AN ATB SYSTEM WITH A SMALL CHANGE

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Edit:

Here is a video link to show how the concept would flow in a real battle:


Simply tap an arrow key to select a character, tap a number key to choose a command, and then finally tap an arrow (to target an ally) or a number (to target an enemy) to execute the command.

Original Post:

I've been trying to think of a battle system with an altered version of an ATB system. It would utilize what I call a Stamina bar that would be in 5 blocks. (Maybe 5 with half-blocks.) Characters would constantly generate Stamina and you could select any character you wanted at any time. As soon as they had enough Stamina to perform an action you wanted to do, you could pick them and use the ability.

This would allow the removal of the all-but-useless MP system which I've grown to dislike quite a bit. It really is pretty pointless. In most games you just conserve MP when you need to and then use it all on a boss. Or you just use it as often as you like and then use Ethers to restore it.

With this Stamina system, you would be inclined to use different abilities depending on the situation. If a powerful ability cost 5 Stamina, and hit the entire enemy party, such as Firaga (in the Final Fantasy universe) you wouldn't use it against a single enemy, because it's not Stamina-efficient. Final Fantasy XIII really had this pretty well done, but I wanted to take it a step further and develop interesting abilities rather than the simple: Attack, Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Cure. That system works fine for FF, but really is pretty stale.

The game system I'm currently thinking about has some roots within the Romancing SaGa (or just SaGa) series. You would have HP and LP. In my world they would be Vitality and Constitution. Each time your Vitality reached 0, you would lose 1 Constitution. Any further damage would lower your Constitution by 1 and if that reached 0, that character would permanently die. If the main character permanently died, you would game over. Also, some of the very powerful skills would consume 1 Constitution and could only be used once per fight.

Anyway, sorry if that was a bit boring but game design is my favorite part of RPG making :D I just wanted to test the water and see if this was something that was interesting or something not worth bothering with.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
This would allow the removal of the all-but-useless MP system which I've grown to dislike quite a bit. It really is pretty pointless. In most games you just conserve MP when you need to and then use it all on a boss. Or you just use it as often as you like and then use Ethers to restore it.
Just saw this and figured I'd point out that you're playing the wrong games. now to read the rest of the post
Just saw this and figured I'd point out that you're playing the wrong games. now to read the rest of the post


...what games should I be playing? O.o
You changed the name of MP to Stamina. They are honestly the same in every way, just you're going to display it with bar chunks rather than numbers.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
I thin he's making it recover over time. Which is basically MP that recovers over time.
post=146590
You changed the name of MP to Stamina. They are honestly the same in every way, just you're going to display it with bar chunks rather than numbers.


Well the difference is that Stamina is constantly regenerating and every action you do requires some Stamina, not just special abilities. Think of it more like if in a Final Fantasy game your Attack command only consumed half an ATB bar. Also, if you've played FFXIII, its similar to that.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
So it's really just ATB with cooldowns attached to the skills. You still run into the same problem of people trying to conserve their big skills for the boss, unless your battles demand that you spend them to survive. Then again, that can be done with "boring old" MP, so I really don't see what this adds without proper treatment and fleshing out.

Then again, if ATB resets every battle, you run into the problem of battles where players toss out high-end skills like loose change. In addition, what's stopping players from healing themselves to full HP outside of battle? Not MP, because you've discarded it. And if you fully heal after every battle, welp.

Here's an idea: build a normal, "boring", basic RPG and learn to balance that before you try to branch out and innovate. If you don't, odds are that you're going to end up with the same issues in your poorly-balanced "new and exciting" system as you would in a poorly-balanced traditional RPG.
post=146593
So it's really just ATB with cooldowns attached to the skills. You still run into the same problem of people trying to conserve their big skills for the boss, unless your battles demand that you spend them to survive. Then again, that can be done with "boring old" MP, so I really don't see what this adds without proper treatment and fleshing out.

Then again, if ATB resets every battle, you run into the problem of battles where players toss out high-end skills like loose change. In addition, what's stopping players from healing themselves to full HP outside of battle? Not MP, because you've discarded it. And if you fully heal after every battle, welp.

Here's an idea: build a normal, "boring", basic RPG and learn to balance that before you try to branch out and innovate. If you don't, odds are that you're going to end up with the same issues in your poorly-balanced "new and exciting" system as you would in a poorly-balanced traditional RPG.

I'm not exactly sure why you're going up this guy's ass; his idea is feasible and can be good if done properly.

Give the experiment a shot and see if it works in practice. The Legend of the Philospher's stone also had a unique ATB system, so take a look at that for reference if you're feeling stuck.
Hmm, I don't think I'm explaining the system very well. Yeah, i had forgotten The Philosophers Stone. It would be similar to that.

But i think the thing that crux of the system is the abilities themselves. You see, there wouldn't be Fire Fira Firaga Ultima. Powers would all have a use in one situation but not in another. So you couldn't just spam your most powerful ability because there isn't one ability that is simply a better version of another ability.

There might be a fire spell that does 100 damage to an enemy costing 3 Stamina. Another fire spell that does 50 to all enemies and costs 5 Stamina. A third might be a fire spell that sets an enemy on fire causing 150 damage but over 20 seconds and only uses 2 Stamina. So against a single, wimpy enemy, you should just use the normal fire attack. He'll be dead before 20 seconds and theres no reason to do 50 instead of 100 damage. But against a boss fight with 3 minions you might hit the boss with the periodic fire spell, blast the MT fire spell doing 50 to 4 enemies, then do the ST fire against the boss. This way, there is some actual strategy rather than just using your most powerful attacks all the time.

So, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, I was just hoping to make an interesting battle system. I'll play with it and see if I cant get a demo or something to explain better!

Oh i forgot to mention that you would return to full life after each battle because your LP or Constitution would determine your closeness to death. (not the greatest wording...)
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
See, that's the interesting part, not the fact that you're using cooldowns over MP. Should've mentioned it earlier.

(It's worth noting that you'll get farther with interesting skills than you ever will with "cool systemzâ„¢")
I think this is a very interesting and different idea.

The only flaw of this system is that your skills will be reduced to 5 tiers of powerfulness (though 5 tiers isn't too little by any means.)
Whereas the MP system can be limitless, though that itself is the MP system's downfall (making lesser skills completely obsolete.)
post=146596
See, that's the interesting part, not the fact that you're using cooldowns over MP. Should've mentioned it earlier.

(It's worth noting that you'll get farther with interesting skills than you ever will with "cool systemzâ„¢")


Oh ok! Honestly, I thought I would bore you with example skills. Well thats good! But its not cool down based, you can use any ability as long as you have the Stamina.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
Healing is definitely an issue. Will healing be usable outside of battle? I've seen games like Wild Arms where magic costs FP that builds up every round similar to your stamina idea, and they simply make healing spells not be castable except in battle. It worked well enough, though maybe that's just because it was almost irrelevant - you only got in about two random battles per dungeon anyway due to the series's various awesome ways of letting you skip battles.
post=146702
Healing is definitely an issue. Will healing be usable outside of battle? I've seen games like Wild Arms where magic costs FP that builds up every round similar to your stamina idea, and they simply make healing spells not be castable except in battle. It worked well enough, though maybe that's just because it was almost irrelevant - you only got in about two random battles per dungeon anyway due to the series's various awesome ways of letting you skip battles.


post=146595
Oh i forgot to mention that you would return to full life after each battle because your LP or Constitution would determine your closeness to death. (not the greatest wording...)


This is the right way to go here. Making you go through hoops to heal just promotes disabling the last remaining enemy and camping it until you're at full health, then finishing the battle.
post=146577
I've been trying to think of a battle system with an altered version of an ATB system. It would utilize what I call a Stamina bar that would be in 5 blocks. (Maybe 5 with half-blocks.) Characters would constantly generate Stamina and you could select any character you wanted at any time. As soon as they had enough Stamina to perform an action you wanted to do, you could pick them and use the ability.


Sounds like Chrono Cross, which is not a bad thing at all. Have you played it? It has one of my favorite battle systems ever. Although it's not ATB, because the action totally stops until you do something.

Oh! I didn't even think about that... Yes, I guess it would be similar to Chrono Cross, and it's even called Stamina, isn't it... (As an aside, I liked Chrono Cross for what it was, but I didn't like it as a sequel to Chrono Trigger (one of my all time favorites!))

I am considering adding a "wait" functionality and that would make it more like Chrono Cross. But the fundamentals would shift from CC at that point, because the actual abilities themselves are so different. I am attempting to create a tactical system where a player must utilize several skills per character to survive a battle.

Good analogy though, for people that are unsure how this would flow! Thanks :)
I thought about something like this for a sort of modern set game. Like instead of regular attacks you only had different fighting options like "punch" or "kick" that would consume MP. I wanted to just rename the MP bar stamina, really.

Altering the ATB bar seems more complex, but it sounds like a cool idea. I'd like to see what you can come up with.
While this game is fantasy, I am removing the concept of "Attack, Magic, Item" and replacing it with abilities with their own Stamina costs. Though modern would be fun :D

Currently, a character can have 4 or 5 abilities equipped at a time and a single Adrenaline ability which is much like a limit break or, more accurately, Super attacks in Street Fighter.

You may also have up to 8 passive abilities that improve the character in some fashion and/or augment one of your equipped abilities.

In addition, each character may have up to 4 items at the ready to use in combat if needed.
Oh! Now that sounds cool. I love passive abilities, and I don't think they have really been utilized in RM games that I have played *thinks of FF 9 with a certain fondness*.

I like the idea of switching out abilities and items that are kept in a 'ready to go pouch'. It might make managing characters a bit more engaging that equipping the usual sword and shield. Nifty.
post=147163
Oh! Now that sounds cool. I love passive abilities, and I don't think they have really been utilized in RM games that I have played *thinks of FF 9 with a certain fondness*.


Thanks! Yes, I loved FF 9, as well! The passive abilities are a little more engaging than the ones found in FF 9, and each one is equal in value, no crystal point system (which I liked, but it's not a good fit for this game.)

I like the idea of switching out abilities and items that are kept in a 'ready to go pouch'. It might make managing characters a bit more engaging that equipping the usual sword and shield. Nifty.


Yeah, I didn't clarify that, but you can swap out any ability or item when you're outside of combat. And I'd like to include a 'Retry' feature like FF 13 did, so that if you are fighting a boss that likes to toss out status effects, you can be sure to ready your status-cure abilities for the next run.

Also, I managed to come up with a good control scheme for a game with this combat system I'm proposing. At first, I thought if all 4 characters are constantly generating ATB (Stamina) and you have to swap back and forth between characters, all in real-time, it might become difficult to control. So I'm currently implementing a system I hope will work...

Thanks again for the feedback!
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