PLAYERS X EXPERTS - OUR ATTITUDE ON PLAYING GAMES

Posts

TFT
WHOA wow wow. two tails? that is a sexy idea...
445
bad reviews will prevent me from downloading a rad looking game. that's how serious they are.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I would go far as saying that it doesn't matter if Solitayre's reviews help developers improve their games, because they prevent players from playing that game, so what's the point in improving it? I've had my download count on several projects SHUT DOWN by low star reviews. The decrease in download rate was REAL AND PALPABLE after a review of 2 Stars or less was posted. I mean, maybe the review itself is full of great pointers that make me want to take my game TO THE NEXT LEVEL but that is kind of canceled out when my downloads per day drop from 12 to 0.5. At BEST, it's a wash.

I think if developers can respect the fact that reviews are there to help regardless of their rating, reviewers really need to respect the fact that people won't PLAY low-rated games.

Man, I disagree completely. The point of posting a game in a game development community is to make it better. Plain and simple. Getting people to play it is never the goal. My one and only goal here is to improve my games. To that end I engage in lots of discussions on forums about what makes a good game, and I try to help other people out in order to foster a spirit of helpfulness in the community. But if all the other members of the community do is play my game and not offer any feedback or criticism, then I've wasted my time. If they're playing my game just to enjoy it, then that obviously is certainly good for them, but it's not good for me.

This is a game development community, not a game enjoyment community. Developing games is our number one priority. You're allowed to enjoy them, but not at the expense of the development process. Not here, at least. Feel free to post reviews like that on a site designed for players, but here, I'd prefer it if every single person who played my game gave me twenty pages of criticism. That's why I posted it.
post=153738
This is a game development community, not a game enjoyment community. Developing games is our number one priority. You're allowed to enjoy them, but not at the expense of the development process. Not here, at least. Feel free to post reviews like that on a site designed for players, but here, I'd prefer it if every single person who played my game gave me twenty pages of criticism. That's why I posted it.
That is not a fair call. If your perspective is that of being a game developer, it does not mean this site is not just as much geared towards the players of our games.
I think sharing our games for people to play and improving our games hold equal priority. They go hand in hand actually; I want to improve my games so that more people can enjoy them.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
@Illustrious: I'd wager less than 10% of people who visit this site are gamers who have no intention to design their own game.

Realistically I think it's more like 0%, but I'm being polite.

@Sunshine: I disagree. I want to improve my games so that they're better games. I don't care if anyone plays them. Art is created for its own sake, not for the people who would look at it.
As a side note, this topic is all about keeping a positive attitude towards things, and though I was specifically talking about PLAYING a game, it should about as well to writing reviews, reading reviews, receiving feedback, etc. I'm saying that because I don't agree with this "if I see a two star rating, I don't play the game" notion. Won't you at least read that review?

Even in the process of criticism, I guess some people don't understand quite well the real difference between constructive and destructive feedback. No matter how clever your feedback may seem, it doesn't always help the guy making the game, or anybody else. If you see a game that's completely tragic like, say, Pizza Panic, at the same time you see a lot of room for improvement, you should know that the guy who made it is probably not very skilled, so you can expect him to improve, but not much, not quickly. So there's no point in telling him "lol empty maps horrible design", but there's also not much point on telling him "you should add some depth to your characters", or "you should use a tileset that actually looks like a pizzeria", because YOU KNOW he's not gonna do that. It is not within his capabilities, therefore it is NOT constructive criticism. I truly hope the guy who made that game never reads what I'm saying, because I would never go into his gameprofile and say "this game is tragic".
@Sunshine: I disagree. I want to improve my games so that they're better games. I don't care if anyone plays them. Art is created for its own sake, not for the people who would look at it.


I don't think many people would agree with that, but it's been discussed in another topic.
@Locke Z: Not only is that number not founded on anything tangible, but I can't even agree that sounds about right.
Playing other games is just as important to me as making my own, so I am already a drop against that statistic.
I would find it hard to believe most of us are trying to make the best game possible so we can keep it to ourselves.
Wanting to share games is part of the reason rpgmaker on the PS2 is considered pointless amongst a lot of this community.
I don't care if anyone plays them.

Yeaaaaah I'm calling bullshit on this too lol.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Fine then, let's compromise. Don't post so much criticism publicly; send it privately to the designer instead.

But please, please, please, send it. Always send it. Always. PLEASE. Every single problem you find. To not do so is to say to the creator, "I don't care about helping you improve, either because you're a lost cause or because I just don't care about helping anyone."

Every time someone plays my game and doesn't give me any advice about it, I almost cry. No, really. That is the worst thing they could possibly do to me. It just says to me, "I don't really care about your game."
post=153753
Every time someone plays my game and doesn't give me any advice about it, I almost cry. No, really. That is the worst thing they could possibly do to me. It just says to me, "I don't really care about your game."


So if people playing your game is not important to you, then what does it matter what their feedback is about your game? After all, you are not making it with their interests even in mind. Just make what you like and what you feel is good, critical reception wold be totally irellevant.
post=153753
But please, please, please, send it. Always send it. Always. PLEASE. Every single problem you find.


Believe me, you do not want that.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
I try to cater to players who offer feedback without "selling out"; for instance, I won't go and make some of my Carlsev characters likable just because people are turned off by their personalities/actions, but I will try to give them a bit more characterization to make them more interesting as a whole.

I think finding a balance is good. I want people to enjoy my games, but I also want to use the medium as a sort of artistic expression.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
post=153762
post=153753
But please, please, please, send it. Always send it. Always. PLEASE. Every single problem you find.
Believe me, you do not want that.

Uh, yes, yes I do. I have a hard time imagining anyone who would create something and not want that, though I realize there are people out there whose self-esteem is so mind-bogglingly low that it bothers them when people tell them ways they could be better.

post=153760
So if people playing your game is not important to you, then what does it matter what their feedback is about your game? After all, you are not making it with their interests even in mind. Just make what you like and what you feel is good, critical reception wold be totally irellevant.

No, that would be a bullshit philosophy, I'm not capable of making my work perfect on my own. I'm not the absolute judge of quality, and I'm often too close to my own work to recognize the problems until they're pointed out to me. I don't want to make a game that's just pleasing to myself - I want to make the best game possible.
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15150
post=153744
@Illustrious: I'd wager less than 10% of people who visit this site are gamers who have no intention to design their own game.

Realistically I think it's more like 0%, but I'm being polite.


Erm. Visions & Voices has almost 6,000 downloads. We don't have anywhere near 6,000 developers on this site.
Yeah I think the "social scene" is populated with a lot of developers, but when it comes to visitors... who the fuck knows?

Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15150
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