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HOW DO YOU MAKE SPELLS UNIQUE?
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Terozu
90
Terozu
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CloseI love the idea of spells having unique effects beyond just being elemental damage.
For my projects I like to give each a unique gimmicky effect.
For fire, you can't choose it's target but it deals more damage than other spells.
For water, it isn't as powerful as fire but you can actually choose it's target.
For earth, it counts as a physical attack and is blocked by DEF rather than MDEF.
For wind, it's the weakest of all the spells but it hits all targets.
I feel like this gives each spell a use beyond "It's that monster's weakness!"
Fire is best used in battles with only one target, water is best when finesse is needed in battle, wind is good for dealing with groups of enemies, and earth gives mages an option against targets who have high magic defense.
How do you make your spells unique? Or do you just use them for elemental weaknesses?
For my projects I like to give each a unique gimmicky effect.
For fire, you can't choose it's target but it deals more damage than other spells.
For water, it isn't as powerful as fire but you can actually choose it's target.
For earth, it counts as a physical attack and is blocked by DEF rather than MDEF.
For wind, it's the weakest of all the spells but it hits all targets.
I feel like this gives each spell a use beyond "It's that monster's weakness!"
Fire is best used in battles with only one target, water is best when finesse is needed in battle, wind is good for dealing with groups of enemies, and earth gives mages an option against targets who have high magic defense.
How do you make your spells unique? Or do you just use them for elemental weaknesses?
It helps if the mechanics of the battle system are not the standard mechanics typically used. Then, the developer can really play around with all kinds of effects.
It might help to think of RPGs more as a board game in that sense, than a video game that's been played before. Rules, and ways to get around the rules.
It might help to think of RPGs more as a board game in that sense, than a video game that's been played before. Rules, and ways to get around the rules.
While this is generally a cool idea, having elements tied to effects like this can also have downsides. For example, in Earthbound, Thunder spells hit random targets and will miss often if there aren't a lot of enemies on the screen. This makes it almost useless against single boss battles, even if the boss is weak against it.
You can design around this, of course. Taking a look at yours, like when a single boss is weak to wind, upping the weakness to make the hit-all wind spell still worth casting, or giving him flunkies that you can take out with wind.
Your Earth's is a bit weird unless there are enemy types that have a strong MDF but low DEF and the player knows it. But then they could just be weak against Earth in the first place? It can certainly be made to work, but I assume you're going to have some physical fighters in your party who could just exploit that weakness on their own unless this is a very mage-based game.
The fire's cool, especially if later on it gets trickier with enemies who negate or even absorb fire, so it becomes a risk of "do I accidentally hit the wrong target and mess things up?" This is also a balancing issue because you want some tension but not enough that using fire feels punishing to the player. Also, if Fire always packs more of a punch than the other elements, and there's only one enemy (like a big boss) on screen, Fire will always be the go-to element, so make sure to keep that in mind when designing bosses and single-enemy encounters.
Theses days, instead of giving hard and fast rules to elements, I have more fun just varying the spells themselves. In a long RPG, if every elemental spell always has the same gimmick per element, that could, in itself, get a bit boring and predictable.
You can design around this, of course. Taking a look at yours, like when a single boss is weak to wind, upping the weakness to make the hit-all wind spell still worth casting, or giving him flunkies that you can take out with wind.
Your Earth's is a bit weird unless there are enemy types that have a strong MDF but low DEF and the player knows it. But then they could just be weak against Earth in the first place? It can certainly be made to work, but I assume you're going to have some physical fighters in your party who could just exploit that weakness on their own unless this is a very mage-based game.
The fire's cool, especially if later on it gets trickier with enemies who negate or even absorb fire, so it becomes a risk of "do I accidentally hit the wrong target and mess things up?" This is also a balancing issue because you want some tension but not enough that using fire feels punishing to the player. Also, if Fire always packs more of a punch than the other elements, and there's only one enemy (like a big boss) on screen, Fire will always be the go-to element, so make sure to keep that in mind when designing bosses and single-enemy encounters.
Theses days, instead of giving hard and fast rules to elements, I have more fun just varying the spells themselves. In a long RPG, if every elemental spell always has the same gimmick per element, that could, in itself, get a bit boring and predictable.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I'd be wary of any element of randomry you add too battle- the less control a player has over their attack working, the less likely they are to use that attack, especially when it counts, like on bosses.
I'd also recommend you consider skills that aren't based on the rock-paper-scissors style of elements and weaknesses; that's very well-trodden ground at this point. You could consider options like status effects, and how skills play off statuses, or risk-reward skills, like a strong attack that cuts player HP or requires a skipped turn.
I'd also recommend you consider skills that aren't based on the rock-paper-scissors style of elements and weaknesses; that's very well-trodden ground at this point. You could consider options like status effects, and how skills play off statuses, or risk-reward skills, like a strong attack that cuts player HP or requires a skipped turn.
I've been playing a lot of Suikoden recently, and that series basically looks like:
Fire -> Group attack magic for the most part. I think there was, like, one single target spell somewhere? Medium damage.
Lightning -> Generally single attack magic. I think there was, like, one all-target spell somewhere? Strong damage.
Water -> Generally healing. Exceptions are a group attack with Breath of Ice, and a stopping of all spell-casting (this includes both friend and foe as far as I know?) with Silent Lake.
Wind -> Mixture of healing and attack magic. Wind of Sleep for support (Sleep on all foes), but, it's hit hate always felt really meh.
Earth -> Buffs and healing magic. Earthquake is ineffectual against flyers, of course.
Suikoden 4 feels like it has a non-zero number of enemies that resist Breath of Ice, specifically. There is one Unite in that game that deals Water damage, but, it's a Unite. I dunno if the sheer combined power of those characters overwhelm the resistance, or if it's just that my characters have been feedunhealthy amounts of Stat Stones, or what.
*Edit: For full disclosure, I really liked Secret of Mana, and it's elemental affinities/pairing. Sure, Fire/Water were opposites, along with Earth/Wind and Dark/Holy. Wood/Moon was an awkward pairing, though.
Well, okay, I think what I liked most about SoM was that an Earth damage spell could not only hit flying enemies (which tend to be Wind-aligned, as far as I can recall), but also are effective against them. No such luck in Final Fantasy, or it's ilk.
Fire -> Group attack magic for the most part. I think there was, like, one single target spell somewhere? Medium damage.
Lightning -> Generally single attack magic. I think there was, like, one all-target spell somewhere? Strong damage.
Water -> Generally healing. Exceptions are a group attack with Breath of Ice, and a stopping of all spell-casting (this includes both friend and foe as far as I know?) with Silent Lake.
Wind -> Mixture of healing and attack magic. Wind of Sleep for support (Sleep on all foes), but, it's hit hate always felt really meh.
Earth -> Buffs and healing magic. Earthquake is ineffectual against flyers, of course.
Suikoden 4 feels like it has a non-zero number of enemies that resist Breath of Ice, specifically. There is one Unite in that game that deals Water damage, but, it's a Unite. I dunno if the sheer combined power of those characters overwhelm the resistance, or if it's just that my characters have been feed
*Edit: For full disclosure, I really liked Secret of Mana, and it's elemental affinities/pairing. Sure, Fire/Water were opposites, along with Earth/Wind and Dark/Holy. Wood/Moon was an awkward pairing, though.
Well, okay, I think what I liked most about SoM was that an Earth damage spell could not only hit flying enemies (which tend to be Wind-aligned, as far as I can recall), but also are effective against them. No such luck in Final Fantasy, or it's ilk.
Ramshackin
1462
One thing I've always enjoyed is elemental spells that combo with each other.
An example from my current game:
Water makes a target wet
Lightning against wet targets does extra damage
Ice against wet freezes the target
Fire causes burning (damage over time)
Wind against burning spreads burning to all enemies
Earth (plant magic in this case) upgrades burning to a stronger, more damaging version
Fire against wet targets (or vice versa) automatically casts a bonus scalding steam spell for free
An example from my current game:
Water makes a target wet
Lightning against wet targets does extra damage
Ice against wet freezes the target
Fire causes burning (damage over time)
Wind against burning spreads burning to all enemies
Earth (plant magic in this case) upgrades burning to a stronger, more damaging version
Fire against wet targets (or vice versa) automatically casts a bonus scalding steam spell for free
Terozu
90
Ohh combo systems are a fun idea.
Setting them up could be easily done with states and elemental weaknesses too. You could do all sorts of things with it.
Setting them up could be easily done with states and elemental weaknesses too. You could do all sorts of things with it.
Acra
332
I've got no shortage of ways to make spells/skills stand out:
-Different ranges (Direct, Indirect, Ranged) and multi-target spells (Beams, Walls, and Field spells).
-Skills that physically move the target and/or caster.
-Stat up/downs in addition to damage.
-Appended Ailments and different affliction rates. Worth noting, Ailments/Enhancements are designed to stack, so an otherwise wimpy Poison Dart tends to inflict three times more Poison than most other sources.
-Spells that inflict Physical Fire/Water/Thunder, etc. damage and Magical Slash/Bash/Pierce damage.
-Strong base damage but poor Magic scaling and vice-versa.
-Self-harm or self-infliction of Ailments (most commonly Exhaust, doubling MP use for a while).
-Synergy or reactions with Ailments/Enhancements, like immediately shattering defensive Enhancements, or removing Poison/Binds to inflict massive damage.
-Unaimed spells, like Chain Lightning and Ricochet, that hit the chosen first target, then randomly hit several random targets.
-Multihit spells like Flourish and Rock Barrage, that can shred those with poor Defense.
-Multi-elemental spells, like Magma Boulder doing both Physical Earth and Magical Fire, while also being a Wall spell.
-Spells that use stats in nontraditional ways, like Boiling Armour inflicting more powerful burning (represented by Poison) on targets with higher Defense, or Disparity doing the difference between the target's Attack and Magic values.
Each character is locked to one element (with some special exceptions), and, generally speaking, each element has a slight favouritism throughout its spells:
-Fire is probably the most normal, generally lacking additional effects on its damage spells/skills.
-Water has plenty of multi-target spells, and a way to reduce friendly fire incidents.
-Thunder is strong, but less accurate.
-Earth is strong, but tends to have poor scaling and be slow.
-Wind is weak, but fast and tend to cost less MP (even zero, in several cases).
-Ice really likes inflicting stat downs or Bind.
-Grass has nearly twice the amount of nondamage and stat-down spells of any other element.
-Poison, the damage type, unsurprisingly, is obsessed with Poison, the Ailment.
-Different ranges (Direct, Indirect, Ranged) and multi-target spells (Beams, Walls, and Field spells).
-Skills that physically move the target and/or caster.
-Stat up/downs in addition to damage.
-Appended Ailments and different affliction rates. Worth noting, Ailments/Enhancements are designed to stack, so an otherwise wimpy Poison Dart tends to inflict three times more Poison than most other sources.
-Spells that inflict Physical Fire/Water/Thunder, etc. damage and Magical Slash/Bash/Pierce damage.
-Strong base damage but poor Magic scaling and vice-versa.
-Self-harm or self-infliction of Ailments (most commonly Exhaust, doubling MP use for a while).
-Synergy or reactions with Ailments/Enhancements, like immediately shattering defensive Enhancements, or removing Poison/Binds to inflict massive damage.
-Unaimed spells, like Chain Lightning and Ricochet, that hit the chosen first target, then randomly hit several random targets.
-Multihit spells like Flourish and Rock Barrage, that can shred those with poor Defense.
-Multi-elemental spells, like Magma Boulder doing both Physical Earth and Magical Fire, while also being a Wall spell.
-Spells that use stats in nontraditional ways, like Boiling Armour inflicting more powerful burning (represented by Poison) on targets with higher Defense, or Disparity doing the difference between the target's Attack and Magic values.
Each character is locked to one element (with some special exceptions), and, generally speaking, each element has a slight favouritism throughout its spells:
-Fire is probably the most normal, generally lacking additional effects on its damage spells/skills.
-Water has plenty of multi-target spells, and a way to reduce friendly fire incidents.
-Thunder is strong, but less accurate.
-Earth is strong, but tends to have poor scaling and be slow.
-Wind is weak, but fast and tend to cost less MP (even zero, in several cases).
-Ice really likes inflicting stat downs or Bind.
-Grass has nearly twice the amount of nondamage and stat-down spells of any other element.
-Poison, the damage type, unsurprisingly, is obsessed with Poison, the Ailment.
Irog
4858
I love to add terrain alteration effects to my spells. Ice creates walkable ice path on water and turn lava into stone. Fire spells burn wooden obstacles, evaporate water and melt ice (for example to destroy the ice bridge you made with the ice spell after you crossed the bridge).
You can also use other effects like wind that deflects arrows, set different cooldown times and travel speeds.
You can also use other effects like wind that deflects arrows, set different cooldown times and travel speeds.
EDIT: HOLY NECROPOST BATMAN what were you doing, Irog.
Ramshackin's suggestions are pretty good and easy to handle in RM*. Marrend brought up Suikoden's strong rune theming, which is a major plus for the series as it's consistent throughout the games and relates to the worlds' lore.
But, looking at this from a pure gameplay level, I'd prefer to see skills themed around that character and what their fantasy is meant to be. This might not coincide 100% with your game if you're doing a Suikoden-style system where spells are equipped or with materia or w/e, but I think it's still really good advice.
let's look at Kacey from my current project, for example. He's meant to be a fiery knight (tank) with an emphasis on stacking buffs, because tanks tend to get a lot of buffs cast on them anyway y'know?
Firstly, Kacey's basic attack Flamberge deals Phys damage but can inflict Burn, giving him a source of Flame damage from the getgo. He's good at chopping up floral or snowy enemies. Aries Strike plays into the tank fantasy by giving him a cheap attack that deals up to 120% additional damage as his loses HP -- and due to how turns work in the game, he can be healed right after. This lets you take advantage of a hairy situation, one that Kacey would very much enjoy.
To take advantage of buff stacking, Kacey always starts battle with Shining Beacon, a unique buff that raises his damage and accuracy by 20%. Critical hits can reapply it, as it only lasts for two turns, so any sorta crit-boosting buff or gear is gonna help. It also ensures Kacey has buffs to start off with because his main damage ability, Flames of War, is expensive but deals 10% more damage for every buff on him. The multipliers there start to add up quickly!
To ensure Kacey can support himself and protect others, he gets Phalanx. This raises an ally's Defense and extends their buffs by an additional turn -- very useful if he wants to preserve, say, Juneau's buffs so that she can copy them onto Kacey later with her Bonds of Fate. And, to finish up the fiery-paladin-hero fantasy, Kacey gets Legendary (a passive that makes him deal more damage to demons and dragons) and Purity of Body (a heal that grows in power for each debuff it cleanses).
So, Fire burns and cleanses, and likes to stack up effects. So, where else can we see that theme pushed?
Roc gets Incinerator, a double-punch that casts a Flame spell as if it were a physical attack. It also Burns, which is important because his Skullcrusher can Stun enemies with three or more debuffs applied. Roc continues the "stacking" theme with Improvise, raising an ally's critical hit rate/damage (put that on Kacey, eh?) and also buffing their overall damage if they have no other buffs applied. It's a good way to open a fight*. Finally, Roc's Momentum passive means that every time he uses his basic attack, its damage grows by a stacking 20% for the rest of the battle. Nice work, Roc!
Our last character with Flame attacks is Lucian, who gets Sand Dragon Salsa. All of Lucian's dances have an initial and then two-turn party effect, and SDS's initial is blasting out random shots of Flame magic. Oh, but you want more? Level her enough to get Flash Dance and she can cast her other spells as a follow-up while dancing, letting you send out a fiery, stormy barrage. (And, in case you were worried she didn't help Kacey's buffs out, her Rhythm of the Night resets the duration of all buffs on the party.)
tl;dr: think about theming and how you can create skillsets that feel good when they interact with each other.
*i understand that Shining Beacon means akcey can't fully benefit from a turn-one improvise but it's okay really we'll make it through this
Ramshackin's suggestions are pretty good and easy to handle in RM*. Marrend brought up Suikoden's strong rune theming, which is a major plus for the series as it's consistent throughout the games and relates to the worlds' lore.
But, looking at this from a pure gameplay level, I'd prefer to see skills themed around that character and what their fantasy is meant to be. This might not coincide 100% with your game if you're doing a Suikoden-style system where spells are equipped or with materia or w/e, but I think it's still really good advice.
let's look at Kacey from my current project, for example. He's meant to be a fiery knight (tank) with an emphasis on stacking buffs, because tanks tend to get a lot of buffs cast on them anyway y'know?
Firstly, Kacey's basic attack Flamberge deals Phys damage but can inflict Burn, giving him a source of Flame damage from the getgo. He's good at chopping up floral or snowy enemies. Aries Strike plays into the tank fantasy by giving him a cheap attack that deals up to 120% additional damage as his loses HP -- and due to how turns work in the game, he can be healed right after. This lets you take advantage of a hairy situation, one that Kacey would very much enjoy.
To take advantage of buff stacking, Kacey always starts battle with Shining Beacon, a unique buff that raises his damage and accuracy by 20%. Critical hits can reapply it, as it only lasts for two turns, so any sorta crit-boosting buff or gear is gonna help. It also ensures Kacey has buffs to start off with because his main damage ability, Flames of War, is expensive but deals 10% more damage for every buff on him. The multipliers there start to add up quickly!
To ensure Kacey can support himself and protect others, he gets Phalanx. This raises an ally's Defense and extends their buffs by an additional turn -- very useful if he wants to preserve, say, Juneau's buffs so that she can copy them onto Kacey later with her Bonds of Fate. And, to finish up the fiery-paladin-hero fantasy, Kacey gets Legendary (a passive that makes him deal more damage to demons and dragons) and Purity of Body (a heal that grows in power for each debuff it cleanses).
So, Fire burns and cleanses, and likes to stack up effects. So, where else can we see that theme pushed?
Roc gets Incinerator, a double-punch that casts a Flame spell as if it were a physical attack. It also Burns, which is important because his Skullcrusher can Stun enemies with three or more debuffs applied. Roc continues the "stacking" theme with Improvise, raising an ally's critical hit rate/damage (put that on Kacey, eh?) and also buffing their overall damage if they have no other buffs applied. It's a good way to open a fight*. Finally, Roc's Momentum passive means that every time he uses his basic attack, its damage grows by a stacking 20% for the rest of the battle. Nice work, Roc!
Our last character with Flame attacks is Lucian, who gets Sand Dragon Salsa. All of Lucian's dances have an initial and then two-turn party effect, and SDS's initial is blasting out random shots of Flame magic. Oh, but you want more? Level her enough to get Flash Dance and she can cast her other spells as a follow-up while dancing, letting you send out a fiery, stormy barrage. (And, in case you were worried she didn't help Kacey's buffs out, her Rhythm of the Night resets the duration of all buffs on the party.)
tl;dr: think about theming and how you can create skillsets that feel good when they interact with each other.
*i understand that Shining Beacon means akcey can't fully benefit from a turn-one improvise but it's okay really we'll make it through this
Darken
3952
You make it entirely situational and useless for most of the game and for someone 10 years later to think it has potential for their rpgmaker project. Oh wait I got that reversed.
Irog
4858
author=CrazeSorry, my bad. When does a post start to be considered as necroposting?
EDIT: HOLY NECROPOST BATMAN what were you doing, Irog.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I mean three months is pretty dead.
Not that necroposting is necessarily bad, IMO, especially if it's just general discussion.
Not that necroposting is necessarily bad, IMO, especially if it's just general discussion.
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