ACTION RESOLUTION SYSTEM - THOUGHTS

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Just a quick mockup I did during the weekend:

A menu like this could appear when entering a shop. Skill checks would be % based, so the color codes are only vague guidelines to the player



PS: Who is able to guess the games the font, the cursor and the textbox are from (only top part of the picture)? :-)
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
I have often considered creating a game a lot like this.

Like this is something I've been chewing on for literally years.

What I've learned about DICE ROLLS IN GAMES and how people react to them (33% of the time by cheating and 33% of the time by ragequitting) has diminished my enthusiasm.

I've got some priceless advice for you if you attempt this, though.

WEIGHT THE DIE ROLLS so that the DETERMINISTIC (preset) part or skill bonus is numerically more significant (higher absolute value) than the PROBABILISTIC (random) part or die roll. In other words, weight it like higher levels of 1st Edition D&D.

It should be 1d20 + 10 (target number 15) rather than 1d100 + 10 (target number 60). You HAVE to make the player feel like their skills matter...A LOT.

And there would be combat, ringemenu based combat: Shootouts are quick and deadly, one shot from my predator and most enemies are a bubbling pile of gore on the floor. No need to make a detailled CBS where each shot takes 2d100+10 Hitpoints.

I never understood why shadowrun was made into an FPS...
post=146381
PS: Who is able to guess the games the font, the cursor and the textbox are from (only top part of the picture)? :-)



Secret of Mana for the font! And I guess one of the FF's, like VI, maybe for the cursor. Not sure about the text boxes though.

This is a neat idea and I wanted to share an idea my brother had a while ago related to this; maybe it will help you!

His thoughts were, the inherent problem with random skill checks is that even if you have a high chance of, let's say, 75%, if you were to fail, you'd be upset. It's even more pronounced when you have something like a 95% chance, and you fail.

Now, using a battle system as an analogy, you don't have something like a 70% chance to win a fight using an Attack skill, you exchange blows back and forth until someone is victorious. You may have a hit chance of 70%, and it's not as big of a deal if you don't hit each round because you just need to win most of the rounds. Take this concept of back-and-forth exchanges and put the skill system into it.

As an example, if you were to try to haggle with a shopkeeper, you would initially select Haggle (and it may still show you a colored panel to give you a rough idea of how difficult it would be to do.) Just like a battle system, you may factor in several skills if you wanted to such as: Charm, Smooth-Talker, Knowledge of Items and Trading (think of a better name lol), and Intimidation.

Now the actual skill check would be a series of events that would either be successful or not. After 6 out of 10 successes, you win. You could even pick what skill you want to use each "round," with some being better choices at different times. If the shopkeeper is getting angry, you could use Charm or Smooth-Talker. If he is starting to break down, you could use Intimidation. If he tries to convince you that his higher price is the actual going price, you can use your Item Knowledge skill to see through his lie.

You could even go as far as giving a character a daily allotment of Hero Points, Action Points, or whatever you want to call them. If you are failing at something that you desperately want to succeed at, you could expend a point to either automatically win a "round" or to increase your overall success rate. This is all pretty unpolished, but I'm just trying to give you food for thought. :)

Another neat part about this system is that you could easily incorporate combat. Let's say you have the Brawling, Pistol, and Telekinesis skills, combat could play out in the same manner, or a similar one, by allowing you to choose what skill you want to handle each round with, and again, special abilities would be done using the same 'Point' fashion.

The way abilities could work is every couple points you learn of a skill, you would gain a new ability. Some examples being:

Charm: Flattering Complement - You deliver kind words, flattering your opponent. Increases your success rate by 50% and decreases the target's hostility toward you.

Fast-Talker: Quick Lie - You conjure up a quick, but very convincing lie, and the opponent believes you. Instantly grants a success.

Pistol: Aimed Shot - You take aim and fire a deadly and precise shot. Causes 300% damage.

Brawling: Headlock - You attempt to grab your opponent and put them in a headlock. Not exactly sure what this would do, but it could open all kinds of other possibilities.

Hope this isn't off track, or confusing, but maybe it'll evoke some entirely new ideas. Good luck!
@ashriot

Yes, the font is Secret of Mana, the hand cursor is FF and the boxes are from Shadowrun - but the MegaCD version (i altered the colors a bit).

Your idea is very interesting by the way. It will make the system much more complicated to script, but it sounds really intriguing.

like each selection starts a chain of skill checks and after a few checks you can alter your selection again to suit the new situation. this could also spice up the somewhat boring "select a menu point" thing.

off to work, but i keep the idea in mind!
Awesome, I'm glad you like the idea. It does seem like it would be a complicated system from a programming point of view, but hopefully you can streamline some of the mechanics.


To expand on what ashriot said, I think the problem is simple that combat has an actual engine while non combat skills have a binary success/fail design. The game gives all those cool skills and different tactics you can use, but when it comes to diplomacy it all hangs on one roll.

I think the idea with the multiple skill checks is great and it does make the process seem much more like an engine. Heck, I'd say that if the idea becomes involved enough, it <i>is</i> an engine. I think that if you have a lot of social skills, your goal should be to design an engine for social interactions. This may be a bit much for an RPG maker game, but it's still something to keep in mind. If you have a social engine, you can then load all (except maybe some plot determining ones) social challenges into it.
You still need a battle system for it to an rpg otherwise you simply have a better graficks point and click adventure that you can make in flash. It would make a pretty cool flash game but if it was an rpg it would be kinda pointless.

If you did it in flash it could be pretty cool though.
If you could integrate this better so that the break from immersion is minimal, you'd have something there.
@ashriot

I keep it in mind for sure. Right now my project needs work on many levels so I cannot focus too much on a single concept. In fact - the expanded Action Resolution Sytem idea could be a game in itself

@Wulf_Productions

I already decided for a combination of both. A battle system and the action resolution system.

Thanks for your thoughts, all!
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
post=146571
I never understood why shadowrun was made into an SHITTY COUNTERSTRIKE CLONE...

fixed. Shadowrun would have made an amazing Deus-Ex/Bioshock style FPS or even just a regular FPS with a canonically-acceptable STORY would have been good.

@fizzy:

No thoughts on weighting the die rolls??
The World of Darkness P&P system had a really nifty stystem that worked in a similar way to what I think you're trying to go for here. Basically you have "Abilities" (strength, dexterity, charisma, perception, etc) and "Attributes" (firearms, melee, computer, politics, survival, etc). Whenever you get into a situation where the dice are rolled, the gamemaster chooses one Ability and one Attribute that are used in that roll. Those two scores are added together, and that many d10s are rolled. You have a difficulty value (which defaults to 7), every die rolled 7 or higher counts as a success. The more successes you roll, the better the situation turns out for you (in the case of combat, successes count as points of damage to the opponent).

Say you're trying to steal a car. First, you have to find a mark; a car that you know is easy to break into and hot-wire. That might be something like Wisdom + Drive. Next you have to jimmy the door lock without being too obvious about it; Dexterity + Subterfuge. Now that you're in the car, you have to figure out which wires to cross or whatever to hot-wire the car; Intelligence + Computers. VROOOM! You got the car running, but someone managed to spot you and called the cops; you have to make a fast getaway now that you see the flashing lights in your rear-view; Dexterity + Drive.

So with something like this, you could have a reletively small set of skills/abilities/whatnot, and still have a dynamic way of dealing with situations by mixing and matching the different skills to suit each unique challenge. Of course, coding something like this into a video game would be a LOT more complicated than doing it with pen & paper, where you have a human brain (the gamemaster or whoever) to decide which skills to use, what happens if a skill check fails, how to change the situations depending on the outcome of skill rolls, etc.


Personally, I'd love to see someone make a D&D game that actually utilized the P&P system. Every D&D game I've played has been some watered-down version of the system that used real-time combat that usually boils down to "equip the biggest weapon/heaviest armor you can get and hack at the baddies till they die". It would be cool to see something that took a more XCOM/Jagged Alliance type approach, with more tactical combat and non-linear gameplay.
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