[MAFIA] IS THIS WEREWOLF?

Posts

Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3945
I'm also confused as to the exact way voting works, but Trihan should have had 4 votes: LockeZ, demon, dudesoft and me.

I don't agree with demon saying Psy "caused a nolynch" either. That's not my point, and could be clever miswording of my argument.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3945
author=psy_wombats
But, yeah, please also keep in mind that the confirmed seer was around during day's end and made the exact same choice that I did, not to mention if I wanted a nokill all I'd have to do was disappear at the end of the day. (someone showing up last minute to kill demon would also be fine but no one bit... I wonder why that is~)


Then again, this is pure whataboutism, not to mention nobody showed up to hammer Trihan either.
Wait really? You're definitely not counted on the votes at EOD, so it appeared to me to be a tie 3v3 demonlord vs Trihan, and I assumed plurality voting so anyone could've popped in last minute and swung it. If it's majority voting then I guess both my EOD actions and your missing vote are irrelevant, but under plurality voting then Trihan should be dead.

(I pm'd Muffle re: plurality/majority but no answer yet)
and I'd say that's a pretty clear rebuttal of "only scum would be okay with nokill yesterday"
I knew I missed someone during that vote!

To clarify, what I just sent Psy:

author=Muffle
I didn't even think about that lol. LockeZ told me to put rules like what happened during a tie, that's why I put that. I didn't even think about the fact a tie wouldn't matter if hammer was needed to vote. I didn't mean to cause confusion.


I'm really sorry about the confusion, I'm not the smartest and didn't even look back at what made sense or not. >.>

Do I need to change the time of end of day btw, some people had trouble making it to end day last time it seemed and it won't be a problem to change it for me.

Confirmed via moderator we're using majority voting, so no one could've died yesterday regardless.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
Oh
author=psy_wombats
@LockeZ: That Muffle had a rule that ties were nullified makes me believe it was plurality vote vs majority vote, ie, by removing my demonlord vote I could've killed Trihan.


Oh, that makes sense, I guess. Though... my big middle paragraph still stands. I do think nolynching was probably fine.

author=Jeroen_Sol
In a 2-wolf 1-sorcerer setup we get 1 mislynch and 1 nolynch in any order. The correct order is then the one that gives us the most information fastest, which is by flipping an unconfirmed player on day 1 because it might not be a mislynch, and only nolynching on MYLO afterwards. Nolynching while confirmed town are alive gives no information whatsoever.

Did you forget that power roles exist? Because those are more important than information. You could have killed a bodyguard (or even a second seer). Nolynching also gives us one more town voting in the votes, which isn't a big deal but I guess it also isn't nothing.

If there are twelve hours left then sure, lynch someone even with an even number of people. Get one vote away and leave it that way for most of the day, and you'll get to see them either claim or fake-claim. But with half an hour left, they can't do that. If they have a power role you're going to kill them without giving them a chance to claim and stop you. Last-minute lynches are only a good idea when you actually have a reason to do them - if you don't, I often feel like they're unnecessarily dangerous.

Are you allowed to think nolynching was a poor tactical decision? Yeah, totally. Was it such a bad decision that only scum would do it? No way in hell.
about 21 Hours Left and 20 Minutes

psy_wombats 3 - Jeroen_Sol, psy_wombats, demonlord5000, dudesoft
demonlord5000 1 - psy_wombats
With 9 remaining it takes 5 to lynch.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
author=Muffle
Do I need to change the time of end of day btw, some people had trouble making it to end day last time it seemed and it won't be a problem to change it for me.

I only missed the end of the day because I was an idiot and thought there was another entire day left. I guess it's pretty early for people on the west coast of the US though, so if anyone lives there, then two hours later probably wouldn't be bad. I don't know if anyone playing actually does, though.
Nolynch followed by basically confirmed town NK is not very helpful :/

Honestly I'm not happy with Fomar or Psy for not changing votes to get a lynch. I also find Muffle's vote count just before EOD to be...suspicious, I see Fomar on there twice and no Jeroen, can we get an updated one?

I do think the "I'm not willing to lynch Trihan" thing is kinda crap. It kind of looks to me like Psy was trying to buddy up to Trihan here:

author=psy_wombats
Also no-kill wouldn't be bad today (would prefer it to Trihan dying). We have an even number of players, a seer in the open, and presumably a bodyguard, soo


author=psy_wombats
Yeah I'm not willing to kill Trihan, would rather nokill. One of the Trihan voters has to be around to make anything else work.


I don't know if this is Psy just protecting scumbuddy, or he felt like the heat was on and he want to get Trihan in with him. I don't see how avoiding a lynch on someone who is /not/ confirmed town, to the point that you think nolynch is better, is a towny thing to do either way.

#lynch Psy

author=LockeZ
Hmm, he really was the seer then.

Sorry for not being around the entire last 24 hours of day one. I am apparently incapable of understanding the concept of time.

I actually think no-lynching on day one was a good call. Like psy said, there were an even number of people. Losing one player is only a big deal because they were the seer. It doesn't actually bring us any more days closer to the end of the game. We lose on day five when it's 1v2 instead of 2v2, now. Or on day six when it's 0v1 instead of 1v1. But on the same day as before. It's not ideal but it's better than mislynching. And with 7 unknown players and no real leads, we probably would have mislynched.

And I think we do have more info today.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks psy is "to blame" for day one being a nolynch since we were three votes short of a lynch, and the top two targets were tied, and he was voting for one of those two targets. That blame feels really suspicious to me. Like it's intentionally creating a false narrative in order to try to create an early train against someone.


What information do we have? I mean I guess we confirmed Fomar was seer, but was that really in doubt?
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3945
Trihan had already claimed Vanilla and was around for EoD.

But I'm going to reread demon. He's done a few small things I didn't like, and if it isn't Psy, then there could be more there.
author=LockeZ
author=Jeroen_Sol
In a 2-wolf 1-sorcerer setup we get 1 mislynch and 1 nolynch in any order. The correct order is then the one that gives us the most information fastest, which is by flipping an unconfirmed player on day 1 because it might not be a mislynch, and only nolynching on MYLO afterwards. Nolynching while confirmed town are alive gives no information whatsoever.
Did you forget that power roles exist? Because those are more important than information. You could have killed a bodyguard (or even a second seer). Nolynching also gives us one more town voting in the votes, which isn't a big deal but I guess it also isn't nothing.


But we're at one less town vote than we had D1 now. Of course mislynch is worse than lynching true, but that's true every day. I've never heard anyone argue we should only ever lynch confirmed scum, particularly after the cop was killed.

Even if follow-the-cop was a possible argument D1, we're in a flat-out worse position now than in D1.

I also don't think only scum would do it, but Psy was specifically saying that he wouldn't help with a Trihan lynch, not that the math made nolynch better than lynch.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3945
author=AlaskanEmily
What information do we have? I mean I guess we confirmed Fomar was seer, but was that really in doubt?


Actually, for what it's worth, I did doubt that overnight because he did the same thing as Psy did. I thought he might have been drawing out the seer instead.
My argument for Trihan as town: read https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/25302/?post=909550#post909550 and https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/25302/?post=909551#post909551 and tell me Trihan looks like scum. The first post isn't sound, but it's the second where he's actively reassessing what scum's goals are. I don't see scum doing that. Scum posting about their own train of thought posts garbage like "I wonder if scum could be doing x, no wait they could also be doing y -- we just can't know" vs "I was wrong, scum is definitely doing this." He'd been looking townish all day before that as well.

So if I'm 95% confident Trihan is town, and a nokill is a decent play, I'm picking nokill. I also actively bailed out Odd when it was clear he was town as well.

If Trihan's scum then I accept blame for throwing the game but otherwise I feel pretty much 100% of my calls are justified here (and then I'll blame Jeroen)
I'm back now. The only real issue for me with eod is I'm on central time and I work most of the day, I get off at 4:30, so I usually won't even be here until 5 my time which is 4 hours after eod.

Looking at the new posts maybe the lynch couldn't of been pulled off anyways, but that also wasn't known at the time. I still don't like psy's logic though. As for my earlier argument maybe saying he caused a mislynch wasn't the best wording, but he was clearly preferred no lynch over lynching trihan. It's kind of the same thing, but I guess you could argue the context is a little different.
I missed the latest psy post so I need to read that one.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3945
Hmm.

First off, #Cancel while Psy is at -1.

But come on, 95%? If you're town, then you just want him to be town at this point just as much as I want the two of you to be scum.

Anyway, I'm coming around a bit and it could be demon. Looking back, he's misworded my argument and latched onto that once, and worded his vote in a way that escapes blame another time. I don't think the whole Odd exchange means much, but those things are worrisome.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
author=AlaskanEmily
What information do we have? I mean I guess we confirmed Fomar was seer, but was that really in doubt?

I mean there was no particular reason to disbelieve him, but there was also no particular reason to believe him. So I admit that I actually didn't put much stock into his claim until I saw him get killed and flip.

We also have all of the day one votes, plus we'll have all of the day two votes at the end of the day today. Having an extra day of vote information is going to be useful in the long run even if we don't know today what any of it means.

But, like, we also have this conversation happening now about psy. We have the accusations against him, and his reactions to those accusations. We have the three accusations against Fomar yesterday, at least one of which was probably scum making things up. Other stuff will probably also happen today, which we will talk about. That's all useful info we can work with. More useful than a list of who voted for someone who is town, IMO. I personally care about why people vote (or don't vote) more than I care about who they vote for.
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
6309
I guess my lynch of Psy didn't count because I typo'd?
AtiyaTheSeeker
In all fairness, bird shrapnel isn't as deadly as wood shrapnel
5514
Sorry for the wait, was out all day. So, uhhhh... Fomar is dead, and was the seer. Makes sense for his avatar, but kind of a big loss for town. Looking over the situation thus far?

I do feel like, with no real evidence to believe him or not, I agree with Locke about Fomar. While I would've initially preferred pacifism for day one, it also bit town in the ass. For the accusations against Psy, I won't say that the possibility of Trihan being scum isn't there. As we need a near-group consensus to lynch, I want to hold off on punching a werenaz-- er, putting Psy under the axe.

Some of us also haven't responded yet; I'd like to see someone else comment before I decide on joining in or not?