always just on the cheek. It's weird and probably more old school but hugging is more than hand holding in most cases. Like Sooz, I've held hands with friends that are girls that were just that, friends.
Well games tend to lack intimacy between friends a lot.
Sorry to derail the convo but...

You're right in that people have a low attention span these days, the world is filled with more distractions than ever.

Sheesh, Red Nova, well if you're going to use -that- argument then let's just make all future released games one button so that everyone can be included..

Going back to Far Cry, there was a really cool aspect to Far Cry 2 that I thought was amazing and that was the weapon jamming. Now it was pretty poorly implemented but with a bit of tweaking it could have been awesome. Unfortunately people complained about the difficulty of this so it was removed entirely from future games.

Liberty, I'm well aware of the diff between hand holding and quality of life upgrades. This ain't my first rodeo. Options are wonderful to have, but highlighting enemies that are behind cover is hand holding. Having a slick weapon wheel or UI for inventory management is QOL.

I'm the type of person who likes to challenge myself and I don't get a whole lot of satisfaction out of doing something that is easily accomplished. That goes for all aspects of my life and not just video games. That being said, it was awfully difficult to find someone to tackle Tactician Mode in Divinity Original Sin, lol..

Like I said before, have no issues with options and easy modes in games as long as the game comes out and says "yo, this is easy mode, are you sure you want to hand over your balls like that??" Kinda like Wolfenstein and Doom, heheh. Just don't stick me into normal mode of a game and have aim-assist, auto-tag, auto-drive, auto-boner, etc, because that's just patronizing, dood.

All of that being said, I'm not about to tell people what they should or shouldn't enjoy, if you want to play on easy mode then go for it. I just hope people out there don't forget that some of us don't want to just go out for a walk in the park holding hands.. Maybe we want to go all the way? ;p
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Prinnyhero
Like I said before, have no issues with options and easy modes in games as long as the game comes out and says "yo, this is easy mode, are you sure you want to hand over your balls like that??"
. . . .
All of that being said, I'm not about to tell people what they should or shouldn't enjoy, if you want to play on easy mode then go for it. I just hope people out there don't forget that some of us don't want to just go out for a walk in the park holding hands.. Maybe we want to go all the way? ;p


I mean, your first line there is sort of saying the opposite of your second one. You are directly saying "I am better than anyone who uses easy mode."

Which, like, if you need to feel superior to someone, okay, I guess? But feeling superior because you are better at a shooty game is weird.

Why do you need the game to say that your way of playing is better? Why can't you just be happy that you're good at the game and can turn off the assists and play it?
Didn't post anything about being 'better' than anyone else, my dood.

Don't put words in my mouth.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Do you feel the "hand over your balls" does not imply that a person is making an inferior choice?
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
As long as the game has options to tweak the difficulty to whatever you want, their starting position doesn't matter in the slightest, and the game sure as hell isn't patronizing you. The very fact that you're even saying that shows that you do in fact consider yourself superior to people who play on lower difficulties.

Which is really dumb. I like a tough challenge, but I'd sooner call myself a masochist than consider myself superior to people who play games on lower difficulties.
This just in: playing on easy mode equates to castration! Be warned video game players! Your balls may be at risk!


Seriously, there's nothing wrong with playing on whatever mode. I like easy mode if I want to breeze through a game and have a light-hearted fun time. Not every game has to be a struggle to survive! It's not about being better at the game, it's about enjoying the content the way you want. If you like having your balls ripped out through your arsehole, good for you. I don't. I like to play a game and enjoy the content without feeling like I need to fight for my right to complete the damn thing.

So yeah, that kind of thinking is pretty dumb. Just enjoy a game the way you want without putting others down for not playing it like you do. :/
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=Prinnyhero
Like I said before, have no issues with options and easy modes in games as long as the game comes out and says "yo, this is easy mode, are you sure you want to hand over your balls like that??" Kinda like Wolfenstein and Doom, heheh. Just don't stick me into normal mode of a game and have aim-assist, auto-tag, auto-drive, auto-boner, etc, because that's just patronizing, dood.

I will agree that more of these things are being put on easy by default, and that can be annoying if you just want to get in and play.

However, I am very much against the "let's shame players who play on lower difficulties" mentality, with things like calling it baby mode or something similar, having the game mock the player for playing in a manner that they are comfortable with. It's fine for a game to say, at the game's end, "try Normal or Hard Mode for a true challenge" or something, but instead its often something mocking the player, which is really not cool.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
Basically: "Heck yeah, I'm good at this game and it gives me a sense of self-accomplishment!" is fine, but "Heck yeah, I'm better than these people at this game and it gives me a sense of superiority!" is pretty pathetic.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Prinnyhero
Sheesh, Red Nova, well if you're going to use -that- argument then let's just make all future released games one button so that everyone can be included..


Nice job missing the point. Let me make it clearer: accessibility options are more than just crutches, and crying about how they are "hand-holding" the player nowadays makes a hell of a lot of assumptions about people you know nothing about.

Also, that one button games hyperbole is totally a thing, haha: https://www.crazygames.com/t/one-button https://www.kongregate.com/one-button-games


author=Prinnyhero
Like I said before, have no issues with options and easy modes in games as long as the game comes out and says "yo, this is easy mode, are you sure you want to hand over your balls like that??" Kinda like Wolfenstein and Doom, heheh. Just don't stick me into normal mode of a game and have aim-assist, auto-tag, auto-drive, auto-boner, etc, because that's just patronizing, dood.


Dude, go back and reread the argument you smugly dismissed before throwing out the word patronizing.

Feel free to laugh at anyone playing with these settings and boasting about how much better they are at the game than other people, but beyond that is just elitist bullshit.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
I'm more interested in seeing foot holding in games.


Hahah, well it seems there's a market for it anyway.
If you still laugh at the 90s ID Software difficulty descriptions as a point about gamer pride then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm going to assume Red_Nova was talking about instances of this:



This example is a game developer implementing features specifically for control accessibility. The one button point kind of irks me because it misunderstands the fundamental aspect of control accessibility. Typically disabled people want to use the controller like everyone else, but simple side effect design elements like button mashing and having to use two sticks at the same time can dampen it for them. They want to experience the same game with its relative challenges and its interactivity without bumping into things that aren't really THAT essential in the first place.

However an abled bodied person turning on these options would likely have an easier time playing through the game. The fact that those options are there means you have to live with the possibility that you can turn them on whenever you feel like you're having trouble with a section. I personally can handle that thought knowing that it means more people get to play it.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/1/6/10723150/agdq-2016-halfcoordinated-speedrun-disabled-gaming

There's a speedrunner named Halfcoordinated who plays very difficult games with basically just one hand. He is likely more skilled than me or you at Vanquish. Despite overcoming a lot of the obstacles that abled people don't have to deal with, he still suggests a plethora of control options.

The main thing is just to allow rebinding of the controls. Complete freedom over the rebinding of the controls. It's impossible to predict what everyone's situation is. A lot of other disabled gamers have come up to me and told me that I inspired them gaming and otherwise, which means more to me than I can even explain. It's really, really what I do play for in the end. They have a lot of varying situations, and you just cannot predict what would be best for each player. It could just even be personal preference for someone that doesn't have a disability. It's a really great thing to have custom controls built into your game, and I really want to see that more prevalently. As you mentioned with colorblindness, it's a big thing as well. Back to Joylancer, you can completely customize colors in that game as well.


But what if there's a retro game with no such hindsight in mind? A lower difficulty setting might actually be the solution for people who are able to overcome the control limitations but aren't quick enough to react or aim properly due to being held back. This particular situation isn't "walking in a park and holding hands" it's an option for someone who hasn't had it easy for their whole life. That's something to actually consider.
I'm not going to fight you guys on it, I mean I think it's gotten out of hand (pun intended). My intention wasn't to offend any disabled peeps and if I have I apologize, everyone should be able to enjoy games, my problem is with the excessive baby-ing that goes on in a lot of newer ones.

I like a game that makes me work for shit, not one that hands out presents and perks left and right like it's Christmas at grandmas.

Do you get Zodiac from mastering Summoner class in FFT? Fuck no! You gotta grind and hope Elidibs doesn't bitch slap you into next week with it when he casts it on you so you can have the option to learn it.

Super smash bros is another one. Remember Brawl? Remember spending hours searching out all those unlocks? Then comes Smash Wii u. It takes about 3 seconds to unlock the whole roster. -That's the type of stuff I'm talking about.
Those problems tend to be fixed these days by the whole "100%-ing". A level is fairly easy to beat. But then there's challenge modes when replaying levels. Get a three-star rating or whatever it might be in said game.

A good example that comes to my mind is Mirror's Edge. The story is fairly quickly and easily dispatched. But the real meat of the game then comes in at all those checkpoint race challenges.

And games have those things called achievements these days too. There's actual "rewards" for playing games certain ways. I'd say that's better than in-game unlocks because that's just locking away content for players, rather than having achievements on your gaming profile that you can show off to friends and enemies.

also come to think of it
Do you get Zodiac from mastering Summoner class in FFT? Fuck no! You gotta grind and hope Elidibs doesn't bitch slap you into next week with it when he casts it on you so you can have the option to learn it.

I haven't played FFT so I have no idea what that is. But it sounds to me that in order to get a powerful ability you need to grind like a crazy person. Shouldn't it really be the other way around? If you are "bad" at the game, that's when you should get some crazy powerful ability. And if you're "good" at the game you should beat it without said ability...
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Darken
I'm going to assume Red_Nova was talking about instances of this:


Good assumption. That was the argument that I was trying to present for their inclusion. I was also trying to say that general options, like the invincible leaf powerup in Super Mario 3D World or the invincible Arwing option in Star Fox Zero, were also perfectly fine. As long as they were options, I didn't see them as babying players in the slightest.

author=Prinnyhero
I like a game that makes me work for shit, not one that hands out presents and perks left and right like it's Christmas at grandmas.

Ah, now here's a talk worth having. That's a little different from having accessibility options for those who want/need it.

In that case, I think it's more of a case-by-case basis than a general problem. Getting a bunch of small rewards for completing small tasks is fine. Getting big rewards for completing hard tasks is fine. Getting an achievement for just starting a friggin new game (hi, RE7), yeah, I can see that as patronizing.

In the same vein, you could also make the argument that games these days have WAY too many tutorials. I'm not sure if it's related to what you're getting at, but I remember Fire Emblem 7 getting a lot of flak for its patronizing tutorial. Like many others, little baby Nova never played a FE game before, so I enjoyed the slow first half of Lyn's story. I didn't notice the slogging pace back then because I was distracted with the character's reactions to each new mechanic introduced. For example, seeing Florina panic at the sight of a friendly archer gave me both an insight into her character as well as an excuse to tell players that pegasus knights are weak to arrows.

Looking back on it now... yeah, I see why people think it's a patronizing tutorial. Especially now that the series has a strong following outside of Japan, I'd probably be a little miffed if the next game in the series had another lengthy, unskippable tutorial. Even then, though, the worst reaction I'd probably have is a shrug and a "meh. Let's get this over with."

author=Shinan
Do you get Zodiac from mastering Summoner class in FFT? Fuck no! You gotta grind and hope Elidibs doesn't bitch slap you into next week with it when he casts it on you so you can have the option to learn it.
I haven't played FFT so I have no idea what that is. But it sounds to me that in order to get a powerful ability you need to grind like a crazy person. Shouldn't it really be the other way around? If you are "bad" at the game, that's when you should get some crazy powerful ability. And if you're "good" at the game you should beat it without said ability...

Well, grinding in general is like a built-in easy mode in RPGs. Strategy probably wouldn't mean much if your party is so overleveled that the strongest boss attacks barely hurt your most vulnerable party members.