SHERIFF MAFIA (GAME OVER)

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@demon: To elaborate why I don't think this is suspicious, I'd guess it's a rider on some towns' roles that allow them to win as a faction, so scum can declare themselves and run out the sheriff if the "kill scum or Gourd to win" town members outnumber the "kill scum to win" members. It'd be a good setup gimmick and explain why town has PRs on top of the existence of the sheriff.

(potentially Fomar also had a "town that could also kill Gourd" alignment and he was indeed fake town)
AtiyaTheSeeker
In all fairness, bird shrapnel isn't as deadly as wood shrapnel
5514
Hmph. Maybe I was wrong about you, Cave. I really don't know who the real threat is right now. Admittedly, I went with Psy before Cave because everyone else saw suspicion enough to vote on him. I can see Cave just being gung-ho about his accusations.

Insofar as Cave having a similar alt win condition as I? Could be. Like I said, it's unlikely to pull off. I could also see Emily modifying old roles, swapping town-scum dynamics for the Wild West thematic grit.

My vote still stands, but I'm willing to debate it. Folks, what do you think about Cave?

...also, fun tier list.
I thought it was fine. It was the early stage of the odd vs cave choice, and in a choice between a confirmed role, and a role that you found suspicious elements in, it did make sense at that point. It looks like libby never did post after that. I could see her sticking with it after ozzy's claim. I didn't really look at how much time passed between that and odds hammer so I should probably do that.

I don't think fomar had that anti sheriff alignment. It looked to me that his whole role was revealed on death, even the part where his alignment wasn't supposed to flip which is the part I found strange.

Altiya, what do you think of cave being a duelist on top of having your role?
Looks like about 22 hours if I'm looking at that right. Laying a vote down and having 22 hours pass with no other comment on someone who flipped scum I can see as a suspicious point.
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
author=psy_wombats
(potentially Fomar also had a "town that could also kill Gourd" alignment and he was indeed fake town)


My alignment is still town. The alt-wincon would make you think this was a 3p role, but, somehow, it isn't.

BEEPBEEP BEEP ALERT ALERT SOME DUMB SHIT'S ABOUT TO BE SAID

He probably didn't have it. The reason I think this is because his role name was Wandering Gun, Atiya's is Gun for Hire, and mine is Renegade. The latter two describe a kind of willingness to turn mercenary (Apparently renegade used to be a very similar to betray) but Wandering Gun doesn't really convey the same sentiment.
AtiyaTheSeeker
In all fairness, bird shrapnel isn't as deadly as wood shrapnel
5514
I still feel Fomar was legit town. If anything, helps support the idea that town players can have abilities to turncoat. As for Cave having my ability, it may be an overlay onto other roles. Without the ability to finish off Gourd, I am essentially vanilla.

#cancel

Less than 24 hours left. I will be awake around the 12-hour mark. Ozzy, Liberty, what are your sides of the story?
Cap_H
DIGITAL IDENTITY CRISIS
6615
#cancel

I'm hammering Liberty Valance.
Reading back now but the revelation alone that multiple townies can win at the end by lynching me feels like a prank on me!
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
author=Gourd_Clae
Liberty got on the odd train fast which I don't think she really had any reason to do.
so, to be clear, the reason you get on that train fast is so that people can't say you weren't on the train after he get executed. And, you can say this is conceited or w/e idgaf, but, I think 9/10 in a situation like that, Odd is gonna be the one getting executed, not me. this idea

You basically got it. I thought both of you were about as likely to die as the other. I want to say Liberty would have thought the same. You're right it's far from definitive though. That's why I wouldn't mind lynching her today.
author=demonlord5000
Would be kind of funny if everyone had it.

WOULD IT
author=psy_wombats
author=Gourd_Clae
I think the role hinting thing is a nulltell bc she has done it as town before.

I'm referring to this post: https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/25509/?post=915329#post915329
Nobody expressed any interest in Liberty's role name, and she had already declared that she was vanilla. So it doesn't make any sense to kinda sorta Oddrabbit-style hint at her role name. I like cave's theory that she rolecop'd Ozzy last night to get that info.

I think she would do that even if nobody expressed interest as town BUT the more I think about it, the more I think she would only do this if she actually had an interesting role.

So, yeah, in the end I think I agree with you that her behavior here is weird!
I don't really care what you think my playstyle is like, because you're completely wrong but whatever. My playstyle is literally "however I feel like playing at the time who gives a shit". You won't believe that anyway, at least until you see me flip town, so let's just forget it and move on to something with more bite.

I have a case to make.

The reason i jumped on odd is because he said that there were no vanilla in the game. I jumped on that shit and called it out right away because I am vanilla town. Now, this is important - both aspects. That I jumped on that straight away on day 1, and that he - as confirmed scum - thought that throwing out 'there's no vanilla people' was a good line.

What can we take from this?
- There's no vanilla scum. As far as he knew, scum all have powers.
- He didn't know what town vanilla note said.

Why is this important?
- Cave, as a way to discredit my and ozzy's claims of vanilla town, posited that *ahem* "mafia must have gotten the vanilla town text and that's why they know" (not a quote. it's 2am, I can't be fucked to get the exact quote but it was basically that)

- Cave later then tried to state that we must have gotten that information during the night phase using a power... EVEN THOUGH I POSTED THAT SHIT ON DAY ZERO, before powers were in use.

How does this read to me?
- Cave has tried to force-lynch me from the start of today, for no fucking reason at all. He's pushed the idea that I'm scum, and kept doing so, and everyone is dancing to his chaotic stupid tune because lol let's kill libby that's fun lol.
- Cave has tried to discredit the vanilla claim though it's crystal clear that
1) ODD DID NOT KNOW THAT VANILLA EXISTED IN THE GAME (thus the slip up that made me jump on him) meaning that NO, SCUM DID NOT GET VANILLA TOWN TEXT
2) Ozzy backed me up on the cowboy being Vanilla text thing

Now, I don't know if Cave is scum or just acting a fucking moron, but frankly, he's definitely acting the 'third imposter' and deserves lynching just for that bullshit. And the fact that his voice is the only one that seems to be listened to.


I'd also like to point out that I said exactly why I voted odd when it happened, just three posts down from his post about his power. At that point only two people were on Odd for lynch, and Cave was not one of them (he'd cancelled his vote at that point). There were as many people on Cave as there were on Odd and frankly, if I were scum I would have known that (if cave is town) voting cave out was the best idea. Or unvoting scum ally so he didn't actually die. Or pointing at anyone else or not voting at all (since a bunch of people got away with not voting and haven't been pushed about why they didn't vote).

I stuck with the vote I placed because Odd's post read wrong to me and I know for fact that I am vanilla town. I alluded to that shit because WE WERE ALL FUCKING ROLEPLAYING AND BEING DUMB AT THE TIME, jesus fucking christ. I thought it'd be cute. Fuck me for playing along a little and trying to have fun.

whateve
Huh, actually, one person was counted on the lynch for odd when I voted for him. Emily completely missed psy's vote on him (which got moved later one to someone else) so technically there wasn't a bandwagon on him at all when I 'got on'. I saw no reason to change my vote as I was pretty sure his slip up meant he was scum, and the more he said, the more sure I was that he was most likely to be.

CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
so, again, I didn't cancel my vote on Odd, interesting framing.

- Cave, as a way to discredit my and ozzy's claims of vanilla town, posited that *ahem* "mafia must have gotten the vanilla town text and that's why they know" (not a quote. it's 2am, I can't be fucked to get the exact quote but it was basically that)

- Cave later then tried to state that we must have gotten that information during the night phase using a power... EVEN THOUGH I POSTED THAT SHIT ON DAY ZERO, before powers were in use.


the main problem with your case, besides the other parts that didn't happen, is that these things also didn't happen. The post you're talking about answers something Psy was saying, doesn't even say the possibility is likely, and actually impugns Ozzy.

any good mod will have the vanilla town role pm delivered to scum. now, this mod might be bad, we don't know, but rolecops also exist. people only started saying the vanilla town role name day 2. also noteworthy that ozzy never said it until after liberty.

as much as i like my liberty case and love killing liberty, killing ozzy may be wiser, as his ideas are really bad and he said something about voting me once.


also odd doesn't say the thing you're saying he said, but it's not a huge distinction. This doesn't imply that he thinks there are no vanilla town, nor does it imply that he thought all scum had powers.
author=oddRABBIT
I think what this implies is that nearly everyone has a power of some kind, dunno if I missed that in the rules text, or if I'm completely wrong. But yeah. Information.


anyway none of this was ever part of the case I made. My actual case, repeated for the fourth time now, is that I think it would be likely for scum to get on Odd early. You can say you wouldn't do that, that's fine, and also not a counterargument. The other half of my case is that your reason for voting Odd after he claimed a power role was pretty strange, because it was entirely based on "He thinks there are more power roles than not in the game." This is not an assumption that indicates alignment either way, so choosing to stick a vote on him and leave it there to the exclusion of everything else remains weird. The third half of my case is your disingenuous framing of almost everything that's happened in the game. The fourth half of my case is repeatedly melting down instead of voting ozzy or something.

CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
fifth half is the "duofacto" of didn't pick a symbol + good mislynch
OzzyTheOne
Future Ruler of Gam Mak
4295
Ok, so the revelation of Atiya and CAVE having a separate win condition sounds very plausible to me. I do not think that CAVE is scum, however while I understand that he wants to win, I do not like how he is willing to let town lose by myslynching Gourd together with Atiya at a later point. I would be willing to vote him just out of a sense of self-preservation for town and how no one else is catching onto that is weird to me.

As for Libby, I think she's town because of the whole vanilla cowboy thing. Maybe she is scum yes, but I'm slightly more willing to believe she is just desperate town flailing around (which isn't really good either and actually does make her a good candidate for lynching)

I'm still onto psy, but if another train builds up, I will support it. Also, CAVE makes a very valid point in that Demonlord has been going under the radar hard until now and barely anyone has noticed.
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
PERSONALLY, while Liberty flipping either town or scum would both be extremely funny and just, I would rather be executing Ozzy right now. The "rolecop" idea is not very good anymore because it seems like Ozzy is the only other claimed vanilla, and he claimed day 1. That would mean using your rolecop on a vanilla on purpose. Which is...a...Chad move?

Ozzy's posting has been really weird in a way I..well. just look at it. But also, he only says the name of the vanilla town role after Liberty does and turned on Odd for the exact same (bad) reason.
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
On sunny days, I go out walking
1142
well, Ozzy just said he's willing to help me kill gourd (not sure, skimmed over the post) so nevermind, he's clear
OzzyTheOne
Future Ruler of Gam Mak
4295
Also CAVE, why exactly do you want to see me dead? I didn't quite catch your reasoning.
OzzyTheOne
Future Ruler of Gam Mak
4295
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
well, Ozzy just said he's willing to help me kill gourd (not sure, skimmed over the post) so nevermind, he's clear


I did not, I said I was willing to kill you because if you get Gourd killed there's a high chance that town loses, while you win. And I'd rather town win than just you and Atiya (and potentially scum) win.