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BALANCING THE MONEY
Posts
captainregal
1356
captainregal
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CloseIn the recent review Mr. Nemo did of my game Glacia. He states rightly so that the gold the player receives is way to high. While part of this was due to the lack of necessary things he had to buy. Some of it was due to the fact that monsters were dropping to much money.
So I was thinking of ways to balance how much money the player should get. I want them to receive enough that they wouldn't feel cheated. But couldn't become badasses without proper grinding. So how does everyone balance their money. Is there a ratio I could use. Or is this sadly something else I will have to endlessly play test.
Sound Off
So I was thinking of ways to balance how much money the player should get. I want them to receive enough that they wouldn't feel cheated. But couldn't become badasses without proper grinding. So how does everyone balance their money. Is there a ratio I could use. Or is this sadly something else I will have to endlessly play test.
Sound Off
Aten
1570
Best solution:
1) Play your favorite game.
2) Monitor said games exp/money/item drop ratios
3) Tweak your own game accordingly (use your own flair of course)
4) ????
5) Profit!
1) Play your favorite game.
2) Monitor said games exp/money/item drop ratios
3) Tweak your own game accordingly (use your own flair of course)
4) ????
5) Profit!
ariedonus
41
Step 4 is the most integral to that method, hands down.
I tend to just do extensive play testing to balance my game's monetary system and whatnot. I try to look for the exploits I normally look for when I play other games and prevent them as much as I can. This is much easier to handle, in my opinion, if you have on-screen encounters that are limited in number or have respawn timers. Unfortunately, you can only see so much by playing yourself, so having those outside opinions is pretty helpful.
I tend to just do extensive play testing to balance my game's monetary system and whatnot. I try to look for the exploits I normally look for when I play other games and prevent them as much as I can. This is much easier to handle, in my opinion, if you have on-screen encounters that are limited in number or have respawn timers. Unfortunately, you can only see so much by playing yourself, so having those outside opinions is pretty helpful.
Yeah, extensive play testing is the only way; it's not something you can necessarily guess. Everyone plays games differently; some will choose to fight more monsters than others. If you're having a lot of trouble, have monsters drop either none or tiny amounts of money and by placing easy to find chests containing money you'll be able to essentially set the amount of money the player will have at the end of the dungeon. People that fought more monsters will be slightly more rewarded so that can buy slightly more (like Items, which they may need).
One last thing though, You HAVE to give them the option to be able to buy anything sold in that town when they reach it. As I said people play the games differently so give them a little more than they need so they can experiment and have a choice between items and weapons. Don't be generous but don't be stingy, something play testing will teach you. Good luck.
One last thing though, You HAVE to give them the option to be able to buy anything sold in that town when they reach it. As I said people play the games differently so give them a little more than they need so they can experiment and have a choice between items and weapons. Don't be generous but don't be stingy, something play testing will teach you. Good luck.
There's two ways you can give currency out: Lump sums (like from chests, bosses, and other one time events) or over a period (like from enemies and drops and other repeatable sources). One way of controlling how much purchasing power the player has is through lump sums. Examle: When the player clears Dungeon Doom and explore it, they'll find 10k in gold from chests and beating the boss but they only found about 2k from killing enemies+drops. I think while this is easier to balance it can hurt the player's fun if they find the rewards for regular enemies are lacking. The inverse rewards grinding, especially if regular encounters are fun, and kicks the balls of people who avoid it while making it more difficult to control purchasing power. It does give flexibility and if the player screws up a purchase/hits a rough spot/wants to power up and finds themselves low on gold it is much easier to replenish your gold stores. Find your game's balance between the two!
One important factor, IMO, is that money should never go out of style. Or, grudgingly, late in the same. Diablo 2 is notorious for this: In no time flat gold loses all its value besides blowing it on repairs and potions (and when you die (preemptive fuck you to any "heh I play hardcore :smug:") ). All the shops essentially sell garbage except that one in a million item. Even in FF4 when gold went obsolete I could at least go and blow it all on Elixers (YMMV).
One important factor, IMO, is that money should never go out of style. Or, grudgingly, late in the same. Diablo 2 is notorious for this: In no time flat gold loses all its value besides blowing it on repairs and potions (and when you die (preemptive fuck you to any "heh I play hardcore :smug:") ). All the shops essentially sell garbage except that one in a million item. Even in FF4 when gold went obsolete I could at least go and blow it all on Elixers (YMMV).
The first thing I do in all RPG is to try and buy 99 potions, almost all the time...
Eh, anyways. Shops shouldn't be really so great, either. The good stuff is supposed to be dropped from enemies/ found in the Stilshrine of Miriam(lol)/ Refined (somehow)/ etc...
...After all it's not exactly rewarding or fun for the player to be able to buy the super sceptre of queen Pocahontas, wich completely annihilates all foes and the user, in a shop in the end of the game. Why not in Queen Pocahontas grave? Also, I find annoying monsters that drop money, they should drop loot... But that's just me, anyways. *sleepy*
Eh, anyways. Shops shouldn't be really so great, either. The good stuff is supposed to be dropped from enemies/ found in the Stilshrine of Miriam(lol)/ Refined (somehow)/ etc...
...After all it's not exactly rewarding or fun for the player to be able to buy the super sceptre of queen Pocahontas, wich completely annihilates all foes and the user, in a shop in the end of the game. Why not in Queen Pocahontas grave? Also, I find annoying monsters that drop money, they should drop loot... But that's just me, anyways. *sleepy*
post=148555
...After all it's not exactly rewarding or fun for the player to be able to buy the super sceptre of queen Pocahontas, wich completely annihilates all foes and the user, in a shop in the end of the game.
Sure it is. Don't you feel a sense of reward for finally being able to afford that big screen TV/whatever after saving up for it for months?
Tonfa
150
I'm seeing advice for having the money mostly come from lump sums here. Going to play the other side of the argument here and say don't take it too far, make normal battles worthwhile. Few things are more miserable than blowing five potions to beat a random encounter and only getting one potion's worth of money for your troubles.
Goldenguy
855
The only real way to balance money is playtesting - there is some that can be done with number work and estimation but even then it's even more difficult than balancing experience given. The best I've been able to find has been playtesting, making sure I'm at the "intended" level at certain parts, and seeing what kind of spending power I have when the time comes.
Even then, there will be variation, especially if you don't use a fixed ratio of gold to experience given.
i.e. Player has 100 exp - did he kill 50 monsters that gave 2 exp and 3gp, or did he kill 25 monsters that gave 4 exp and 5gp?
Even then, there will be variation, especially if you don't use a fixed ratio of gold to experience given.
i.e. Player has 100 exp - did he kill 50 monsters that gave 2 exp and 3gp, or did he kill 25 monsters that gave 4 exp and 5gp?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
If the player can afford to buy everything, then money has no value.
You should always make it so that the player has to make real choices. If they can get practically everything that's important as soon as it becomes available, and their only limit is the number of healing items they can buy once they already have everything important, it feels like the game is on rails. This is not fun or challenging or exciting - it's boring, and if you're going to do it, you might as well just make everything but healing items free. Because that's really what you're doing already.
If done right, money has the ability to add more customization to your game, and give players a sense of importance to their decisions. If done poorly, it just feels like you get free upgrades at every town.
This is only tangentially related, but: if you are in the 95% of people who think that grinding is un-fun, you should probably not use a money-drop formula that strongly encourages it. That might seem like common sense, but it's amazing how many people don't consider how things like that interrelate.
You should always make it so that the player has to make real choices. If they can get practically everything that's important as soon as it becomes available, and their only limit is the number of healing items they can buy once they already have everything important, it feels like the game is on rails. This is not fun or challenging or exciting - it's boring, and if you're going to do it, you might as well just make everything but healing items free. Because that's really what you're doing already.
If done right, money has the ability to add more customization to your game, and give players a sense of importance to their decisions. If done poorly, it just feels like you get free upgrades at every town.
This is only tangentially related, but: if you are in the 95% of people who think that grinding is un-fun, you should probably not use a money-drop formula that strongly encourages it. That might seem like common sense, but it's amazing how many people don't consider how things like that interrelate.
Listen up kid, because I'm going to divulge the money making secrets your game is lacking.
I had an algorithm in Balmung that calculated the amount of money earned per enemy based on its difficulty, keeping every stat in mind. The best way to write the previously mentioned algorithm is in such a way that defeating a party of enemies can net you 1-2 healing items in a store per battle won.
What follows will require a small amount of effort on your half. You need to gauge a min/max amount of gold that can be earned per area and average that out. The total costs of new equipment between each available area should reflect that with a bit of randomization. This is pretty easy if you have an electric calculator, but if you are stupid and have random battles you'll have to factor in more variables to figure out how many average steps will be made in each hostile area.
The sweet spot is a place where full equipment upgrades are a bit out of the player's affordability range. They should have enough money to afford shiny new equips at each new shop, but not enough to upgrade everything. This creates a dilemma that the player will have to solve and will ultimately make the game marginally more interesting. With a few extra battles they can return knowing what they want to purchase.
If you are bad at balancing this and find the player is strapped for cash on basic necessities you can also just "give" things away by throwing chest items on the field adjusted to a curve for demand. This will require you to actually play through your game, however!!
The patented Balmung money management philosophy netted me 7 Misaos and 4 project imitations, so I'm stamping it with my personal seal of gurantee!!
I had an algorithm in Balmung that calculated the amount of money earned per enemy based on its difficulty, keeping every stat in mind. The best way to write the previously mentioned algorithm is in such a way that defeating a party of enemies can net you 1-2 healing items in a store per battle won.
What follows will require a small amount of effort on your half. You need to gauge a min/max amount of gold that can be earned per area and average that out. The total costs of new equipment between each available area should reflect that with a bit of randomization. This is pretty easy if you have an electric calculator, but if you are stupid and have random battles you'll have to factor in more variables to figure out how many average steps will be made in each hostile area.
The sweet spot is a place where full equipment upgrades are a bit out of the player's affordability range. They should have enough money to afford shiny new equips at each new shop, but not enough to upgrade everything. This creates a dilemma that the player will have to solve and will ultimately make the game marginally more interesting. With a few extra battles they can return knowing what they want to purchase.
If you are bad at balancing this and find the player is strapped for cash on basic necessities you can also just "give" things away by throwing chest items on the field adjusted to a curve for demand. This will require you to actually play through your game, however!!
The patented Balmung money management philosophy netted me 7 Misaos and 4 project imitations, so I'm stamping it with my personal seal of gurantee!!
post=148429
Best solution:
1) Play your favorite game.
2) Monitor said games exp/money/item drop ratios
3) Tweak your own game accordingly (use your own flair of course)
4) ????
5) Profit!
aten if you do that one more time i am going to request mod powers back just so i can find new and creative ways to brand you a 4chan nerd
Aten
1570
Do what? That's a pretty good solution. I did that myself. I followed Legend of Legaia's money drop ratios. which I think is just the right consistency and suits my game very well. Just play your favorite game, pay attention to the first hour or so of battles, note down the numbers. Work from there, add your own flair to it a little bit, and voila.
Then I followed Legaia 2's item drops for a while, because I liked how each encounter dropped like, 6 or 7 items and incorporated that into my game as well. (Infact, my entire material system is inspired from Legaia 2)
Even better, just get a FAQ of your fave game instead and then you can skip the "spend an hour researching" part since most FAQ's have a "encounter" or "drop" section.
I have no idea why you need to write that BS to me. I wasn't spamming. I just don't have time to make detailed posts like this, so I shortcut post.
Then I followed Legaia 2's item drops for a while, because I liked how each encounter dropped like, 6 or 7 items and incorporated that into my game as well. (Infact, my entire material system is inspired from Legaia 2)
Even better, just get a FAQ of your fave game instead and then you can skip the "spend an hour researching" part since most FAQ's have a "encounter" or "drop" section.
I have no idea why you need to write that BS to me. I wasn't spamming. I just don't have time to make detailed posts like this, so I shortcut post.
captainregal
1356
post=148811
Listen up kid, because I'm going to divulge the money making secrets your game is lacking.
I had an algorithm in Balmung that calculated the amount of money earned per enemy based on its difficulty, keeping every stat in mind. The best way to write the previously mentioned algorithm is in such a way that defeating a party of enemies can net you 1-2 healing items in a store per battle won.
What follows will require a small amount of effort on your half. You need to gauge a min/max amount of gold that can be earned per area and average that out. The total costs of new equipment between each available area should reflect that with a bit of randomization. This is pretty easy if you have an electric calculator, but if you are stupid and have random battles you'll have to factor in more variables to figure out how many average steps will be made in each hostile area.
The sweet spot is a place where full equipment upgrades are a bit out of the player's affordability range. They should have enough money to afford shiny new equips at each new shop, but not enough to upgrade everything. This creates a dilemma that the player will have to solve and will ultimately make the game marginally more interesting. With a few extra battles they can return knowing what they want to purchase.
If you are bad at balancing this and find the player is strapped for cash on basic necessities you can also just "give" things away by throwing chest items on the field adjusted to a curve for demand. This will require you to actually play through your game, however!!
The patented Balmung money management philosophy netted me 7 Misaos and 4 project imitations, so I'm stamping it with my personal seal of gurantee!!
Kid I'm 25...
Anyway I don't use random encounters, I use on screen touch encounters. So I think that it will work out well.
I am working on an upgrade system right now. So this advice should be very helpful. Thank you.
Heh, maybe you're 2 years my senior, but around here age is determined by Misaos. I wish you many of them in the future...
captainregal
1356
post=148816
around here age is determined by Misaos. I wish you many of them in the future...
Same to you.
Merlandese
3235
Replace money completely with a complex series of item bartering.
This is half joke. Scarlet SaGa: Ambitions did this, and I thought it was really neat. Enemies dropped things and you could basically use any of that to buy other stuff from a myriad of shops around the world. Maybe the scope is a bit too big for your solution, but I quite liked thinking in terms of trading all my Potions to get one Better Potion, or trading my Potions for Stinkweed and trading that for Waffles so I could trade the waffle guy for Waffle Spear +10.
EDIT: wait a minute what is up with the age of this am I a necromancer right now?
This is half joke. Scarlet SaGa: Ambitions did this, and I thought it was really neat. Enemies dropped things and you could basically use any of that to buy other stuff from a myriad of shops around the world. Maybe the scope is a bit too big for your solution, but I quite liked thinking in terms of trading all my Potions to get one Better Potion, or trading my Potions for Stinkweed and trading that for Waffles so I could trade the waffle guy for Waffle Spear +10.
EDIT: wait a minute what is up with the age of this am I a necromancer right now?
