Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
OUT OF CONTENT - TIME TO RESTART, RIGHT?
Posts
Tonfa
150
Tonfa
View playlists
CloseIf you do add NG+ to a game, make sure you at least have the option to reset level back to 1. For me the point of NG+ is to use the Cool Things I've gotten during the playthrough right from the start, not to yawn and steamroll everything. I'd give a lot of things for Phantom Brave to have this feature. Alternately NG+ unlocking new content is pretty cool too - but only if there is a good reason for the first playthrough to not have it in the first place.
Postgame/endgame content is welcome if it has a certain level of quality. "Grind to max stats so you stand a chance against this boss" (hi FFX) is not it.
One thing very closely related to yet strangely ignored in this discussion is replayability. As long as the gameplay is fun enough to warrant it and you have customization options/not overly tightly tuned difficulty curve, players will find ways to enjoy replays of the game - and thus get more out of it, even without postgame content. Different party setups, challenges, that sort of thing.
Postgame/endgame content is welcome if it has a certain level of quality. "Grind to max stats so you stand a chance against this boss" (hi FFX) is not it.
One thing very closely related to yet strangely ignored in this discussion is replayability. As long as the gameplay is fun enough to warrant it and you have customization options/not overly tightly tuned difficulty curve, players will find ways to enjoy replays of the game - and thus get more out of it, even without postgame content. Different party setups, challenges, that sort of thing.
Neophyte
155
Okay wait, why are we comparing Chrono Trigger to post game content. Chrono Trigger is 15 years old and has no post-game content, the DS version is terrible and doesn't count. Just because all post-game content you've played is bad, doesn't mean it can't be good. In fact, most jrpgs I've played aren't good examples of post-game content.
Except Final Fantasy Tactics, which is almost 15 years old, but it has good post-game/good side content (unlike chrono trigger). Deep Dungeon is a good example, and it does a good job of adding a gimmick/handicap to the game with the darkness. I like it when post-game content adds a little twist to the original battles and mechanics. Just having a NG+ or enemies with higher hp is lame. I'd like it if there was a twist to NG+, like having some sort of handicap or something would be cool. But if you can find a way to twist your core game mechanic on its side like what FFT does, it really adds to the experience. It's also good if you can tie in some backstory to the whole experience and not just make it SLAY THIS LARGE TURTLE AND GET 1 MILLION GIL.
This doesn't have to apply to just post-game content. But it can be a "not your average sidequest" type of thing. It can be done before or after the final boss, it's just recommended that you do it afterwards since it proves that you are ready for anything the game throws at you.
Anybody who gets to the end of our amateur games should get a cookie + some side content. They obviously enjoyed our work. =(
Or just give yourself a cookie.
Except Final Fantasy Tactics, which is almost 15 years old, but it has good post-game/good side content (unlike chrono trigger). Deep Dungeon is a good example, and it does a good job of adding a gimmick/handicap to the game with the darkness. I like it when post-game content adds a little twist to the original battles and mechanics. Just having a NG+ or enemies with higher hp is lame. I'd like it if there was a twist to NG+, like having some sort of handicap or something would be cool. But if you can find a way to twist your core game mechanic on its side like what FFT does, it really adds to the experience. It's also good if you can tie in some backstory to the whole experience and not just make it SLAY THIS LARGE TURTLE AND GET 1 MILLION GIL.
This doesn't have to apply to just post-game content. But it can be a "not your average sidequest" type of thing. It can be done before or after the final boss, it's just recommended that you do it afterwards since it proves that you are ready for anything the game throws at you.
Anybody who gets to the end of our amateur games should get a cookie + some side content. They obviously enjoyed our work. =(
Or just give yourself a cookie.
Tonfa
150
I'd hardly consider "You can't see the battlefield, have fun!" a good gimmick in a strategy game where knowledge is everything! This is also why fog of war sucks, the AI mercilessly ignores it anyway. Also to be honest the gimmick of having to find the right tile to unlock the next floor just made it FAQ-bait of the highest order.
I've had fun with Deep Dungeon, but that involved playing a hack where the dungeon was always lit.
I've had fun with Deep Dungeon, but that involved playing a hack where the dungeon was always lit.
Zeph
39
If the ending is good enough then I don't see why there should be any postgame.
The good guys win, they defeated the big bad, and the world is restored back to order. I don't see any room for "Go slay giant unrelated dragon" anywhere there, the ending should've wrapped up everything that needs to be wrapped!
Unless it's got an important storyline behind it, in that case I don't see why it can't be a part of the normal game in the first place. Maybe a direct continuation of the story after you kill Big Bad #1, telling you about Big Bad #2. Maybe there could be a time skip!
The good guys win, they defeated the big bad, and the world is restored back to order. I don't see any room for "Go slay giant unrelated dragon" anywhere there, the ending should've wrapped up everything that needs to be wrapped!
Unless it's got an important storyline behind it, in that case I don't see why it can't be a part of the normal game in the first place. Maybe a direct continuation of the story after you kill Big Bad #1, telling you about Big Bad #2. Maybe there could be a time skip!
Shinan
4314
post=138503
To most people in this topic:
<chaos> so let's discuss a popular thing in games; there are plenty of people who want to keep playing with a cool game's systems after the final boss, and (EDITOR NOTE HERE:) NG+ especially is almost an absolute "must have" from what I've seen of modern RPG fans on SA and NeoGAF
<RMN> FUCK YOU there is no reason to let people enjoy a game more
Well the fact is that it's the very term "postgame" that sort of bothers me. if the game ends... Then... postgame is what happens after you've stopped playing. What I am against it not to let people enjoy a game more but letting people who "just" finish the game feel like they missed out on content. ("oh did you know that if you play this game through five times you'll get all kinds of awesome stuff and extra puzzle content. But first you have to trudge through the game four times")
Basically I just think that new game+ shouldn't have any more effort put into it than easter eggs. Because it's not really part of the game. It's the... POSTgame... (Where I guess easter eggs are the meta game :D)
WolfCoder
3554
post=138464
...
The way I see it, there's a myriad of ways we can prevent this.
...
Find an RPG Maker game you can stand to play this much and then we'll talk.
Darken
3952
post=138475
Answer: Go and make them that good. (but that is beyond the scope of this topic)
post=138526post=138464Find an RPG Maker game you can stand to play this much and then we'll talk.
...
The way I see it, there's a myriad of ways we can prevent this.
...
hey fuck you
also last scenario/exit fate
People saying "make the game good first" should be shot. Obviously the game needs to be good for people to bother getting to this content, in whatever form it takes! Stop waylaying the conversation for your stupid and hypocritical one-liners.
WolfCoder
3554
Links?
Dinner and a movie
post=138532
...
People saying "make the game good first" should be shot. Obviously the game needs to be good for people to bother getting to this content, in whatever form it takes! Stop waylaying the conversation for your stupid and hypocritical one-liners...
Dinner and a movie
Darken
3952
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=exit+fate+last+scenario
Anyway I find this topic interesting as I'm not much of an "end game player" in fact there are very little RPGs I have beaten! Even if I did it I'm usually satisfied with the story ending. I feel like I'm missing out on the new game+ thing as I've never beaten chrono trigger. Is there like developer commentary and stuff? Because I think that's a pretty cool "mode" to add in.
Anyway I find this topic interesting as I'm not much of an "end game player" in fact there are very little RPGs I have beaten! Even if I did it I'm usually satisfied with the story ending. I feel like I'm missing out on the new game+ thing as I've never beaten chrono trigger. Is there like developer commentary and stuff? Because I think that's a pretty cool "mode" to add in.
I forgot about Last Scenario and Exit Fate. Whoops!
I never fought him but Last Scenario has the uber-uber-postgame boss if you collect all the hex cards. He's basically in a completely different league than everything else. Exit Fate has something similar: An uber-uber strategy battle that basically has impossible odds. Both of these mean there is always that one boss which takes everything including the kitchen sink and more to take down to the point you may not ever do it. At the same time there's always those players who have to 100% the game and the uber-uber boss could be like dangling a carrot in front of the player that they might never get.
(I really should go try the post-game in those)
I never fought him but Last Scenario has the uber-uber-postgame boss if you collect all the hex cards. He's basically in a completely different league than everything else. Exit Fate has something similar: An uber-uber strategy battle that basically has impossible odds. Both of these mean there is always that one boss which takes everything including the kitchen sink and more to take down to the point you may not ever do it. At the same time there's always those players who have to 100% the game and the uber-uber boss could be like dangling a carrot in front of the player that they might never get.
(I really should go try the post-game in those)
Darken
Anyway I find this topic interesting as I'm not much of an "end game player" in fact there are very little RPGs I have beaten! Even if I did it I'm usually satisfied with the story ending. I feel like I'm missing out on the new game+ thing as I've never beaten chrono trigger. Is there like developer commentary and stuff? Because I think that's a pretty cool "mode" to add in.
A NG+ in Chrono Trigger takes all your items, level, and equipment into a brand new game. Everything else is the same except at the start of the game there's an option to go straight to the last boss with the first two party members (or one if you want). Winning here gives you the "Developers Ending" where you can talk to the devs and they say whatever then you get a fast forwarded version of the credits.
Developer commentary would be interesting though!
Why aren't you giving your player an incentive to stick around after the curtain call, if they so choose?
Well first off, and I'm not saying this as an advertiser, but my games DO have 10000% more replay value than most RM games because you completely customize your character(s) and skillsets in almost all of my recent work. BUT that is replay value and not post-play or endgame value which is what you are talking about, right?
I guess to paraphrase something Darken said to me recently, the reason is that if someone has played to the end of your game's story and wants to play MORE of it, you really oughtn't be worried about appeasing that person. We spend a lot of our time worrying about if the player is going to quit in the first ten minutes, and rightfully so.
(The original Iron Gaia had a rather awkwardly implemented "New Game+" mode. I say awkwardly because the implementation of it was limited by both rm2k and my own eventing ability at the time. But that mode was harder than the original game, and you got wacky supporting characters (silly cameos from popular video games/movies), two things that kind of cancelled each other out. There was also "ultimate" treasure that could only be found in that mode by finding (through mind numbing trial and error) and defeating a secret boss.)
Crystalgate
694
Anything the player learns or finds before the final dungeon can be used for at least one dungeon. That's usually enough for me. That's also about as long as I can stand to play without finding anything new. Once I'm "finished" building my party, the game should end after one dungeon as far as I'm concerned.
I cannot stand New Game Plus like that in Chrono Trigger. One-shooting enemies doesn't work for me. I have played Chrono Trigger twice, but none were New Game Plus and I'll never play New Game Plus no matter how many times I replay it. I am however open to taking with me my old builds if I can pit it against upgraded monsters like in the Diablo series Nightmare and Hell mode and Demon's Souls NG+. In other situations however, if a game is good enough for a second playtrough, then I play it again from the beginning.
I cannot stand New Game Plus like that in Chrono Trigger. One-shooting enemies doesn't work for me. I have played Chrono Trigger twice, but none were New Game Plus and I'll never play New Game Plus no matter how many times I replay it. I am however open to taking with me my old builds if I can pit it against upgraded monsters like in the Diablo series Nightmare and Hell mode and Demon's Souls NG+. In other situations however, if a game is good enough for a second playtrough, then I play it again from the beginning.
I bring up Chrono Trigger as a New Game plus because the multiple endings add some replay value.
Okay, better example. Chrono Cross/Final Fantasy X-2. In both games you literally are only playing about half the game if you don't play New Game+.
Okay, better example. Chrono Cross/Final Fantasy X-2. In both games you literally are only playing about half the game if you don't play New Game+.
Crystalgate
694
I understand that, but unless the enemies are upgraded appropriately, I will have to chew trough a lot of incredible boring battles. No extra content will ever be worth that meaning I will simple have to do without that other half of the game.
Tonfa
150
X-2 is actually a great example of dumping you right back to level 1 in NG+, which means breaking the NG+ is more about your Cool Stuff than just raw stats.
Yeah, FF X-2 brings you back to level one. It's the addition of all your equipment that lets you do cool stuff at level one (with pretty much an entire other half the game unlocked, as well) that makes it fun.
Neophyte
155
What kind of things do you get when you play through FFX-2 again? I played the game a long time ago but never finished it. I know that you can only get the good ending by playing through twice (or doing everything perfect the first time). Are there new quests or is it just choices you have to make (like knowing to team up with that one faction rather than the other)?
