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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseIt's one of the major reasons mages are much less useful than melee fighters, especially in FF games.
Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI would like to speak with you.
Tonfa
150
post=138357
If there's one thing that needs to change about money balance in RPGs, it's that items that restore your MP and items that revive dead party members need to be MUCH cheaper than they typically are. It's one of the major reasons mages are much less useful than melee fighters, especially in FF games.
You stated FF games as a specific example but it's simply not true. What is, however, is a fundamental design error that plagues some of the entries as well as many other games - Magic spells are scaled to be roughly equal in damage to basic physical attacks, while forgetting that one of these uses resources, the other does not.
One thing I've noticed is I almost never buy consumables if money is an issue in any way. They just tend to be an afterthought compared to new gear and spells. Don't know exactly what could be done to discourage this, or even if it's something that should be discouraged.
You stated FF games as a specific example but it's simply not true. What is, however, is a fundamental design error that plagues some of the entries as well as many other games - Magic spells are scaled to be roughly equal in damage to basic physical attacks, while forgetting that one of these uses resources, the other does not.
The older FFs, and FFV in particular are a pretty good balance of this. In FFV, most Job classes that use MP pretty much stop shit dead, everyone from the Black Mages, the Blue Mages, to the Mystic Knight. White and Time Mages were also indispensable to buffing and healing. To balance out the power of these classes, revival and MP restoring items were rare and valuable. Handing out Ethers like candy would completely break the magic using classes, and finding Phoenix Downs everywhere not only increased the relative value and worth of the healing magics and classes, but it also discouraged the player from you know...dying.
Then later in the game, along comes the Chemist class which awards the player for thinking outside the 'Ether and Phoenix Down' box. FFV was really ahead of its time!
I usually don't care about realism when unicorns and baby elephants drop fantasybucks.
I feel the opposite.
Monsters in my games that wouldn't have money NEVER drop money. They either drop useful items or items that are part of them (wolf pelts, drake scales, etc.) that can be sold for cash, a la The Elder Scrolls (or I guess FFXII kinda did this, I don't really remember).
I usually don't care about realism when unicorns and baby elephants drop fantasybucks.
I feel the opposite.
Monsters in my games that wouldn't have money NEVER drop money. They either drop useful items or items that are part of them (wolf pelts, drake scales, etc.) that can be sold for cash, a la The Elder Scrolls (or I guess FFXII kinda did this, I don't really remember).
Tonfa
150
If the only function of said items is to sell for cash, it's just an unnecessary extra step that honestly adds nothing to the game. FFXII had the Bazaar to justify it.
Well I like alchemy systems and stuff too but...I am willing to make SOME concessions for the sake of realism. Even if it is just an extra step, it is (for some reason) an extra step I really ENJOY.
I think D&D has art objects and gems instead of just gp for the same reason even though the only purpose for them is to sell them for gp. But you're given a variety of treasure for the sake of, well...variety.
I think D&D has art objects and gems instead of just gp for the same reason even though the only purpose for them is to sell them for gp. But you're given a variety of treasure for the sake of, well...variety.
I just change text from "Found X $$$!" to "Scavenged X $$$ from monsters!" and called it the day. When the time comes to make Super Shit the player goes "Alright I need some Unobtanium, hey NPC Squad here's $lots. Equip yourselfs, hire some losers, and go find some and I'll go back to saving the world or whatever. See you in five."
post=138358It's one of the major reasons mages are much less useful than melee fighters, especially in FF games.Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI would like to speak with you.
Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI can come speak with me at about the 3/4 mark through their respective campaigns, when the mages' MP finally gets to the point where using them in every battle becomes worthwhile.
I don't think that was ever a real issue, especially with Final Fantasy V and VI. FFV where Job classes allow mages to be versatile in how they deal damage, and FFVI where many of the mages were not only competent fighters (Terra/Celes), but had other abilities at their disposal. The idea is that you're not supposed to be casting your best spells every single battle. Conserve and be wise about your choices so you're not just spamming your best spells every fight.
Hell, if anything, MP is never an major issue in either game. I dare say if it took you 3/4ths of the game to sort out MP conservation problems for either FFV/VI...you're playing it wrong.
EDIT: And as a side note, Magic is universally considered to be your most powerful option in the game in FFVI (to the point of brokenness). With very few exceptions, physical attacks just cannot compare.
Hell, if anything, MP is never an major issue in either game. I dare say if it took you 3/4ths of the game to sort out MP conservation problems for either FFV/VI...you're playing it wrong.
EDIT: And as a side note, Magic is universally considered to be your most powerful option in the game in FFVI (to the point of brokenness). With very few exceptions, physical attacks just cannot compare.
I agree about magic pwning in VI; end-game anyway. You know, I'm going to chalk this up to my own OCD, since I'm the guy who ends the game with 30+ elixers because I could never bring myself to use them. I hate expending resources, no matter how plentiful.
And see, that's cool if that's your playstyle. However, I think (at least my philosophy as a developer) is that a good game with a healthy challenge should force you, or at least make it a very attractive option, to expend those resources at times. Elixirs and such shouldn't be novelty items to never, ever use. Yes, the player is always encouraged to save them up for when they're needed, but I believe there should always come a time where they're at least useful. Useful enough for the player to seriously consider using up their precious Elixir they've cherished since finding it in that treasure chests 18 hours ago...or die.
Shinan
4314
In a tabletop RPG I once used a monetary system of "levels". Instead of having to keep track of exact amounts of money the characters were stuff like "piss poor", "some cash", "decent moneyflow" and things like that. And that more or less determined what you could buy. So going into a store with some cash would let you buy stuff that required some cash to buy.
I don't know how something like that could be implemented in a video game though and I guess it's also fairly useless since the levels system was just a way for me as a lazy GM to not have to prize everything people could buy and I guess a video game can keep track of that a lot easier.
I have to admit I like giving free stuff away if it makes sense storywise. After all if you're the chosen one out to save the world I'm sure everyone who knows about it would either give you all the help they can or at least have some decent discounts. And if the players are soldiers equipment should probably be given out on a mission to mission basis and the military should probably provide that equipment too. (with all the arbitary "you don't need a tactical nuke on this village peacekeeping mission")
I also like if there's lots and lots of useless stuff to buy. Going into a store and picking from fifteen brands of cola does have its charm (as long as the menu selection doesn't suck balls because then it can be a pain to browse the stuff)
I don't know how something like that could be implemented in a video game though and I guess it's also fairly useless since the levels system was just a way for me as a lazy GM to not have to prize everything people could buy and I guess a video game can keep track of that a lot easier.
I have to admit I like giving free stuff away if it makes sense storywise. After all if you're the chosen one out to save the world I'm sure everyone who knows about it would either give you all the help they can or at least have some decent discounts. And if the players are soldiers equipment should probably be given out on a mission to mission basis and the military should probably provide that equipment too. (with all the arbitary "you don't need a tactical nuke on this village peacekeeping mission")
I also like if there's lots and lots of useless stuff to buy. Going into a store and picking from fifteen brands of cola does have its charm (as long as the menu selection doesn't suck balls because then it can be a pain to browse the stuff)
post=138465
And see, that's cool if that's your playstyle. However, I think (at least my philosophy as a developer) is that a good game with a healthy challenge should force you, or at least make it a very attractive option, to expend those resources at times. Elixirs and such shouldn't be novelty items to never, ever use. Yes, the player is always encouraged to save them up for when they're needed, but I believe there should always come a time where they're at least useful. Useful enough for the player to seriously consider using up their precious Elixir they've cherished since finding it in that treasure chests 18 hours ago...or die.
I feel that Dragon Age, and to a lesser extent FFXII, are good at this. It helps that Dragon Age doesn't have Elixers, just four ranks of Healing Poultices and Lyrium Potions. I also use my various poisons and bombs fairly often; it's how my rogue works his "I can help you get out of anything" charm.
To be honest, I haven't put any points into trap-making and probably won't until my second playthrough, but I am going to play on Hard (instead of Normal) and have definitely had times where I was like "I really fucking wish I had put some points into trapmaking right now." (NOTE: I haven't been switching up my party at all; I've used Alistair/Morrigan/Zevran the entire game. Next game I'll vary my party up a lot more and actually have the room to not uber-specialize everyone).
EnderX
562
How exactly are you defining 'currency' for this topic? One of the things I've been working with is detaching experience from the traditional 'level-up' method; earned experience is used to purchase new skills, abilities, and stat boosts directly. Would this count as an alternate currency by your standards, or not?
On the regular stuff - it varies depending on situation. My current major project, I'm toying with the idea of using 'credit', assuming I can figure out where to change the XP scripts to allow for negative currency values. The whole situation takes place within a single village (focus is supposed to be on protecting the village from a curse cast on it), so everyone knows who's been working, and who's been slacking off - actual hard currency wouldn't necessarily be required there.
On the animals - long term, probably going with rendering. Kill a deer, get a deer carcass. Take the carcass to a renderer, or have someone in the party who can render, get back several deer meat (HP restoring item), Antlers and Pelt, (crafting/trade goods), etc. In some cases, the rendering will provide an item marked as 'Bounty Tag' (Rat Tail, etc.) which can be used to claim a bounty if one is posted for that type of creature.
On the regular stuff - it varies depending on situation. My current major project, I'm toying with the idea of using 'credit', assuming I can figure out where to change the XP scripts to allow for negative currency values. The whole situation takes place within a single village (focus is supposed to be on protecting the village from a curse cast on it), so everyone knows who's been working, and who's been slacking off - actual hard currency wouldn't necessarily be required there.
On the animals - long term, probably going with rendering. Kill a deer, get a deer carcass. Take the carcass to a renderer, or have someone in the party who can render, get back several deer meat (HP restoring item), Antlers and Pelt, (crafting/trade goods), etc. In some cases, the rendering will provide an item marked as 'Bounty Tag' (Rat Tail, etc.) which can be used to claim a bounty if one is posted for that type of creature.
post=138510
On the animals - long term, probably going with rendering. Kill a deer, get a deer carcass. Take the carcass to a renderer, or have someone in the party who can render, get back several deer meat (HP restoring item), Antlers and Pelt, (crafting/trade goods), etc. In some cases, the rendering will provide an item marked as 'Bounty Tag' (Rat Tail, etc.) which can be used to claim a bounty if one is posted for that type of creature.
This is pretty cool, and could really enhance a particular setting if done well. I don't think it'd work in any game, but it is more interesting than "get carcass/sell for fantasybucks."
post=138510
How exactly are you defining 'currency' for this topic? One of the things I've been working with is detaching experience from the traditional 'level-up' method; earned experience is used to purchase new skills, abilities, and stat boosts directly. Would this count as an alternate currency by your standards, or not?
On the regular stuff - it varies depending on situation. My current major project, I'm toying with the idea of using 'credit', assuming I can figure out where to change the XP scripts to allow for negative currency values. The whole situation takes place within a single village (focus is supposed to be on protecting the village from a curse cast on it), so everyone knows who's been working, and who's been slacking off - actual hard currency wouldn't necessarily be required there.
On the animals - long term, probably going with rendering. Kill a deer, get a deer carcass. Take the carcass to a renderer, or have someone in the party who can render, get back several deer meat (HP restoring item), Antlers and Pelt, (crafting/trade goods), etc. In some cases, the rendering will provide an item marked as 'Bounty Tag' (Rat Tail, etc.) which can be used to claim a bounty if one is posted for that type of creature.
Reminds me of dwarf fortress.
WeasleX
0
I'm glad you set up this topic, I'm actually handling currency in a new form, by introducing drops to sell and gain money from. This is how it should be set up in the real world anyway, you don't shoot and kill someone and money pops out of their dead corpse for you to grab, does it? (don't answer that, it was rhetorical, lol)
Instead, I'm introducing item drops, like if you are attacked by a pirate space ship and you manage to win, you have a 75% chance that the ship will drop scrap (turn into scrap salvage in other words) that you can sell at a salvage yard for some cold hard green stuff. (no... not green rocks, I know it's cold and hard, but that's not what I'm referring too here, stay focused.)
Same with monster drops, like if you kill an evil mutant plant from an uncharted planet, it drops it's stalk for you to sell to a local merchant... (NO, don't ask why he wants an evil mutated plant stalk, trust me, you don't want to know the answer to that.)
Instead, I'm introducing item drops, like if you are attacked by a pirate space ship and you manage to win, you have a 75% chance that the ship will drop scrap (turn into scrap salvage in other words) that you can sell at a salvage yard for some cold hard green stuff. (no... not green rocks, I know it's cold and hard, but that's not what I'm referring too here, stay focused.)
Same with monster drops, like if you kill an evil mutant plant from an uncharted planet, it drops it's stalk for you to sell to a local merchant... (NO, don't ask why he wants an evil mutated plant stalk, trust me, you don't want to know the answer to that.)
No but even freshly-made corpses tend to have wallets with cash, or failing that, ATM cards. Pirates in particular should have copious amounts of swag onboard.
WeasleX
0
post=138683
No but even freshly-made corpses tend to have wallets with cash, or failing that, ATM cards. Pirates in particular should have copious amounts of swag onboard.
Should, but you'd have to board the ship. I should have been more specific, I was refering to small fighters that attack the players ship, they are small and don't have anything on them... especially AFTER you destroy them and turn them into scrap.
