ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE "2021 MISAOS - THOUGHTS, IDEAS, PLANS" THREAD

Posts

Pages: 1
iddalai
RPG Maker 2k/2k3 for life, baby!!
2059
Posting this here so I don't derail the other thread, more than it has.

For context this is what I said:

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author=Liberty
I'm putting my foot down on this. When I'm no longer here, feel free to change it up, but no on this.


Do whatever you want.
I understand why you want to keep the Misao dates, but I don't like your attitude here, pulling the admin card.

Doesn't seem like a good way to foster a healthy community.

Why ask people what they think in the first place, if you're not gonna take into account what they have to say?"


I feel the need to justify this, since it was misinterpreted.

An admin has the final say. They can listen to the community, but in the end they are the ones deciding. I got no issue with that.

I can even understand maintaining the Misao's how they are now, since it's a longstanding RPG Maker tradition and it's easier for people to remember the dates.

What bugged me wasn't that Liberty said no, what I didn't like was the attitude, the way it was said. Because it made it sound like there was no use in even suggesting anything. It's no because I said so! This is what I call "playing the Admin card", the way it's said, not the decision itself.

The way you talk with people goes a long way. If you're less harsh when saying no, people will accept it better. This was just rubbing in everyone's face that you're the "boss" and no one likes it when people do that to them.

In a suggestion thread, telling people that you're putting your foot down and no means no, just makes people question why even bother with the community since in the end they don't matter. Antagonizing people like that will drive them away from the site. That's why I said it doesn't seem like a good way to foster a healthy community.

Several people mentioned that Liberty is an admin with no pay, but that is no justification for anything. Please understand that I'm not saying I don't appreciate Liberty's efforts in keeping RMN afloat for free, but in the end it was Liberty's decision to accept that task, so I cannot accept "no pay" as a shield for behavior.

I'm not demanding anything, I accepted Liberty's decision from the start. Neither do I want control over the site like Sooz suggested.

Having said all this, I don't mean to devalue Liberty's work. My comment had nothing to do with Liberty's general efforts on RMN, it was only aimed at that specific post and was blown out of proportion.
TBF, I don't think people were arcing up at you, iddlai. They were upset mostly about what LBR was saying and talking about him, not you.

What I said in that moment was very deliberately said if you look at the words.

"on this" "on this". This particular suggestion. I'd been more than flexible on every other manner of thing but this thing was a hard no. And I'm allowed to do that when people keep pushing the issue. I'm not going to let myself be bullied into things when I know that it's going to probably fall on my back to do (because people flake out a lot and I don't like disappointing the community as a whole and have to do it myself - see the Music Pack 2 event for example).


I think, perhaps, maybe you're seeing this through your bias of "A woman should be like this" again (you've brought stuff like my swearing up a few times in the past as being unladylike and too 'mean' (see Hawkmen game for example)), if only a little. I've been abused, pushed around, had to deal with people using me and fucking me over again and again whilst being Admin on this site (not to mention stalking, harassment and depression). I have had to learn to set hard boundaries at times and this was one of those times.

Could I have been a bit softer about it? Maybe. But I've noticed that when women in charge get softer they also get pushed more to change their mind because it's not a hard no and people think it's okay to push soft no's. They're more likely to call you a bitch and point out your behaviour as unprofessional and mean when you use hard no's but fucking hell, I was over being pushed and pushed despite saying no before. Hard no comes out when people won't listen.


The no pay comment was because I find people forget just how much time and effort goes into maintaining a site and running it - without pay, without thanks, without any kind of compensation. People see pay as synonymous for 'worth time doing' so I used that as the common denomination that most people could compare against. I don't get paid to take care of you lot and this place. I do a fair amount of work here, either behind the scenes, in the community interactions, on the discord or where-ever else. Yes, I'm doing it because I love the site and community (most of the time) but that doesn't mean that the fact I do this with no compensation should be ignored.

iddalai
RPG Maker 2k/2k3 for life, baby!!
2059
author=Liberty
What I said in that moment was very deliberately said if you look at the words.


True. I missed that important detail.

author=Liberty
I'd been more than flexible on every other manner of thing but this thing was a hard no. And I'm allowed to do that when people keep pushing the issue. I'm not going to let myself be bullied into things when I know that it's going to probably fall on my back to do (because people flake out a lot and I don't like disappointing the community as a whole and have to do it myself - see the Music Pack 2 event for example).


That is reasonable and I now understand it. I had no idea about what happened with the Music Pack 2 event, just looked into it and I see what you mean :/

author=Liberty
I think, perhaps, maybe you're seeing this through your bias of "A woman should be like this" again (you've brought stuff like my swearing up a few times in the past as being unladylike and too 'mean' (see Hawkmen game for example)), if only a little.


I am the kind of person who will tell you if I think you're being unnecessarily harsh (and did so on the post above), but I am 90% certain I would never tell anyone that they were "unladylike" or something similar! As far as I can remember, I've always treated everyone first and foremost as a: person.

Considering that you always get my username wrong, couldn't you be confusing me with someone else (Linkis perhaps?).

I had to search for Hawkmen to find out what that was all about and found this.
I don't think I've commented on anything related to that game, I believe it's the first time I'm hearing about it.

author=Liberty
I've been abused, pushed around, had to deal with people using me and fucking me over again and again whilst being Admin on this site (not to mention stalking, harassment and depression). I have had to learn to set hard boundaries at times and this was one of those times.


Well if I had known about all that, I would have kept my mouth shut! From that point of view I can understand where you are coming from. I apologize from making my initial comment.

As for everything else, I think you're being reasonable. I don't mean for people to ignore "the fact I do this with no compensation", I'm just pointing out that it shouldn't be used as a shield for criticism (which in this case was unwarranted).

I not saying this to excuse myself, but I'm ON and OFF on the site for long periods of time and miss a lot of what goes on, this time I commented uninformed.

I appreciate the work you do Liberty, it's hard and I don't envy it.
If you recall, I even said I thought you'd do a good job as Admin, a couple of years ago (in a PM exchange where you were informing me about someone stealing maps from my game). I stand by that.
author=iddalai
What bugged me wasn't that Liberty said no, what I didn't like was the attitude, the way it was said. Because it made it sound like there was no use in even suggesting anything. It's no because I said so! This is what I call "playing the Admin card", the way it's said, not the decision itself.

The way you talk with people goes a long way. If you're less harsh when saying no, people will accept it better. This was just rubbing in everyone's face that you're the "boss" and no one likes it when people do that to them.

In a suggestion thread, telling people that you're putting your foot down and no means no, just makes people question why even bother with the community since in the end they don't matter. Antagonizing people like that will drive them away from the site. That's why I said it doesn't seem like a good way to foster a healthy community.


…No I agree with this 100% and it was also the reason why I lashed out. I sincerely apologize for that to everyone. But we can't afford this type of behaviour.

This is exactly what happened on GamingW.net and GGZ.

Everyone on RMN should feel welcomed and included. Everyone from all different walks of life uses rpgmaker.net. I know you've probably gone through the ringer with these administrative duties and it's not easy doing the job that you do, Liberty. I 100% understand that. But we are running on the goodwill of people here on RMN. As soon as you think this sort of behaviour is justified, we've already lost the site - you're driving people away that you don't even know about.

I'm sorry for lashing out like that but my feelings are valid here too. We can't afford to treat people this way, you are a leader here on this site.

All I've ever done on RMN is try to help people out. I wouldn't be talking about this unless I really thought it was a problem. We gotta learn how to work together here Liberty, but you gotta stop acting like I'm the villain. All I've ever wanted to do on RMN is try to help people out. It was cool to work on the misaos in 2019 but it was so much more exciting to see Marrend and RpgMakerAddict come together with the right coaching. It's also really cool to see how Beloved Rapture has come with the right help. and it was also really cool to work on the archive and a see a community grow from that, that also continues to help - I love working with people. I love helping people. All I've ever wanted to do is help people out on RMN.

I don't know what happened since Gamingw, but you use to be a lot easier to talk to Liberty.
What's going on here?
Yeah, because me putting my foot down on one thing is me being harder to talk to.

One of the only reasons the community is so open to all people is because we've put our foot down on various interactions in the past. We used to be fine with all kinds of dumb shit, and now we're not.

I was more than open to a lot of the ideas that were thrown, I let you push and push until you got your sleeper hit category for example, but when I say a hard no to one thing suddenly I'm unapproachable and being too bossy.

Cool.

(BTW, I never called you a villain or anything like that. I pointed out that you were the one who made the posts that people were upset about, not iddalai. Painting me as some kind of unreasonable power-hungry control freak is beneath you. Please stop.)




@iddalai: Sorry, for some reason I really do get you and linkis confused a lot and I have no idea why. Apologies for that and what came from that. You are correct that I thought you were them for some stupid smooth-brain reason. >.<;
author=Liberty
One of the only reasons the community is so open to all people is because we've put our foot down on various interactions in the past. We used to be fine with all kinds of dumb shit, and now we're not.


100%

I used to be put off from posting in the first place from the toxicity that used to go on here. Still barely post though! Only because I'm busy.

But I do feel that it has turned around for the better in the last couple of years due to how Libby has steered the ship. Some of us have been on the site for over a decade now and I suppose we have a sense of collective ownership in the direction of our community. However there does need to be a fullstop on certain things, if Libby implemented every suggestion then the site would probably end up collapsing into a incoherent mess. There has to be some "Tough love" every now or then.



iddalai
RPG Maker 2k/2k3 for life, baby!!
2059
author=Liberty
@iddalai: Sorry, for some reason I really do get you and linkis confused a lot and I have no idea why. Apologies for that and what came from that. You are correct that I thought you were them for some stupid smooth-brain reason. >.<;


Well I'm glad we cleared that up! I was a bit confused for a moment there.
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