CRITICISM, ANGST, AND YOU

Posts

post=122464
Way to not get the point of what I was saying at all.

Yeah I guess I didn't! Care to reexplain, or...?
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13865
"Yoyos" is the best term I've heard in a long time. I am being honest here.
post=122461
This thread isn't about Legion, his inflated sense of self worth, or the game that was recently reviewed.

If this was supplied as an example you shouldn't take a whole paragraph to express this.

I've said this before, and I guess I need to say this again; you don't get to pick and choose what people say about your game. Opinions are wide ranging and can be expressed in a variety of ways. Be grateful people are even taking the time to post about it. Learn from it. Don't know what to take from someone's post? Ask. Nicely. If they don't respond? Reflect on it, take another look; it's not every players job to give you feedback.

Seriously, what the hell is the point of this topic: http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/5676/
I would seriously like it if more of the forum was geared towards development and design and real discussion on the games rather than dumb stuff. I mean, why does Moronic have like 6000 or something more posts than anywhere else?


Most any forum have topics and sections like this. I don't exactly see whats particularly wrong with that either. Sometimes, I like seeing a Llama sever someone's hands and eat them. It doesn't have to be serious business 24/7 around here.

If anything is wrong here, it's these yoyos who go to other forums with this sense of entitlement.

It wasn't meant to be about Legion. That is irrelevant, it wasn't focused on Legion but rather people who made useless posts. It wasn't focused on being nice or not nice (I am not nice too) but rather, that people chose to mock Legion rather than constructively respond. Obviously you don't get to pick and choose your responses. I'm just saying what kind of stuff should be said and what kind of stuff shouldn't be said--which is the whole point of the topic. There's no way to force it onto someone. Why should you be grateful people are taking the time to post about it, and how can you learn about it, if the post has no content but is merely a post made to mock and laugh at someone? Of course it's not every player's job to give feedback but 1. this doesn't mean you need to go and laugh at people, or 2. make useless responses.

And no, it doesn't have to be 24/7 serious business, but the Moronic forum makes up the largest forum. I wasn't addressing that everything has to be serious (I make a lot of joke posts. You can tell because I don't use punctuation in them.) but rather the fact that the MORONIC forum has a ton more posts than any other forum. Looking at it, it has 6000 more than GD&D, and 9000 more than either of the other game design forums. The only non gamedesign forum I wholeheartedly approve of is the art forum, because a lot of that is related to game design, and is productive stuff. Joke/moronic stuff shouldn't take up more of the forum that say, Game Theory.

Now, let's bring that to the gameprofile level. They have even less exposure than the game design subforums. If WIP wanted to someone integrate mini-discussions within games and ditch the rest of the forums, I would encourage it. Personally, I think it would be pretty nifty if "discussions" could be worked in, and certain interesting or growing discussions could even be linked on the front page. People who join and post "help how do I find games that are good" always bring this issue to my attention, because the actual "games" section of the site does not have as much activity as the forums.
And no, it doesn't have to be 24/7 serious business, but the Moronic forum makes up the largest forum. I wasn't addressing that everything has to be serious (I make a lot of joke posts. You can tell because I don't use punctuation in them.) but rather the fact that the MORONIC forum has a ton more posts than any other forum. Looking at it, it has 6000 more than GD&D, and 9000 more than either of the other game design forums. The only non gamedesign forum I wholeheartedly approve of is the art forum, because a lot of that is related to game design, and is productive stuff. Joke/moronic stuff shouldn't take up more of the forum that say, Game Theory.

You're not actually thinking of why this is the case, though. Quantity does not equal quality. The Moronic Forum has way more posts than many other forums (and not just here. This is how it works pretty much anywhere) because it's far faster and easier to rack up posts and conversation about what song you're listening to, what you're thinking about, or what you bought last, etc, than it is to actually post something well thought and with meaning say, here.

For example, I can easily post 'I'm listening to 'Empire State of Mind on Jay-Z's The Blueprint 3" on the 'What are you jammin' to?' topic and it would be a meaningful addition to the topic. One post. 5 seconds max. That's it. You can't apply the same treatment to the topics here, because much more time and quality is attached to every post, so therefore there isn't exactly buckets of meaningless posts in the other forums. Don't be so quick to link quality and quantity!

Now, let's bring that to the gameprofile level. They have even less exposure than the game design subforums. If WIP wanted to someone integrate mini-discussions within games and ditch the rest of the forums, I would encourage it.

And this goes back to the sentiment of 'It's like, everyone wants something, but everyone wants to take something away from someone else for it to happen.' If everyone is getting their fair share, why should we ascribe to this way of thinking?

because the actual "games" section of the site does not have as much activity as the forums.

How would you know this? I'm sorry, do you have some stats to back that up? Someone in the know correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe WIP has stated that the actual site gets way more traffic than the forums.
To be fair, the reason why game theory doesn't get many posts is that:

a. not many people want to shit post
b. it's hard to come up with a topic that hasn't been discussed
c. everyone knows (or think they know) what they're talking about, so theres not much demand for 'how do i design this RPG mechanic well?'
d. like c, there is not much back and forth discussion going on, it is just people putting in their thoughts and leaving
e. most productive people would rather work on their games than talk about how they work on their games

I'm not saying that every topic in GT is like this, and I have gained knowledge/tips from GT. But this is why not many posts make it in there.

edit: also, what mog said
That is true, but not all posts in the moronic forum are like that. And what, that's several thousand more posts. I mean, maybe one posts takes 5 seconds, but that's 5 seconds you could've spend making a meaningful post or actually trying to contribute in some way. I avoid posting in moronic as much as possible.
Honestly, most of Moronic is just procrastination anyways. Facebook is bad enough, do we really need to encourage more of it? Anyways, this has probably gotten to one of those points on an issue where we aren't really working in a way to convince one another! We are just going to continue arguing and just countering each other for pages and pages, so I suggest we stop it. It's not our choice anyways, it's WIP's choice.

My point was that the gameprofiles weren't getting a fair share, because of the forums.

And I meant activity as in commenting, discussion within gameprofiles. I didn't get how a blog post for a game with 20 or something subscribers didn't really get any comments! In fact, the only thing people seem to care about on that profile is the screenshots rather than the blog posts, or people just didn't want to put enough effort to make a comment. (i seriously don't understand why that game has that many subscribers though)

EDIT: In response to Darken about G&T... G&T is probably my favorite subforum actually. However, as I am not heavily into RPG design (NSN and Muse are both non-RPG) that forum isn't the most helpful for me. I think what would be useful would be attempting to branch out into other genres. Like Adventure games (like NSN and Muse) for instance. Catamites has quirky and fun AGS games that I find much more enjoyable than many RM games. I mean, you could argue this is RPGmaker.net, but we do have an AGS game on our front page. =P If we opened up a bit as well we could have lots of new interesting design topics amd whatnot. I don't really know how we would go about doing this though.
That is true, but not all posts in the moronic forum are like that. And what, that's several thousand more posts. I mean, maybe one posts takes 5 seconds, but that's 5 seconds you could've spend making a meaningful post or actually trying to contribute in some way. I avoid posting in moronic as much as possible. Honestly, most of Moronic is just procrastination anyways.

I can respect to agree to disagree here, but I leave you with a parting comment that pushing everyone to become 'EFFICIENCY DRONES-EVERY 5 SECONDS COULD BE SPENT TOWARDS SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE ALL NON PRODUCTIVE ACTIVITY IS BANNED BEEP BOOP *links brain to game projects via fiber optic cords*" isn't exactly a productive mindset, yet I appreciate the sentiment!

My point was that the gameprofiles weren't getting a fair share, because of the forums.

I ask again, how do you know this? Do you have some stats to back this up?

And I meant activity as in commenting, discussion within gameprofiles. I didn't get how a blog post for a game with 20 or something subscribers didn't really get any comments! In fact, the only thing people seem to care about on that profile is the screenshots rather than the blog posts, or people just didn't want to put enough effort to make a comment. (i seriously don't understand why that game has that many subscribers though)

I can actually come halfway and agree that I wish things like blogs had a bit more attention, but I think that's more than one factor (and not exactly that forums are stealing the spotlight, since gameprofiles don't have any forum analogue on RMN); gameprofiles are relatively new, people may be afraid that their comment won't mean anything (this is a problem with any comment based system in general, many people don't post because they feel their comment would be insignificant), and of course, gameprofiles, blogs, and anything else has to sell themselves. Make it interesting, and people usually give it attention, which snowballs from there. Don't expect people to post on your blog/image/gameprofile just because it's there! Sell your game.

I think what would be useful would be attempting to branch out into other genres. Like Adventure games (like NSN and Muse) for instance. Catamites has quirky and fun AGS games that I find much more enjoyable than many RM games. I mean, you could argue this is RPGmaker.net, but we do have an AGS game on our front page. =P If we opened up a bit as well we could have lots of new interesting design topics amd whatnot. I don't really know how we would go about doing this though.

There's nothing that's stopping people interesting in other genres from sharing their discussions and projects on a fundamental level, nor is there really anything in RMN's code that caters one genre over another (except for the name). The only thing stopping people from branching out into other genres is themselves. I'd as quickly welcome discussion on fighting game mechanics (I'd love that, actually) or a FPS gameprofile blog as I would an RPG.
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13865
post=122489
I mean, you could argue this is RPGmaker.net

Hopefully not for long! ;)
post=122491
My point was that the gameprofiles weren't getting a fair share, because of the forums.
I ask again, how do you know this? Do you have some stats to back this up?

I'm really referring to comments on blogs and such. (Which I did link an example of.)

I did say that I feel a mini forum or discussion thread built into gameprofiles would be a good idea. ;) Not quite blogs, but rather things that users could start to, and perhaps the gamepage creators could have the ability to verify a topic on their profile before the topic goes up. And if this were further linked to have currently popular or interesting topics show up on the "The Latest" feed on the front page.

And there isn't anything in the code that specifically caters towards RPGs, yes, but there is definitely an RPG based atmosphere here. (Thinking back when Deacon said "AGS is boring.") Certainly there are members who break the trend, but currently, the site's members focus on RPGs, mostly made in VX or XP. If I were making FPS's I'd certainly be less likely to post my game at "rpgmaker.net" over something that doesn't sound so genre specific. Not that genre-specific is bad, but I would like to see the site grow in such way. (Especially with such a handy gameprofile system.)
Thinking back when Deacon said "AGS is boring."


MUST CONTAIN RAGE.
Now, let's bring that to the gameprofile level. They have even less exposure than the game design subforums.

You're pulling this out of your ass and you know it. The forums have more exposure? How about some proof, or - dare I say - logic? The first thing you see right as you open the page is screenshots, blog updates, reviews. The forum button is even on the very top right of the opening page. It's about as obscure as you can get without hiding it at the bottom of the page.

If WIP wanted to someone integrate mini-discussions within games and ditch the rest of the forums, I would encourage it. Personally, I think it would be pretty nifty if "discussions" could be worked in,

..."Discussions"...

...

Anyway, there is something to that effect in place already. Comments. Even though that, for some reason, the blog comments are in descending order, they are still there.

Why should you be grateful people are taking the time to post about it, and how can you learn about it, if the post has no content but is merely a post made to mock and laugh at someone? Of course it's not every player's job to give feedback but 1. this doesn't mean you need to go and laugh at people, or 2. make useless responses.

This right here allows me to discern two things.

1 - Trying to debate this with you is comparable to slamming my head into a thick wall of concrete
2 - You skimmed the post without taking into account anything that was said.

You concede that it is not every players job to give feedback to the creator and yet with the same breath say that useless responses are unwelcome. TIME PARADOX, is it just "useless" comments you're against or is it just the ones that are mean AND useless? What do you consider "useless"? Who gets to decide what's useless and what isn't?

Comments of any type are fine, overly inflammatory comments should be acted against.


What you seem to he suggesting is some kind of ridiculously rigid standard all comments should follow. What if the player doesn't feel like posting a freaking thesis about a game he enjoyed? What if someone just wants to say "I couldn't stand more than three minutes of this garbage"?

"What can you learn about useless comments" Well, a negative comment makes you second guess yourself and will maybe force you to look at your game from a different angle. If it's just the minority, maybe one wouldn't consider it as much, or maybe you would - it varies from person to person. Even seemingly useless comments could have some meaning to them.

Shit, trying to decode this mess is taxing; I need a drink.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
Certainly there are members who break the trend, but currently, the site's members focus on RPGs, mostly made in VX or XP.)

I can think of about 2 games being made in XP/Vx and about 30 being made in RM2k3.

it was a bit ironic how there was a complaint about the way Legion mapped a doorway in a certain manner, when I've seen the same method in one of RMN's top games, Ascendence.)

I complained about this exact thing in my review too. Though I don't find Ascendence nearly as perfect and flawless as pretty much everyone else seems to.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
Oh good god what did I start D:
Nightblade, how come Mog is able to make an intelligent response to me? I already explained the forums thing and stated I was referring to comments and such. Take a look at this and count how many of the recent blog posts have 0 comments. http://rpgmaker.net/blogs/
Saying the forums button is as obscure as it can get is not necessarily true or factual. It is not explicitly more visible than the other buttons on the top. In fact, being on one of the edges (the right edge) may make it more noticeable than all the other buttons in the middle, but that's not necessarily factual either. :)

If you had actually read what I said instead of complaining about talking to me like slamming your head into concrete, you would've read that what I suggested for discussions was different from comments, but rather a sort of mini-forum that users can create topics in and gameprofile creators can manage. A cross between blogs and comments in a way. Don't accuse me of skimming, I read everything carefully.

And Solitayre. Let's count some stuff up. I have noticed the front page "latest games" section tends to have more VX games recently.
The front page:
1. Ghost Voyage - AGS
2. Tales Of Altis - VX
3. Ragnarok Midgard Chronicles - XP
4. Twist - custom

Now, let's count some of the most recent here: http://rpgmaker.net/games/
1. Tales Of Altis - VX
2. Iron Gaia - 2k
3. Ragnarok Midgard Chronicles - XP
4. Muse - 2k3
5. Night of Marian - VX
6. Everything Turns Gray - VX
7. Chronology of the Last Era - 2k3
8. Generica: The Next Generation - 2k3
9. Diablocide - VX
10. Dragon Adventure - VX

Right now that's a total of:
VX/XP - 8
2k/3 - 4
AGS - 1
Custom - 1

Let's continue counting.
Adela Isra - VX
Tale of Exile Act I - 2k3
Phantasy Star IV: Beneath a New Light - XP
Mistmoore Genesis - 2k3
Hellion - 2k3
Pirates of the Internet - VX
Saga Mara Talon - VX
Runewaker - 2k3
Walk It Off - XP
Glacia - VX

Counts:
VX/XP - 14
2k/3 - 8
AGS - 1
Custom - 1
Take a look at this and count how many of the recent blog posts have 0 comments. http://rpgmaker.net/blogs/

Sad but true fact: how many games (on that page, and in general) deserve blog comments or are worthy of any particular attention at all? This goes in hand with the concept of presentation and being able to sell your ideas to the general public. Games don't deserve blog posts just for existing.
Nightblade, how come Mog is able to make an intelligent response to me?

Highly ironic, also; I'm done talking to you.

Reference :

1 - Trying to debate this with you is comparable to slamming my head into a thick wall of concrete

post=122511
Nightblade, how come Mog is able to make an intelligent response to me?
Highly ironic

w...what's that supposed to mean
post=122511
Nightblade, how come Mog is able to make an intelligent response to me?
Highly ironic, also; I'm done talking to you.

Reference :

1 - Trying to debate this with you is comparable to slamming my head into a thick wall of concrete



I am going to have assume you are frustrated because you cannot defeat my argument then.
I mean, if I am going to type up lengthy responses and merely have you call me an idiot, then I am not going to bother.

It's like when I typed long passages in that AFD bible topic and he ignored every single one.
He's trying his very hardest to be the biggest prick of all time. I can't believe you guys don't see this.

Nightblade, Azn made a very competent and insightful post, you don't need to tear it to pieces to make yourself feel better, jackass.

EDIT: Like seriously, do you really have to be such a fucking bitch about EVERYTHING you don't agree with?
post=122514
I am going to have assume you are frustrated because you cannot defeat my argument then.
I mean, if I am going to type up lengthy responses and merely have you call me an idiot, then I am not going to bother.


Honestly, I say one thing and it's as if I typed nothing at all, you reiterate the same point and address nothing I've posted. You refuse to see another perspective which is why I'm choosing to stop. If you'd like to believe you've "defeated" me, you're perfectly free to think whatever you like.

It's like when I typed long passages in that AFD bible topic and he ignored every single one.

This is funny because it's actually what you're doing.

EDIT: Like seriously, do you really have to be such a fucking bitch about EVERYTHING you don't agree with?

I don't know... Do you have to ride my dick every single time I post something? I was wondering where you were, actually. You're a bit late this time.