2021 MISAOS - THOUGHTS, IDEAS, PLANS

Posts

author=LordBlueRouge
author=Sgt M
I see a 100-download minimum causing way more problems than solutions, partly because this would heavily weigh Misao eligibility towards games that get released in January or February, and less towards games that are released towards the end of the year which haven't had enough time to garner attention. Then people will just stop releasing games after September or so and we'll end up with winter content droughts.

Also, as depressing as this might sound, a game getting 100 downloads is an increasingly difficult goal these days. And it could lead to devs finding ways to artificially inflate their download count, which would lead to age-old buzz farming.
It's not a game with a 100 downloads. it's a game below 100 downloads that's eligible for this award.
If the game has 1 download, it's eligible,
if the game has 99 downloads, it's eligible.

BeetleNinja currently has only 86 downloads since it's release on October 14th 2020.

Wow geez, I completely misread. I'll take my lumps for that one.
author=Liberty
Sleeping Beetle, Hitting Ninja

Yes! you get it now! XD Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was also a sleeper hit!
But don't call it that, please keep it as:

The BeetleNinja/Sleeper Hit Award
A really great game you played this year that has a download count under 100 - a game so good, It's a secret to everyone.

…because like the kentona award, there are people born after the year this movie came out who aren't going to understand this reference. Misao categories only work really well when they're very clear about their purpose.

The Everlasting Journey Award is a great name for an award, because no only is it named after an rpgmaker game, but it's a play-on-words award for a game with the most content to offer.

The Star Stealing Prince Award is also another great name for an award, because not only is it also named after an rpgmaker game. But it's named after an rpgmaker game with the best original assets that year that kind of stole the show. It's literally "a star who stole the show", I love that name and that's why it works so well as an award, because it's intention is very clear and easy to remember.

I want to keep it as The BeetleNinja/SleeperHit Award because the joke is that, Ninjas are so good at hiding themselves and keeping secrets. Well, this was a great game so good at hiding itself, it became a sleeper hit. Getting great names for these awards is almost like coming up with band names. It needs to be very clear about what it's intensions are in 3 - 4 words or less.

author=unity
But this could also be a problem. It could bias this award towards games that specifically released late in the year. Would Beetle Ninja have even qualified for the award if it had released in January?

Here's the thing though. Beetle Ninja's gamepage was actually published in February 2020. 16-bitking wrote about it, he constantly referred to it on his twitter as his next big game after WTMGAN; he even made several trailers for BeetleNinja before it's October release - nothing, no one knew about this game on RMN. It was a gamepage hiding in plain sight for the majority of 2020 - The fact that it even got nominated at all and it got the turn out that it did, I think is a miracle - and the whole point of this award is to not work so hard to make games like these get noticed.

I'm willing to compromise and let it be below 150 downloads and instead of below 100 since 300 downloads on RMN is the new normal, but this category needs to be very specific and similar to the short game award, and has to have that number in it in order for it to work - if we call it the overlooked game award, it'll be like what happened with the kentona award because everyone thinks their favourite game is overlooked.

You guys have to trust me on this. I haven't let you down yet.
I've looked at the results and carefully studied how people use the misao. Keep it as the:

The BeetleNinja/Sleeper Hit Award
A really great game you played this year that has a download count below 150 - a game so good, It's a secret to everyone.

If it doesn't work and it's total disaster you can blame it all on me when 2022 comes.
But just give me a shot here, please.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
IDK that anyone is specifically forbidding you do this, or even has the power to forbid, unless it's Liberty. You're the one in charge, you can just say, "Screw y'all, I'll show you all!!!" and do it anyway. Then either we have egg on our faces, or it doesn't work out like you intended. No big loss either way.
iddalai
RPG Maker 2k/2k3 for life, baby!!
1194
Why not set a date limit for games that can be nominated?
Per example (and this is only an example!), games uploaded to RMN after September could not be nominated for that year's Misaos, and would instead be eligible for next year's Misao nominations.

This is because it seems unfair for a game that was uploaded in October to compete in attention with a game that was released in January.
With the external website voting this could be done (except for the nomination part... ugh).

Looking at the categories, I think we have quite a lot and they cover a lot of ground in all the serious aspects of GAM MAK. Maybe those serious ones (graphics, music, writing, etc) should be named seriously, for clarity (Best graphics, Best music, etc).

Some ideas for new categories or changes to existing ones:

- Best/Most interesting/Fun gameplay - Sure, there's "How the Hell Did They Do That?", but with that title I immediately think it's for games making something incredible with their engine and that doesn't mean it's enjoyable to play.

- "Summoner of Sounds" - should probably be split into 2 categories, one for music and one for sound.

- "The Dark Souls of RMN" - should probably be split into 2 categories, one for challenge and one for puzzles. I also believe that if we are going to name the categories with references (instead of my earlier "naming them seriously" suggestion), then the references should be taken from classic RPG Maker games instead of commercial AAA games.

- "The kentona Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence" - I admit I don't understand what this is all about.

- Best Title Screen

- Best Menu System (how it looks, rather than it being a custom one)

- Best Character (design & writing)

- Best game! (one category for each of the most popular engines: rm2k3, XP, ACE VX, etc)

I also think some more joke categories should be added to keep things light, even if no games are nominated for them (Lawsuit waiting to happen, that sort of thing).

These are only suggestions and maybe someone else can get some better idea from these.
While some look good on paper, in reality I think it would drown people in a lot of categories and spread the votes further.
Even if I really like some of these ideas...

author=psy_wombats
I've said this for a couple years now and I know it's not all that popular, but I think both of the main problems of 1) big, notable games getting nominated in every category and 2) categories not having enough entrants... would be solved by cutting down on the number of categories in general.

And now for something completely different! If the external curated voting doesn't work, why not give this a shot?
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=LordBlueRouge
If it doesn't work and it's total disaster you can blame it all on me when 2022 comes.
But just give me a shot here, please.

Very well, you've convinced me XD I'm all for giving it a shot and seeing what happens :D
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Well, even if this "Sleeper Hit" idea falls completely flat on it's face, I suppose it can't hurt to give the experiment a try. I'm more than a little curious to see what games people would nominate for it, and when they nominate.

However, I think it's worth reiterating that this is an award for what would otherwise be on the front page as a "Hidden Gem" slot. A really good/cool game that is being criminally underlooked. It can't just be any game that has less than 150 downloads across the entire year like this one XD!
author=Marrend
However, I think it's worth reiterating that this is an award for what would otherwise be on the front page as a "Hidden Gem" slot.
No it's not, because Beetleninja was never featured as a hidden gem, and it still went overlooked for the majority of the year.
This is why we need this new award. This new category will help fix that.

It is a category with a criteria similar to BeetleNinja's to help find other overlooked games like it on RMN.
It ultimately means less work for us at finding and promoting these games,
because there is now a category in place that helps encourages this.

That's why we need this new category.
It will work as intended.
Just give it a chance.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
I never said Beetle Ninja was featured/spotlighted as a Hidden Gem. I'm saying it very probably could have been. Like, as far as I know, the entire purpose of putting up a game as a "Hidden Gem" spotlight is to showcase a game that's neat/cool, yet has been entirely overlooked by the community. This is exactly what happened with Beetle Ninja until you started to campaign for it!

Look, I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm willing to give the category a chance. I just think "Hidden Gem" and this new category serve very similar purposes, and I'm totally okay with giving worthy, yet underlooked games, more exposure!
Beetle Ninja has been featured + won awards, I've pushed for Slimes a lot (got side front page'd before?) but the download counts don't increase much. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink seems really apt. Maybe the title or the screenshots somehow don't resonate or the main bulk of audience is just really into a certain kind of thing here. So even with eyes on something there's just not much you can do about it.

However I don't really see the Misaos as yet another front page promotion equivalent but more of a cultural legacy preservation thing. There are games that have won GOTY that people here have probably forgotten about but there's at least a list somewhere that has a record of them being relevant in a pocket of time (even if it's a subjective popularity ranking). Lot of archived games I've played I have no idea how they've been received or talked about or how they stacked up against games at the time. I know it being an internet historian's boon might not jazz people about these sorts of things but it's certainly better than nothing.

Point is I think it's really worth rethinking the purpose of the Misaos as less a promotion thingy and something that answers the question of "what was the discourse at the time?" and what distinguishes it from reviews: "how did the games at the time pit against each other?"

Like the idea that the Hidden Gem on the frontpage is just as good as a Sleeper Hit award misses the fact that there isn't really a Hidden Gem record or tag that's forever enshrined like the Misao list does. Does anyone remember what got a hidden gem thing in like 2015? I have no clue. There will be a lot of games left in the dust, but that happens with anything anyway, any game that RPGAddict doesn't review doesn't get a review. There's no solution other than to list every single game that came out this year (which kinda happens anyway in roundup threads). With or without a digital awards thingy games are entering a gladiator arena for attention regardless.

The problem eventually loops back around to: not enough people review or opine enough on games. But idk I get exhausted talking about this problem as it's been brought up every year.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I mean ultimately all the discussion doesn't matter unless people actually do something. Until any of these events or threads or whatever manifest it's just as useful as leaving the Misaos how they are.
I will put the sleeper hit in just as an experiment. We can at least afford to try.

idallai, we already have a set time - until end of December. Voting happens all January (with no nominations).

Also, light-hearted names fits the site and have been carried over as a kind of historical memory. Some things just live on as in-jokes and memes and it'd be a sad day to see them disappear.

Also, while I like the idea of smaller type categories, stuff like that doesn't really go well because people just vote whatever in them - a lot of people don't pay attention to things like title screens (you see them for all of 10 seconds).

We used to have a lot more Misaos but we've gradually winnowed them down because people just ignore some because 'I can't think of a game that fits that'. Stuff like puzzle/gameplay being combined into one category has worked better than both being separate.

That said, I'm not against the idea of some of these.

- I think we can combine punniest/trippiest into one category - Most Comedic, as both tend to be part of the other.

- Kentona award of excellence is very flexible so we can transition it to something else. I like the idea of commercial because it fits with the kentona mythos (he has a mythos now).

- An award for positive representation of diversity is a great idea! We get a lot of LGBTQ+ on the site thanks to the Pride Month events (and even outside of them) so it's something we can celebrate with.

- Animal award is staying mainly because why not? Games about animals! They're easy to tell apart. I might clear up the description for it, though.

- Instead of having it be below a certain set of downloads, perhaps just say 'low downloads/traction'. That way if a sleeper hit gets 101 downloads it doesn't get punted to the moon. We can curate from there.

- Thought - best game in a non-RM engine?
author=Liberty
I will put the sleeper hit in just as an experiment. We can at least afford to try.

Thank You❤

author=Liberty
- I think we can combine punniest/trippiest into one category - Most Comedic, as both tend to be part of the other.

Keep these categories permanent, but also separate. There's always going to be a funny game every year and there's always going to be a trippiest game every year. There may have been some overlap this year, but these categories are working as intended: BeetleNinja was actually pretty funny game. and I'm sure Weird and Unfortunate was also a very trippy game - do not change these categories we need them.

author=Liberty
- An award for positive representation of diversity is a great idea! We get a lot of LGBTQ+ on the site thanks to the Pride Month events (and even outside of them) so it's something we can celebrate with.

I really like this one, I really liked A Maned Lioness and want to see more games like it. This should also be permanent.

author=Liberty
- Animal award is staying mainly because why not? Games about animals! They're easy to tell apart. I might clear up the description for it, though.

+1 This category is working as intended. the problem with it is similar to the best event game award, which I've been meaning to touch upon later.

- Instead of having it be below a certain set of downloads, perhaps just say 'low downloads/traction'. That way if a sleeper hit gets 101 downloads it doesn't get punted to the moon. We can curate from there.

Yeah, I agree with what unity said, change it to below 150 to allow some breathing room. 300 is a the new healthy download number for RMN games. I'll admit it's going to be tricky this year, but I'm going to make it work.

Thought - best game in a non-RM engine?
Silver Night's Crusaders was a neat game. I really want to bring back the Lawsuit waiting to happen award, because there's always going to be a fan game of some sort being made on RMN. The way it was originally worded was too confusing, it needed to be more distinct, just call it:

Best Fan Game: The Lawsuit waiting to happen
The Best Fan Game of the year with the best use of rips

It just needs to be clear this is for fan games only. I like the fact that games like Day Dreaming Derpy was nominated for this award. This also could've been an award Moonsong could've easily won as well if it was here this year. Not only was it a great looking game. But how it was able to piece familiar resources together in order to create something new. I think is worthy of some merit - There wasn't just Romancing Saga 3 stuff in there, but Secret of Mana and King of Dragons. bring this award back, because there's always going to be a fan game.

There's still the problem of the RMN Event games and the misaos, but I'll get to that tomorrow.
We've talked about it already, but I want to make sure that we actually agreed to do something about it, in order to fix it.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Liberty
- I think we can combine punniest/trippiest into one category - Most Comedic, as both tend to be part of the other.


That's not even a little true. Like, a lot of joke games end up having weird imagery because that's popular right now, but there's plenty of joke games that aren't trippy, and trippy games that aren't super funny.

It'd be like combining Hamlet and a Midsummer Night's Dream because they both have jokes in them. They're very different genres and going for different things.

- An award for positive representation of diversity is a great idea! We get a lot of LGBTQ+ on the site thanks to the Pride Month events (and even outside of them) so it's something we can celebrate with.


It's possible the culture has changed to the point that this isn't a high risk, but I'd be afraid of this becoming the Diversity Ghetto, like how Best Animated Feature in the Oscars means cartoons never get any other awards.
author=LordBlueRouge
Best Fan Game: The Lawsuit waiting to happen
The Best Fan Game of the year with the best use of rips

bring this award back, because there's always going to be a fan game.


Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
I've stickied the What RMN game are you playing now? thread. I don't know if doing so will give the thread more traffic, but, it's still an option if people don't feel comfortable posting on gamepages. I'll also advertise point out the 2021 gaming diary thread as a method to help keep track of what games one plays in a year.

*Edit: "Best Fan-Game: A Lawsuit Waiting to Happen" is something I want to see return, not gonna lie.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Marrend
I've stickied the What RMN game are you playing now? thread. I don't know if doing so will give the thread more traffic, but, it's still an option if people don't feel comfortable posting on gamepages.


I feel like that one would benefit from being moved to the Community section, like in Videogames or Welp or something. Right now it's living in the game development area, which caters mostly to the people who are making the things, rather than the audience that primarily plays.

Like if I were looking for a thread about playing RMN games I would not click on the forum with the description "Information about game development tools, events, and anything else useful to developers and designers and to the community. The staff will also post pertinent information about site updates and policies here," and has posts like "Comprehensive List of Reviewers/Feedbackers/LPers/LTers/Play Testers/etc" and "RMN and SSL (https)" I would click on the forum about playing video games, with threads like "What Videogames Are You Playing Right Now?" and "RPG Maker LPers?"
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Fair enough!
iddalai
RPG Maker 2k/2k3 for life, baby!!
1194
author=Liberty
idallai, we already have a set time - until end of December. Voting happens all January (with no nominations).

I see.
What I was suggesting was, leaving the voting period as it is, but not allowing games that were released after September to be nominated, those games would be eligible for next year's Misaos instead, allowing them more time to potentially grow in popularity.

Because if you release a game in December, it will be lost in the limbo and never be considered for Misaos due to the short period of time people have to try it out.

author=Liberty
Also, light-hearted names fits the site and have been carried over as a kind of historical memory. Some things just live on as in-jokes and memes and it'd be a sad day to see them disappear.

I can respect that. I think it would be neat if all the other categories names reflected that as well, per example the "Dark Souls of RMN".

author=Liberty
Also, while I like the idea of smaller type categories, stuff like that doesn't really go well because people just vote whatever in them - a lot of people don't pay attention to things like title screens (you see them for all of 10 seconds).

Well that sucks, but I understand why it wouldn't work then.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Marrend
Fair enough!


Hell yeah.

IDK why I'm so passionate about this I don't really play video games and I don't mak gam that would attract a lot of attention, it's just important to me that everyone gets a fair shake and that this tiny little niche has a healthy games economy!
...So, the problem with event games and the misaos is that no one participating in RMN events is nominating on best event game.

What I suggested to do was to post on each RMN event game jam this year, a simple reminder to nominate best event game - maybe even later turn that reminder into a link that would redirect the player, to a playlist of all the games from that event, so they could easily nominate on all the games available once that event was over.

If no one is willing to do this. I would be willing post this reminder on each event page myself this year, if I was given the privileges to do so. This reminder needs to be on the event page because if it's in the comment section everyone will very miss easily miss the reminder within a couple of days a posting - this reminder needs to be in a place where everyone can very easily and quickly see it. This will help negate the problem of best event game nominations we had for 2020. If no one else is willing to do this work, I'd be more than happy to do it.

And just to reiterate on the previous posts:
-keep punniest game alive,
-keep trippiest game
(don't merge these two, keep them separate - because there's always going to be funny game and a trippy game every year)
- introduce a diversity award this year
-adjust The BeetleNinja/Sleeper Hit award from below 100, to below 150 to allow some breathing room for games we might miss this year
-and finally bring back

Best Fan Game:The Lawsuit waiting to happen
The Best Fan Game of the year with the best use of rips

...because there's always going to be a fan game every year.

I think these changes will give us a nice selection of games to choose from this year. Despite the nomination fub, 2020 was a good year, we just want to carry that forward with some improvements.