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Faye
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...some of your maps have basic mapping errors and you seem not to know shift mapping, a general skill for making maps. It's neat that you're putting yourself out there, have the confidence to do so and you certainly have skill, but you might need to make sure that when presenting yourself for paid work that what you show can't be pointed at as having issues. ^.^;
You certainly can make some great atmospheres, though, and your lighting use is pretty nice, but you should probably work on making sure the base maps are as up to the standard of skill as your other abilities before opening a shop.
You certainly can make some great atmospheres, though, and your lighting use is pretty nice, but you should probably work on making sure the base maps are as up to the standard of skill as your other abilities before opening a shop.
Faye
138
Excuse me, I do know how to shift map o.ó
Edit: I agree some of these pics are actually very old, but yet...
Edit: I agree some of these pics are actually very old, but yet...
Ah, it doesn't seem apparent in the way you've mapped cliffs and grass patches, not making use of the overlap effect of such. There's a fair few cliff height issues in the maps you've shown off, and a few cases of 'throwing down decoration tiles just to fill space', from the looks of it (flower patches in the forest village, which also has issues with canopy height issues and that tree at the top growing out sideways, for example).
Like I said, you obviously have skill building atmosphere and using lighting, and some of the maps are really very nice work, but there's more than a couple that have very basic problems from a mapping structure point of view, which doesn't reflect well on you when someone is looking to purchase your ability to map.
Sorry if I come off as insulting or condescending in any way, that isn't my intention, but I just wanted to alert you to those problems, especially as you're charging over $5 for maps that can't stand up well on their own without the lighting.
Like I said, you obviously have skill building atmosphere and using lighting, and some of the maps are really very nice work, but there's more than a couple that have very basic problems from a mapping structure point of view, which doesn't reflect well on you when someone is looking to purchase your ability to map.
Sorry if I come off as insulting or condescending in any way, that isn't my intention, but I just wanted to alert you to those problems, especially as you're charging over $5 for maps that can't stand up well on their own without the lighting.
Faye
138
Not the case, ma'am, I get what you are intending to say. Again, some of the maps are very old, and I can see them not displaying my current skills. My bad for searching in my screenshots folder indiscriminately. I don't even remembered them having such problems.
May as well update the showcase area. Thanks for your feedback.
May as well update the showcase area. Thanks for your feedback.
KuluGary
0
Hello!
I wanted to come to the forums because I want to recommend the maps Faye does.
He's an excellent mapper that has already worked as a level designer in games that are up in the market. I personally had the pleasure to collaborate with him for a time and know personally his good work ethics, and the polished skills he has to bring to the table.
Don't be discouraged to contact him if you want efficiently made maps by an experienced level designer. He's excellent at communication, and if you find any mistakes can easily contact him and is entirely open at constructive criticism ;)
I can't recommend him enough. Again, don't be discouraged and try it out!
I wanted to come to the forums because I want to recommend the maps Faye does.
He's an excellent mapper that has already worked as a level designer in games that are up in the market. I personally had the pleasure to collaborate with him for a time and know personally his good work ethics, and the polished skills he has to bring to the table.
Don't be discouraged to contact him if you want efficiently made maps by an experienced level designer. He's excellent at communication, and if you find any mistakes can easily contact him and is entirely open at constructive criticism ;)
I can't recommend him enough. Again, don't be discouraged and try it out!
Faye
138
MAIN THREAD UPDATED.
In regards of recent feedback, I've uploaded new showcase images to prove that I not only can shift+map, but I also can make solid maps from a structure point of view.
Before continuing, I want to express that, unless you're using custom graphics, your maps **will not ever look as good as they would with lighting effects**. No map stand for its own in-game. It may wow one when looking at a whole picture, but in-game you get to see small portions of it.
And that's the reason why scenario-like maps are better than hellishly structurated maps.
The following maps, except for the *first one*, contain no screen effects, and are full mapshots. All maps, except for the *first one*, were done under six hours, at the present date.
Maps were done using only RTP to better showcase my skills, as it is easy to look good when using custom resources and/or edits. (Not condemning its use at all, au contraire).
The first map shows what can a good, creative parallax mapper can do.
These will be added to the showcase section. Thanks for viewing this thread.
Yeahhhh, there's a lot of cliff/wall height issues in most of those maps. You should work on that. And, again, a fair amount of decoration spam.
:shrug:
If people want to hire you that's up to them but at least they can see some base maps and the issues in them now without the issues being hidden by the pretty lighting.
:shrug:
If people want to hire you that's up to them but at least they can see some base maps and the issues in them now without the issues being hidden by the pretty lighting.
author=Liberty
Ah, it doesn't seem apparent in the way you've mapped cliffs and grass patches, not making use of the overlap effect of such. There's a fair few cliff height issues in the maps you've shown off, and a few cases of 'throwing down decoration tiles just to fill space', from the looks of it (flower patches in the forest village, which also has issues with canopy height issues and that tree at the top growing out sideways, for example).
Like I said, you obviously have skill building atmosphere and using lighting, and some of the maps are really very nice work, but there's more than a couple that have very basic problems from a mapping structure point of view, which doesn't reflect well on you when someone is looking to purchase your ability to map.
Sorry if I come off as insulting or condescending in any way, that isn't my intention, but I just wanted to alert you to those problems, especially as you're charging over $5 for maps that can't stand up well on their own without the lighting.
Yeah, this. Also, charging by the tile is kinda despicable.
Let's do math here. 500 x 500 tiles is 250k tiles (which winds up over $200). Also, your math sucks. You're doing the math almost like a perimeter.
I was trained by businesses such as Walmart, where their motto was "save money, live better." While I was treated horribly by the company (as are all the employees, basically foodstamped workers), the basic idea stuck with me.
As a now self-employed worker, I believe that while workers do deserve their money (you can't afford to stiff yourself or you won't stay in business), your primary goal is to help the customer. A more reasonable figure by far is to price $0.10 per 100 squares, basically dividing by 1000 (30 x 15 is 450, making $0.45 while a huge map is still profitable with it working out better for you for 500 x 500), or price by map size range ($1 for smallest, to up to $50 for largest).
Just as a heads up, not only does this help them, but it helps you. If your prices are not reasonable, someone else takes your business. Why get an "excellent map" when you can get a less flashy but more diligent mapper willing to work for less.
As an object lesson, read the manga Goblin Slayer. Most of the adventurers are too cheap to hunt goblins, so they become the problem of beginners that get slaughtered. The title character is willing to accept the cheap prices so they basically have a steady income.
I think the price idea is fine, as long as the maps are done well. $5-$10 per map isn't a bad price at all.
Have you thought about just selling your lighting/atmosphere skills instead?
Have you thought about just selling your lighting/atmosphere skills instead?
author=bulmabriefs144
Also, charging by the tile is kinda despicable.
No it's not. Charging by the tile is absolutely fine, and in fact it makes more sense than a lot of other ways I've seen people do it.
Also it's really crappy to tell artists or other creative types to undersell to attract more customers. While this works in theory, it often makes artists undervalue their own work and end up working for very little. Those who do cave in are often victims of burn out or loss of passion. Your "Walmart" way of pricing isn't a sound idea.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Wal Mart is notorious for undercharging in ways that aren't really ethical and making up the price by gouging employees so maybe it shouldn't be your go-to for a business model. Just saying.
I think the best advice you can be offered at the moment is that any sort of "advice" you read from bulmabriefs can be discarded in favor of listening to people with no sweatshop mentality.
Charging by the tile is what everybody should be doing, your primary objective is not to "help the customers". This is no charity or a basic necessity, this is a luxury service. A valuable, time consuming step in rpgmaker development that a lot of devs don't want to tackle themselves exactly because it's draining and can be daunting for people with big games with lots of maps. If people are willing to pay to have this weight taken off their shoulders then they should pay the proper price. And the proper price is defined by the artist themselves. Sell at the price you think you're worth, and then lower/increase in a case by case basis if needed.
I could suggest starting with a base tile price and reducing the price per tile just a tiny bit when you get bulk orders. I would *not* undersell myself to get more coin, since most of the people who do custom resources here already charge way less than the industry standard, some even do it for below minimum wage.
Charging by the tile is what everybody should be doing, your primary objective is not to "help the customers". This is no charity or a basic necessity, this is a luxury service. A valuable, time consuming step in rpgmaker development that a lot of devs don't want to tackle themselves exactly because it's draining and can be daunting for people with big games with lots of maps. If people are willing to pay to have this weight taken off their shoulders then they should pay the proper price. And the proper price is defined by the artist themselves. Sell at the price you think you're worth, and then lower/increase in a case by case basis if needed.
I could suggest starting with a base tile price and reducing the price per tile just a tiny bit when you get bulk orders. I would *not* undersell myself to get more coin, since most of the people who do custom resources here already charge way less than the industry standard, some even do it for below minimum wage.
As said by others, and myself earlier - the pricing is fine. It's just some of the mapping issues that cause me to question anything about the shop, honestly. I think it's perfectly fine to charge based on tiles. It makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm kinda surprised you didn't just make it 25c instead, though, to make it easier to calculate for yourself and others - I would have.
I actually like that idea of price and will probably be using it myself when I ever get around to selling maps. It's a very good, very logical idea. Just... make sure the maps are on point if you're charging money for them, is all I'm worried about.
I actually like that idea of price and will probably be using it myself when I ever get around to selling maps. It's a very good, very logical idea. Just... make sure the maps are on point if you're charging money for them, is all I'm worried about.
author=Mirak
I think the best advice you can be offered at the moment is that any sort of "advice" you read from bulmabriefs can be discarded in favor of listening to people with no sweatshop mentality.
Just seconding this.
Bulma, pricing isn't just about the content. Artistic jobs like mapping, composing or drawing take a long time and are tiring for the artist. It takes a lot of not only inspiration but also motivation. I'd say at least half of the money you spend on something artistic comes from paying the artist for their efforts and only the other half is for the end product itself. On the other hand, why do I bother. Not like anyone's been able to set bulma straight.
I think you have some really great maps in there, but I agree with Libby in that some of them are not quite up to par. Still, I'd say the maps are paying for at their current price.
author=Liberty
As said by others, and myself earlier - the pricing is fine. It's just some of the mapping issues that cause me to question anything about the shop, honestly. I think it's perfectly fine to charge based on tiles. It makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm kinda surprised you didn't just make it 25c instead, though, to make it easier to calculate for yourself and others - I would have.
I actually like that idea of price and will probably be using it myself when I ever get around to selling maps. It's a very good, very logical idea. Just... make sure the maps are on point if you're charging money for them, is all I'm worried about.
Yeah, to be clear, I have zero problems with what you've said here. We all work hard on our own mapping so when someone claims to be a Level 100 Mapping Wizard but has basic errors in some of their maps, I think it's totally fine to point that out so that people paying for it know what they're getting.
I'm just sick of bb's attitude towards creative work, as it's one I see all the time that devalue's the work that's put into these things. It's something you see a lot and I feel it's just not what we should be telling people.
Oh definitely. I'm all for supporting artists and creators for getting a fair shake. It's terrible the way some people treat the creative arts when it comes to purchasing services. Art is as important in some ways as plumbing or heating. It makes a record of culture and society, creates an emotional impact and paves the way for human ingenuity. It's a crime that it gets overlooked so badly when it comes time to pay out for it.
You expect to make money off your game? Then pay for the person who makes part of it for you. It's a skill you don't have, so just like cooking, driving, singing, etc. You're not going to tell a chef that you're not paying for the meal they cooked you, or the taxi driver that they're not getting money for taking you from point A to B, or bail out of a concert before paying the seating price. That's against the law!
So why do you feel you should be allowed to skimp on paying the artist for the skill they have and have used on your behalf?
You expect to make money off your game? Then pay for the person who makes part of it for you. It's a skill you don't have, so just like cooking, driving, singing, etc. You're not going to tell a chef that you're not paying for the meal they cooked you, or the taxi driver that they're not getting money for taking you from point A to B, or bail out of a concert before paying the seating price. That's against the law!
So why do you feel you should be allowed to skimp on paying the artist for the skill they have and have used on your behalf?
Faye
138
Looks like things got kinda out of control here. Even Walmart was brought to the table. Crazy.
I won't reply to someone whose advice is to read Goblin Slayer for business model.
And, with all respect you deserve (and anyone): why would a soul want a 500x500 map anyways? Even then, a 500x500 is monstruous, and I don't see 200$ a bad price for something that'd take a week or more to complete. And blood, and sweat.
I'll look into cliff height issues, thanks. Have never noticed anything in-game, though.
Still, I can assure my maps are in no way bad, or poor. Polishment issues are shown in the pics I put yesterday, that is for sure, but that is something that would not occur for a commission. If you want, any of you can commission me a map for free. No bigger than 100x100. I am not a bad mapper, and I can show.
I do sell my lighting/atmosphere separately, too. It is not necessary to request maps for me to do lighting. If someone wants only lighting for their maps, I can do that too. I am open for business :)
Think of the 24c as a natural small discount. However, I agree 25c is easier for calculations.
Let's not put things out of context, please. The image is obviously a "funny" presentation. Please, just look at the crappy photoshop explosion. Yet, if you want to take it serious, please look at how the "wizard" part is about how I turn a simple, raw map into an atmospheric map. I showcase lighting there, not mapping abilities.
Thanks for all your comments, guys, but I do not think this is place to discuss pricing and business models, though I found interesting to hear your opinions.
Thanks all for taking your time to view the thread and responding. Cheers.
Edit: almost forget.
Thank you for your words, I appreciate them :)
I won't reply to someone whose advice is to read Goblin Slayer for business model.
And, with all respect you deserve (and anyone): why would a soul want a 500x500 map anyways? Even then, a 500x500 is monstruous, and I don't see 200$ a bad price for something that'd take a week or more to complete. And blood, and sweat.
I'll look into cliff height issues, thanks. Have never noticed anything in-game, though.
Still, I can assure my maps are in no way bad, or poor. Polishment issues are shown in the pics I put yesterday, that is for sure, but that is something that would not occur for a commission. If you want, any of you can commission me a map for free. No bigger than 100x100. I am not a bad mapper, and I can show.
author=Liberty
Have you thought about just selling your lighting/atmosphere skills instead?
I do sell my lighting/atmosphere separately, too. It is not necessary to request maps for me to do lighting. If someone wants only lighting for their maps, I can do that too. I am open for business :)
author=Liberty
As said by others, and myself earlier - the pricing is fine. It's just some of the mapping issues that cause me to question anything about the shop, honestly. I think it's perfectly fine to charge based on tiles. It makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm kinda surprised you didn't just make it 25c instead, though, to make it easier to calculate for yourself and others - I would have.
Think of the 24c as a natural small discount. However, I agree 25c is easier for calculations.
author=unity
Yeah, to be clear, I have zero problems with what you've said here. We all work hard on our own mapping so when someone claims to be a Level 100 Mapping Wizard but has basic errors in some of their maps, I think it's totally fine to point that out so that people paying for it know what they're getting.
Let's not put things out of context, please. The image is obviously a "funny" presentation. Please, just look at the crappy photoshop explosion. Yet, if you want to take it serious, please look at how the "wizard" part is about how I turn a simple, raw map into an atmospheric map. I showcase lighting there, not mapping abilities.
Thanks for all your comments, guys, but I do not think this is place to discuss pricing and business models, though I found interesting to hear your opinions.
Thanks all for taking your time to view the thread and responding. Cheers.
Edit: almost forget.
author=Frogge
I think you have some really great maps in there, but I agree with Libby in that some of them are not quite up to par. Still, I'd say the maps are paying for at their current price.
Thank you for your words, I appreciate them :)
visitorsfromdreams
3530
These arent the worst maps I have ever seen but they are a long way from the best. As someone that uses their own original assets I cant comment on the use of the RTP for mapping but what I do have a good understanding of is level design and thats something I can very clearly tell is missing from these examples.
Theres nothing interesting about these maps from a mechanical or movement standpoint. They are all either large boxes or linear A - B lines. Theres no examples here of branching paths, multiple routes, traversal puzzles, environmental storytelling, explorative maps using prop placement for navigation. Just a bunch of pretty okay RTP environments.
Good level design is something most RPGM games seem to lack and most developers seem to get so caught up in how things look mapping wise that they forget to think about how interesting something actually is for a player to navigate. If you want to have a real point of difference (something you do have in regards to the approach of your sales pitch) study level design and learn to make maps that dont just look good but actually FEEL good as well.
Theres potential here, there always is, but theres a lot more to mapping than the surface level issues mentioned before this post in this thread. I look forward to seeing your work improve as time goes on because you seem genuinely passionate about what your doing which is nice to see considering its this one specific aspect of game design your focusing on.
Theres nothing interesting about these maps from a mechanical or movement standpoint. They are all either large boxes or linear A - B lines. Theres no examples here of branching paths, multiple routes, traversal puzzles, environmental storytelling, explorative maps using prop placement for navigation. Just a bunch of pretty okay RTP environments.
Good level design is something most RPGM games seem to lack and most developers seem to get so caught up in how things look mapping wise that they forget to think about how interesting something actually is for a player to navigate. If you want to have a real point of difference (something you do have in regards to the approach of your sales pitch) study level design and learn to make maps that dont just look good but actually FEEL good as well.
Theres potential here, there always is, but theres a lot more to mapping than the surface level issues mentioned before this post in this thread. I look forward to seeing your work improve as time goes on because you seem genuinely passionate about what your doing which is nice to see considering its this one specific aspect of game design your focusing on.
God imagine how much I would've made if this was a thing when I was around haha. Also just to add I don't know about all his examples but at least one of them he's completely ripped off from The Inquisitor.
