GAMEPLAY IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS

Posts

post=151312
Those aren't stories.


Yes they are. A story just means a sequence of events. Are you saying these games don't have sequences of events?

I think you're confusing story with plot.
I thought a story had to fulfill the basic functions of being a narrative.
post=151321
I thought a story had to fulfill the basic functions of being a narrative.

A narrative is a story. A story doesn't have to be a narrative.
Describing what you are doing is not a story, at least, as far as game playing goes.

EDIT:
Where is someone with a Creative Writing degree when you need one?
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
Regardless, this is a semantic argument and not really relevant to the discussion.
Don't forget that these elements should be work together - post-apocalyptic graphics don't match with a happy children's story, for instance (except maybe for the 0,1% who like absolutely everything/are batshit insane)

I think a light hearted post-apocalyptic comedy would be batshit cool.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
post=151190
What is a game with broken gameplay? Same as a novel with broken plot, I suppose.

I'm not sure if this analogy is well served as plot is only a small part of what makes a novel as any writer can tell you. Or maybe that is how the analogy is meant? I honestly can't tell.

Mario would be the obvious example of this. The story is always the same, but the games are good because they have awesome mechanics.

There are at least variations. But historically, straying too far from the formula has been kind of disastrous for the mario franchise (IMHO). Of course, I hate change.

It's pretty undeniable that The Way and ABL are two of the most popular RPGMaker creations, no? Probably even the most popular, or close to being so.

Both games are rather dull in terms of gameplay. The Way has very tedious battles that are exactly the same, over and over again. Literally. You heal after every battle so you just use the same strategy every time... hundreds and hundreds of times to win. No one plays The Way for its gameplay. People play it for the story. The developer even later added modes to skip past the gameplay mechanics to the point where you can skip all the battles and puzzles and whatnot, but it still has the core ideas that make it a "game." And the same idea goes for ABL.

I wouldn't say LunC or Lys could never be "good" game-makers. I'm saying that the only part of being a good game-maker is not just making "fun" gameplay and that yes, stories do have a lot to do with it. If you don't have one it doesn't mean the game can't be "fun" (and I don't think Darken was saying that either) and some games would even be better off without a story. But some games would be better off without gameplay either.

Azn, it's not often I flat out disagree with you, but the gameplay in A Blurred Line is not dull, it is AMAZING.

Even The Way, while much less good on a gameplay level (retarded/broken CBS), has a lot of very interesting and addictive features to its gameplay.

I don't know if I've ever played a GOOD RPG Maker game (good story) with BAD or WEAK gameplay. The closest I can think of is Love and War, but then again I found the story in that a little on the tedious side as well although the characterization was spot-on and conspicuously a labor of love.

Yes they are. A story just means a sequence of events. Are you saying these games don't have sequences of events?

I think you're confusing story with plot.

Um, a PLOT just means a sequence of events. A story is a narrative, combing plot and other elements (characters, etc.).
Good design is the only thing that matters.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
post=151350
Good design is the only thing that matters.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
"man I hate good proper discussion maybe a witty one-liner will make them stop"
my secrets revealed
post=151323
Describing what you are doing is not a story, at least, as far as game playing goes.


I'd say that in those games, the amount of story is comparable to the amount of gameplay in visual novels.
To me, objectives are truely what drive players to play through games, not gameplay,story alone etc. All these attributes are pointless if they don't have objectives. Good gameplay comes with well-constructed rules and objectives. Good stories have well-constructed goals and objectives. So yea.

On a side note, graphics and Sounds would be more on the appearance side than the objective side. And that's why a game with pretty graphics and sounds but weak gameplay and story will never prevail. They do not have objectives. They are just viewing and listening pleasures.
TFT
WHOA wow wow. two tails? that is a sexy idea...
445
post=151250
What are you talking about, Cave Story is fucking awesome in every single way.


this.
post=151344
Azn, it's not often I flat out disagree with you, but the gameplay in A Blurred Line is not dull, it is AMAZING.

Even The Way, while much less good on a gameplay level (retarded/broken CBS), has a lot of very interesting and addictive features to its gameplay.

Really? The gameplay in both of these games was a disaster. I played ABL to finish the story. Its convoluted skill learning system, unbalanced battles, frustrating grindfest dungeons and reverse difficulty (hard, becomes easy) made this a pain in the ass, but I did finish it.

The Way... Well, I stopped playing that when a million grindfest battles popped up everywhere. I actually only played this game to see what happened, but I've heard that the last episode sucks so I never bothered.

I guess that about sums up my general response to this topic: even if the gameplay sucks I have found other reasons to continue games - though I would prefer the gameplay to not suck?

You can analyze what makes things fun all you want (and I encourage it, really), but at the end of the day what is fun varies from person to person. Just look at the reviews for Beautiful Escape.

Yes they are. A story just means a sequence of events. Are you saying these games don't have sequences of events?

I think you're confusing story with plot.
Um, a PLOT just means a sequence of events. A story is a narrative, combing plot and other elements (characters, etc.).

This is probably because Azn went to Wikipedia or something for their definition, where the terms story and plot are described in a somewhat misleading and obtuse manner. To clarify a bit more:

In the big picture, the plot is the events within a story that tie said story together, and allow it to be told in a cohesive manner. Things like "the dragon sets fire to the village", or "the princess was kidnapped" are plot elements. They are part of the plot of the story.

There is a contentious debate over a proper definition for 'story', but one I like is:

"A story may be defined as a collection of events which, when collated, provide some degree of meaning."

The definition is quoted and analyzed here, though I find the article writer's fiddling with the definition unnecessary: http://onlyagame.typepad.com/only_a_game/2005/08/story_plot_narr.html

Narrative: Sometimes used interchangeably with the word story, as Max said, but can also be used to refer to the semblance/voice (depending) of a story, or rather how the story is being told. The person who wrote the above article talks about it too, and I agree with him.



This is also all totally off-topic! Just rambling.

post=151498
post=151250
What are you talking about, Cave Story is fucking awesome in every single way.
this.

^

The thing about Cave Story is that the aesthetics, while not as 'advanced' as some random shitty 3D FPS, are totally appropriate for the subject matter. The creator obviously had a very specific vision when he created the graphics, and followed through on it. Making them 3D or outrageously detailed/flashy would be like adding lens flares to Mario 3 or strobe lights to Pong's background - it's there, but it's probably distracting, and is the game any better for it?

That's probably one of the reasons I couldn't get into New Super Mario Bros., now that I think of it.
The thing about Cave Story is that the aesthetics, while not as 'advanced' as some random shitty 3D FPS, are totally appropriate for the subject matter. The creator obviously had a very specific vision when he created the graphics, and followed through on it. Making them 3D or outrageously detailed/flashy would be like adding lens flares to Mario 3 or strobe lights to Pong's background - it's there, but it's probably distracting, and is the game any better for it?

this, this, exactly this, very this. this is the same case with stuff like dwarf fortress or the new megaman games. the developer has gone in with a deliberate idea of how the graphics are going to look and be relevant to the context of the game, regardless of the shiny technology available. this is just as valid as making TECHNOLOGICAL TERRORS like, idk, crysis or something
post=151501
This is probably because Azn went to Wikipedia or something for their definition


lol you got me
My issue is, I can only seem to come up with gameplay ideas and not story or anything else. Kinda leaves me in a bad spot because I can't really do anything with just gameplay. No one wants a battle simulator.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
post=151510
My issue is, I can only seem to come up with gameplay ideas and not story or anything else. Kinda leaves me in a bad spot because I can't really do anything with just gameplay. No one wants a battle simulator.

If you can't hammer out even the most hackneyed story, it's probably better to commit to another genre than RPGs. Other genres such as platformers can get away with little story, as the player generally comes into the experience expecting something different for entertainment than a person sitting down to play a visual novel.

This field of entertainment has become so diversified and mainstream now that even various niche genres can continue to thrive even when the original target audience has long since moved on. It's that same diversity of interest that proves the original statement in the OP was probably made by some two-bit hack like Adam Saltsman