WHY RPG AND NOT ACTION ADVENTURE?

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Are you making an RPG out of genuine love of RPG mechanics (numbers going up) or is it because we're used to having RPGs as the 'storytelling genre'...or both?

There have been times when I've looked at certain ideas and thought 'why is this an RPG again?' and had to reassess things. It's easy to get stuck in a pattern where you take the DBS for granted and think about everything BUT the battle system, and that doesn't feel right to me. Thankfully, a playthrough of Dragon Quest 3 -- as pure a JRPG as you can get -- reassured me that I do like the genre.

If there was an 'Action Adventure Maker' as easy to use as RPG Maker (And was not bad, like IGM), would you jump ship? Heck, 'FPS-along-the-lines-of-Deus-Ex maker'...?

And your game ideas -- do they start with a mechanic or a story idea?
Both.

To me, RPG's have been the place for storytelling, even if the older ones weren't very story-oriented. That and games that don't let me get stronger by repetition bother me. I mean, I'll play a game that has no level-up mechanics, but they make it far too easy to get stuck in a rut and have to start all over. At least with RPG's I can train before I go into the dark spooky cave.
Might have something to do with there being more room to cram in strategy in battles, compared to action adventure where movement is also a factor.

Well, I'm actually making an action adventure sort-of-game in rm2k3. Since it's stretching the borders outside of the engine's original purpose, I do sense the limitations and the extra work. Still won't stop me from finishing though.
RPG's gave you time to think. If I wanted a sudden rush of excitement I'd go play a FPS or (gasp) get off my ass and go to the gym.
post=203845
Are you making an RPG out of genuine love of RPG mechanics (numbers going up) ...

Oh YES hey why not make it an Action RPG now we're talking you see!

RPG's gave you time to think. If I wanted a sudden rush of excitement I'd go play a FPS or (gasp) get off my ass and go to the gym.

It is my goal to create an experience that requires you to be light on your feet as well as your head. It will be a rush of adrenaline like Ninja Gaiden, but destroying your arrow keys and Z key won't get you too far either. The reason I'm so big on Action RPGs is because I feel the normal ones lack any sort of feel for battle.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Anyone who picks RPGs as their genre of choice just for storytelling purposes is either stuck in a time warp to the early 90s, or just messed up in the head. I haven't played any action or adventure game in the last decade that didn't have a story. Any game with a character is expected to have a story.

There are definitely things I love about RPGs. I love the emphasis on making intelligent tactical choices instead of relying on player reflexes and coordination. There are also definitely things I hate about RPGs, though. I hate the fact that any possible challenge can be removed by the player by grinding mindlessly until the enemies all become trivially easy. In my upcoming game I'm attempting to place a huge focus on the tactical combat, and find a way to remove the ability to break the game via grind.

If I didn't have any good original gameplay ideas, I wouldn't be making a game. That's not to say I didn't make my last game despite have no good original gameplay ideas. My last game was comparable to FF4 in terms of complexity and customization, though it does better at providing a challenge. And I did start it with a story in mind more than anything. But I at least had *some* gameplay ideas, even if some of them didn't end up getting put in due to time issues, and others got put in but didn't quite have as big of an impact as I had hoped. They were all very derivative ideas though. Even if everything had fallen perfectly into place with no problems, I just wasn't as good of a game designer back then. My ideas worked, but weren't interesting.
When it comes to pure storytelling, games are inferior to the other media in most aspects. It's the interactivity and game mechanics that makes this media stand out. My main interest for RPGs over classic storytelling media is that I can suspend the main plot to do some other interesting things.
I agree with Locke. You need to love RPG mechanics in order to choose this genre as your medium of presentation and storytelling. It has nothing to do with the storytelling stigma that RPG gaming has carried around with it for decades.

To resolve problems with players overgrinding, you simply fix available resources and force the player to overcome the odds only with whatever was given to them. It gives you as the developer an unreal amount of control on how exactly your conflicts will unfold.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
post=204257
Anyone who picks RPGs as their genre of choice just for storytelling purposes is either stuck in a time warp to the early 90s, or just messed up in the head. I haven't played any action or adventure game in the last decade that didn't have a story. Any game with a character is expected to have a story.
Could you make a love triangle like Cloud's in an action game? ..yeah, don't like your argument.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Uh, yeah, of course you can. Exactly what is stopping you? I've played tons of action games with love stories built into them.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
Then there must be loads of piss poor action games about.

EDIT: Fine I'll elaborate. I do not want an intricate love story in between stages consisting of BOOM BAM KABLAMO. This does not work. If I am going to have a love story in a game at all it'd be better off in an RPG where your mind isn't always focused on incoming monsters!!!, i.e. is allowed to drift a bit (this happens a lot to me in many RPGs, in situations such as monotonous grinding/travelling between places I've already visited)
the most romance you can get in an action game is alucard stabbing a minotaur in the face
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Not all action and adventure games have as strong of a focus on character-driven story as you might like. Not all RPGs do either.

The last five RPGs I played were Etrian Odyssey 3, Fallout 3, Dragon Age: Origins, Pokemon Platinum, and Final Fantasy 13. Of those, only FF13 is really strongly story-driven. DA:O has a good story, but it's certainly not character-driven, and the middle 80% of the game has very little story. The other three have almost none to speak of.

The last five action and adventure games I played were Metroid: Other M, Star Fox Command, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Bayonetta, and Tales of Monkey Island. I don't play as many games of this type so they're admittedly not as new. But they seem to have fairly well developed stories, at least as good as RPGs. Star Fox Command is probably the least story-driven of them, but it has a love triangle. Admittedly none of them are quite as heavily story-driven as FF13, but that's rare even among RPGs these days.

post=204370
I do not want an intricate love story in between stages consisting of BOOM BAM KABLAMO. This does not work. If I am going to have a love story in a game at all it'd be better off in an RPG where your mind isn't always focused on incoming monsters!!!, i.e. is allowed to drift a bit (this happens a lot to me in many RPGs, in situations such as monotonous grinding/travelling between places I've already visited)

God, I hate this. I hate the way you phrased this, the way you think about this. RPGs are better for stories because everything else in them is boring and uninteresting? BULLSHIT. That just means that those RPGs should have been made better, to keep the player excited. No game should ever be boring at any point. If it is, it's a failure as a game. Games should be entertaining, that's the entire point of them.

If you just don't like the guy to get the girl inaction games, then might I suggest a genre other than action? I hear that Phoenix Wright games are pretty fun. The guy always gets the girl in action movies, though. So I don't know what you're complaining about.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
Oh dear.

RPGs are better for stories because everything else in them is boring and uninteresting?
Uh I did by no means say 'everything else'. Don't put words in my mouth.

No game should ever be boring at any point. If it is, it's a failure as a game
That's a tall order as gamers' opinions of what is 'boring' and what is not can vary. Also, no one in their right mind would find grinding interesting but if it allows you 100x enjoyment later on, surely it's an option? Not that I support grinding myself, but I can see how some people would be tempted to do it. Grinding is usually not 'everything else' anyway. Neither is travelling from place to place. I'm not sure how you came up with this point, honestly!

If you just don't like the guy to get the girl inaction games, then might I suggest a genre other than action? I hear that Phoenix Wright games are pretty fun. The guy always gets the girl in action movies, though. So I don't know what you're complaining about.
I suggest avoiding a love story altogether! I'm not sure where this paragraph came from, it's a mess.
I like RPGs for the roleplaying aspects mostly. Of course these can be applied to any genre. And if there was an FPS maker with as many presets and resources as RPGmaker and as easy to use (and hell. even if it was as bad) I'd jump ship in a second. But that's probably because I want to make a game like Deus Ex or Max Payne... But who doesn't?

I don't mind RPG mechanics though I'm not overly in love with them. I can understand the value of +1 sword of slaying but for me I guess actually the story is what matters. And the roleplaying. I love roleplaying. But boy do I hate some computer roleplaying games out there :D

My ideas tend to begin with a story or a hook. Then I try to design the mechanics around it so it fits a theme. And then eventually I come up with a plot. After (as a true roleplayer) I've spent ages worldbuilding and generating characters and doing all the fun stuff. (I never get past these fun stuff)


post=204367
Could you make a love triangle like Cloud's in an action game? ..yeah, don't like your argument.
post=204380
I suggest avoiding a love story altogether! I'm not sure where this paragraph came from, it's a mess.
Of course love stories are best avoided. But it's easy enough to make a love story equal to FFVII in any genre out there. (including, I bet, some puzzle games.)
Could you make a love triangle like Cloud's in an action game? ..yeah, don't like your argument.


I am pretty sure I have seen it done quite a few times in action games. Hell, the relationship between Mona Sax and Max Payne in the Max Payne series is more interesting than most love stories in RPGs.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
I can't think of any action games involving hours upon hours of time spent with a certain bunch of characters, in which relationships are built, enemies are fought (together) and ideals are delved into (together). My point is there is a lot more potential for love stories in RPGs than in action games; don't read too much into my example.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
But, uh, using a character in battle doesn't help develop the character's personality. It just helps develop their role in battle. I admit that it's easier to give a character dialogue if the character is always present, but you can pull that off in action or adventure games too. Sometimes this involves having computer-controlled NPCs fight alongside you, and other times it involves having them just be in communication with you. Look at the comm chats in Metal Gear Solid games for a good example. Or the discussions with Midna in Zelda: Twilight Princess.

So my point is, there's no excuse to feel restricted. If you want to tell a story, you should try to tell it in the type of game you're best at designing gameplay for.
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