[MAFIA] CHRONO TRIGGER - A MAFIA THROUGH TIME - GAME OVER

Posts

CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
k we have less than 24 hours left so I'm not going to spend too long on this.

author=LockeZ
author=Cap_H
Cave calling LockeZ fake claim truth and policy voting odd doesn't sit well with me. I think we might be looking at Cave/LockeZ pairing.
I don't see Muffle's reason for blaiming LockeZ. Her vote is worse of an entrance than claiming a monster with an ability to become of the worst nightmares of mafia's town.
Psy's comment on this is really weird.
I don't get why he's voting demonlord. He totally had to delete his reason from that post by accident.
Everything about this post annoys me, it reads like someone pretending to legitimately look for clues while actually doing nothing. Just completely failing to comprehend the idea of humor from my Pahoehoe claim and also thinking that Cavedog is taking it seriously when he's just playing along with the joke. Then the total lack of reading comprehension on Muffle's post, where she followed my lead about the time zone vote before the game, and is now blaming me for the fact that the End of Time is boring, which frankly is the most legit lynch vote in this entire thread so far. And then Demonlord asks Psy who he would sacrifice and Psy responds by voting to sacrifice Demonlord, and Cap_H is like "dude you forgot to list a reason for your vote" like he somehow can't read and doesn't understand how a conversation works.

Either Cap_H is brain damaged, or he's scum and is doing a really bad job of pretending to go scum-hunting.

#lynch Cap_H


I went over this when it happened. this post is, um, really overextending for a d1 vote, especially considering cap's history and posting style in previous games, which most of us, (at least, lockez) know.

author=LockeZ
Hey psy, why did you vote to travel to 2300 AD today?


completely meaningless question so you don't appear to be doing nothing

author=LockeZ
I had a whole post typed up about Lavos's power in the final boss fight being that he has a decoy body that gets revived by his real secret body, and how this might have been translated into mafia game mechanics. But it turns out it's all irrelevant and Fomar is just a doofus.

I'm not 100% convinced that the end-of-day Emily bandwagon was all town. Demonlord and Cavedog both voted very late and might have done so just to look like town. Emily had the majority of votes anyway at that point, and despite Fomar's shouting there is nothing in the rules to say that lynching only happens with a majority. On the contrary, the rules say you can vote to nolynch, which implies to me that a vote to nolynch is different from not voting (otherwise the option would not exist).

At the very least, it seems unclear enough to me that I think Demonlord or Cavedog could have believed that Emily was a lost cause, and joined the lynch vote to kill her just to look good. Or they might have done that to look good anyway, even if they thought they were killing her. It's a good way to look good, after all.

I do think psy_wombats is very likely town as he was on AlaskanEmily's ass for a large portion of day 1, and was the other person (alongside Fomar) responsible for creating and pushing the end-of-day train against her.


giant post that says nothing. demonlord and cave COULD be scum...or they could NOT be... (100 percent of possibilities accounted for) and a town call on psywombats and fomar. i don't need to explain why those calls are really easy to make. everyone else just took that for granted. post is just filler.

author=LockeZ
My top targets, in order, are muffle, lizard, maybe demonlord, maybe-maybe cavedog. I really don't like Muffle's role claim without a character name. It reeks to me of "I haven't played Chrono Trigger so I don't know which characters are believable role claims with this power." She was also really panicky at the beginning of the day today.

I know I said I didn't think Cavedog's vote against Emily was any kind of super 100% perfect evidence of his innocence, but after re-reading the topic again, he is still being more productive than the other three I mentioned. He's still doing the Cavedog thing where he doesn't explain a lot of what he thinks, and does so in one sentence when he does, but that's not really a scum tell, it's just him. I just always feel kind of worried about Cavedog because I have no goddamn clue how to tell what he's thinking, and every time I'm convinced he's town I end up losing to him.


nullread on me and demon and scumpicks on the two other most vulnerable players. seems um. a bit opportunistic. like someone's not looking for scum and just voting where they feel they *have* to.

author=LockeZ
Uh, and I forgot to say that Emily is on my scum list obviously, but I feel like that should go without saying. She'll die, so whatever. If she flips town then we learn that we were all fools, but it'll be easy (probably) (hopefully) to figure out who framed her at that point. She seems convinced it was Fomar for some reason that I haven't figured out. I would like to hear the logic behind that one explained again if possible, Emily, just for posterity in case you're telling the truth.

Also, this era sucks, let's go somewhere else. At least we know the end of time is safe. I'm open to better ideas. There's apparently a fire character on the town side, so we could go to whichever era you guys think is fire element, but I suspect it's 1999 AD, and that sounds like a fucking terrible idea.

#travel End of Time


has nothing to say but has to post words.

author=LockeZ
I would actually think Magus is more likely to be an independent role. That would kind of explain some of her behavior, like how she is entirely just defending herself instead of scum-hunting (she's not even pretending to scum-hunt, really). And also make it more believable that she has the same power as another member of town.

On the other hand, if I were scum and I had to fake a roleclaim, Magus is exactly who I'd claim as, for that exact reason. If the real Magus is neutral then they might just decide to keep their mouth shut. This strategy seems implausible for an Emily/Muffle pair though because neither of them have played Chrono Trigger. So the Magus-as-independent thing probably wouldn't occur to either of them. They might have just

So in short I actually don't think Muffle is scum now.

I guess that narrows it down.

#lynch Lizardman_Princess


more setup spec based on...moderator meta? leading to vote on most vulnerable player because duh

author=LockeZ
...I somehow completely missed that.


ok does anyone actually believe that lockez missed that lavos' flare ability was revealed when emily died. that's a serious question. do you believe that. because he would have had to miss 1. the flip and 2. all the discussion that followed regarding the flare ability, which involved multiple town players talking about it (although he only mentioned AE talking about it as a 'slip') this, to me, reads like an attempt to distance from AE that got greedy.

author=LockeZ
author=Cap_H
I'm afraid this game could be solved or almost solved via claims.
Remember when we did FF8 mafia and nobody was Quistis? I'm somehow reminded of that game.

Ayla, Lucca and/or Marle might just not exist in this game, in which case we will have to actually figure out who scum is. If all seven main characters are town roles, that leaves two scum and two vanilla town, so we can just lynch everyone who doesn't role claim and win by the end of day 4. Unless scum has a second extra night kill in addition to Lavos's fire spell (which apparently already got used up, and she can't use it again anyway because she'll be dead at the end of the day today), or a Life spell, or some other power that alters the number of kills per day.

I don't know how much I like this setup if all we have to do to win is role claim. Which will absolutely end up being the case if there are 6 publicly known power roles left and 9 players left, and presumably (hopefully) only 1 scum left.

But if Muffle/Magus is scum, or if one or more characters don't exist as a player role, then we could still potentially lose even if scum has no powers left to use. So I don't think I'm in "stop caring about the game because we automatically win" mode just yet. Though I'm closer than is comfortable.


MORE SETUP SPEC INSTEAD OF PLAYING PARTY GAME. lockez is not trying to find scum. he is not interested in finding scum. he is only interested in surviving. to that end, he is hopping on perceived 'easy' votes (caph, lizardman) and staying there while endlessly talking about the setup in order to blend in. you, and by you, I mean fomar, are enabling this by entertaining it and not killing him.

https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/25137/?post=903769#post903769
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/25137/?post=903775#post903775

those r just more posts that are setup speculation and nothing else that I have nothing else to say anything about.
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
oops fomar voted him. lizardman put your vote back. tonight we dine on meats. also I forgot

author=LockeZ
I don't know how much I like this setup if all we have to do to win is role claim. Which will absolutely end up being the case if there are 6 publicly known power roles left and 9 players left, and presumably (hopefully) only 1 scum left.


this is scum frustration over not having an out
"ok does anyone actually believe that lockez missed that lavos' flare ability was revealed when emily died. that's a serious question. do you believe that."

I-It's true! I don't believe it! I even said I didn't trust that he missed that but was unsure if it was just a slip up and didn't wanna be an ass and lynch a slip up. ;_; Cave pointed out everything I wanted to but couldn't conform words. And more.

Point has been made, I'm happy with my vote.

#Lynch LockeZ

Anyways, now that I'm past the overdramatic shit because I feel stupid for overanalyzing my... overanalyzing. I'm gonna be upset if LockeZ flips town.
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
author=LockeZ
When using a day action, I will make it public in my next votecount that a day action has been used, but not what action or by whom.
This hasn't actually happened yet, right? So scum didn't learn that Frog was a safe claim from a day power, at least.

And randomly fakeclaiming Frog without knowing it's safe seems pointlessly dangerous.

I guess it's possible that Frog is just a scum role; that honestly didn't occur to me until Fomar suggested it. That would be weird though. And in Jeroen's last two heavily themed games - Avalan mafia and Game of Thrones Mafia - all the scummy characters were scum. Well, everyone in Game of Thrones is kind of scummy, but all the scum characters in that game were members of Joffrey's court. So I think Frog is a legit town claim.


you can see he doesn't care about it here even when this post leads to the same conclusion. reality had not yet set in
I just want to admit I didn't use conform the correct way and I'm upset.
didnt lockez steamroll towards Cap at the beginning of the game? If scum know who each other are, this could be a good way to try and convince us that they're at least on "opposite sides" right off the bat.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
lockez is just posting about the setup, avoiding talking about players, and feigning ignorance over stuff no one could have possibly missed (actually impossible.) im going to post a giant case since i see no momentum.

This should be obvious, but I missed the list of Lavos's powers because it was inside of a hide tag for some reason. I don't feel like missing something that was intentionally hidden from my view is "literally impossible."

So if you want a scum read from me right now, it's probably going to be Cavedog actually. Earlier I couldn't decide if he was acting super towny or completely garbage. But none of his one-sentence posts are actually going anywhere and a lot of them bother me because they seem designed to throw suspicion on people while avoiding explanations.

For example, he quoted a demonlord5000 post and said that "demonlord's posts from here-forward don't look too great" but didn't give any explanation as to why he felt that was true, and didn't quote or describe any of demonlord's later posts. That vote against Fomar was definitely questionable, because Fomar had said that he believed the town power roles were equivalent to core CT characters, and that's something scum would pick up on if that's information they had too (though at this point I don't know if it's actually true or not). So maybe demonlord saw that and thought Fomar was likely to have a power role. But after going through the rest of demonlord's posts after that, I can't really find anything else that looks bad. So Cavedog's comment there looks weird and bad to me, like he's trying to make something out to be bigger than it really is. And frankly the only reason I even noticed that other stuff about demonlord's vote is because Cavedog pointed out that post... but Cavedog didn't say any of that stuff. I think Cavedog was just hoping someone else would point it out, so he wouldn't have to take credit for throwing shade on demonlord when he turns out to actually be town. Which is why I think it's more likely to be a meaningless error, and I think demonlord is innocent and Cavedog is much scum.

Another point: the bit about me not seeing the list of Lavos's powers is classic misdirection. I don't feel like pretending to do that would even make sense for scum. What would their goal be exactly? To hope that literally every single other player also missed it? Cave doesn't care whether it makes sense or not though, it's just something he can point at and say "Look, he did this thing that isn't normal, GET HIM" and hope that at least one person falls for it and starts thinking more suspiciously of me. Or that it at least distracts us from actually scumhunting for another few hours.

He also keeps out throwing out stupid bullshit posts like "my joke got deleted. anyway voting my friend is a scumtell" and "i'm looking at the meme content in muffle's posts, and let me say: i'm convinced. confirmed town always protect" which seem to me to be factory-designed to make him look like he wasn't being serious with his votes against me, so he can avoid suspicion later when I flip town. He is banking on the fact that people don't expect him to take the game seriously, in order to avoid taking responsibility for his actions, while trying to lead people against the most dangerous town player he can. Half the players have role claimed, and everyone seems to agree that psy is town, so he can either attack me, cap_h, or someone who doesn't typically contribute to town's case (muffle/lizard/demonlord). Apparently he's picked me.

Also, if it seems like I'm reading too much into his posts, that's because this read on Cavedog is longer than everything Cavedog has said in the entire game. He is just making random one-sentence jabs and hoping your own brain will fill in the reasoning with whatever you want it to be. He isn't actually contributing anything.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well you can ignore the part where I said Cavedog hadn't posted anything all game, because I spent so long writing my post that he actually said something. The rest of it is still true though.
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
too late bud i called shotgun. not surprised that you suddenly suspect the person that's been calling you out all day though.
author=LockeZ
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
lockez is just posting about the setup, avoiding talking about players, and feigning ignorance over stuff no one could have possibly missed (actually impossible.) im going to post a giant case since i see no momentum.
This should be obvious, but I missed the list of Lavos's powers because it was inside of a hide tag for some reason. I don't feel like missing something that was intentionally hidden from my view is "literally impossible."

So if you want a scum read from me right now, it's probably going to be Cavedog actually. Earlier I couldn't decide if he was acting super towny or completely garbage. But none of his one-sentence posts are actually going anywhere and a lot of them bother me because they seem designed to throw suspicion on people while avoiding explanations.

For example, he quoted a demonlord5000 post and said that "demonlord's posts from here-forward don't look too great" but didn't give any explanation as to why he felt that was true, and didn't quote or describe any of demonlord's later posts. That vote against Fomar was definitely questionable, because Fomar had said that he believed the town power roles were equivalent to core CT characters, and that's something scum would pick up on if that's information they had too (though at this point I don't know if it's actually true or not). So maybe demonlord saw that and thought Fomar was likely to have a power role. But after going through the rest of demonlord's posts after that, I can't really find anything else that looks bad. So Cavedog's comment there looks weird and bad to me, like he's trying to make something out to be bigger than it really is. And frankly the only reason I even noticed that other stuff about demonlord's vote is because Cavedog pointed out that post... but Cavedog didn't say any of that stuff. I think Cavedog was just hoping someone else would point it out, so he wouldn't have to take credit for throwing shade on demonlord when he turns out to actually be town. Which is why I think it's more likely to be a meaningless error, and I think demonlord is innocent and Cavedog is much scum.

Another point: the bit about me not seeing the list of Lavos's powers is classic misdirection. I don't feel like pretending to do that would even make sense for scum. What would their goal be exactly? To hope that literally every single other player also missed it? Cave doesn't care whether it makes sense or not though, it's just something he can point at and say "Look, he did this thing that isn't normal, GET HIM" and hope that at least one person falls for it and starts thinking more suspiciously of me. Or that it at least distracts us from actually scumhunting for another few hours.

He also keeps out throwing out stupid bullshit posts like "my joke got deleted. anyway voting my friend is a scumtell" and "i'm looking at the meme content in muffle's posts, and let me say: i'm convinced. confirmed town always protect" which seem to me to be factory-designed to make him look like he wasn't being serious with his votes against me, so he can avoid suspicion later when I flip town. He is banking on the fact that people don't expect him to take the game seriously, in order to avoid taking responsibility for his actions, while trying to lead people against the most dangerous town player he can. Half the players have role claimed, and everyone seems to agree that psy is town, so he can either attack me, cap_h, or someone who doesn't typically contribute to town's case (muffle/lizard/demonlord). Apparently he's picked me.

Also, if it seems like I'm reading too much into his posts, that's because this read on Cavedog is longer than everything Cavedog has said in the entire game. He is just making random one-sentence jabs and hoping your own brain will fill in the reasoning with whatever you want it to be. He isn't actually contributing anything.


Didn't you *just* vote for me? Suddenly "if anyone is scum, it's Cavedog"? Thought your plan was that I was scum?
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
in addition, i had a joke here that got deleted and have upgraded lizardman princess to ultimate confirmed town mk. II in my 5 page excel spreadsheet.
Considering Re-#Lynching LockeZ for washy suspicion.
Also, funny how once I #Cancelled on LockeZ, suddenly, LockeZ just pointed to someone else is the "king scum".
What, now that I cancelled my vote of you, I'm not the EZ target anymore? ;)
OldPat
OrudoPatto, kisama!
5107
I found some of the reasonings for Cave to go "LockeZ hunting" a bit stretched. Fillers and "jumping on bandwagons" posts are to be expected. LockeZ pretty much explained all of its points anyway, so...

I mean, I've never 100% suspected Lizard, and she was far from being a possible lynch for me (do to her being new and all), but I can see why someone could think she might've been a possible scum. Same thing goes for Muffle. Suspicions on her changed as the game progressed, but initially it wasn't just LockeZ who thought she could've been scum-aligned.

I mean you even pointed out at one of LockeZ's posts being a "waste of words", and it was a post that had a travel vote in it.

... Having said that. I do agree with demonlord that we may be looking at an AE+LockeZ scum pair. LockeZ missing the lavos ability and AE suggesting lynching him (I don't remember this part, it happened?) could be the result of a thought out strategy to steer attention away from him.

But that's the thing... that alone was enough if that's what happened. Why digging up all these points?
OldPat
OrudoPatto, kisama!
5107
YOU GUYS WRITE TOO FAST
OldPat
OrudoPatto, kisama!
5107
*pointed at one of LockeZ's posts
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
in addition, i had a joke here that got deleted and have upgraded lizardman princess to ultimate confirmed town mk. II in my 5 page excel spreadsheet.

*sunglasses emoji* B)
author=OldPat
YOU GUYS WRITE TOO FAST


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!
Missing Lavo's power thing is a nulltell. It means nothing. I was actually pretty convinced LockeZ was town because of it at one point, although I've realized it's possible he could've not realized it was now public information because he had already known it though.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I particularly like the idiocy of this comment:

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_SCUM
more setup spec based on...moderator meta? leading to vote on most vulnerable player because duh

Implying that voting to lynch the person who looks like the best person to vote for is somehow a bad thing to do, rofl. He uses the word "vulnerable" to make it sound bad, but what that word actually means is "lynchable," and the reason Lizardman_Princess was lynchable was because she was playing badly and not contributing and generally not doing anything to convince anyone that she was town.

She's still kind of doing that, but Cavedog is being manipulative and disingenuous, and that bothers me way more.

#cancel lynch
#lynch CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK