ARE SAVESTATES CHEATING?

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Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13715
I've been playing Super Mario World for the first time, and I suck at games. As such, I've been savestating my game right before some levels, or at checkpoints in levels that give me a hard time. I really don't like doing it - I am not a cheater, and it feels like cheating to me - but I find that I can enjoy the game more when I can die 800 times and not have to replay two levels to get back to the castle.

I don't do it for every level, only those that give me real trouble, or if I'm really proud of myself - I escaped Vanilla Dome 3 with a cape and Yoshi, so I was pretty ecstatic! Not that it's helping me much in Vanilla Dome 4, which I've taken at least twenty shots at by now...

So, is this cheating? I mean me, specifically, as well as savestates in general. Personally, I feel that both are cheating, but in my case it's for my own enjoyment, no matter how much I dislike it.
are you still enjoying the game? then no, you're not cheating yourself out of anything
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13715
Coincidentally enough, I just beat Vanilla Dome 4. Lost my cape and Yoshi, but found all of the dragon coins.
KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1219
Save states in a technical sense is cheating, since I can reload the save state and get a possibly better outcome (games based around RNGs come to mind). As long as I'm enjoying myself though, things like "cheating" really become inconsequential.
Yes it's cheating.

But since you're not playing multiplayer and destroying the experience for other people...

Who cares?
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
21237
With SMW, that is hardly cheating, especially the way you describe it. It's like you go back and do that super easy Ghost House in world 2 to save the game and then come back. You are just cutting out that tedious chuff by using savestates. If anything, you are circumventing a poor design decision (not being able to save anywhere).
Hexatona
JESEUS MIMLLION SPOLERS
3787
Some games are just harder to play on an emulator, or are just cheap.

When I felt like playing Megaman X on an emulator, I was able to finish it much quicker using save states, and the game felt very cohesive. I had to do it this way because hitting the keys wasn't as fast as hitting buttons.

Or playing parodius or gradius or some shit is just painful without savestates.

Sure, sometimes savestates can be abused and cheapen a game, but they can really take out the long and boring parts of games, and make them more fun most of the time.
Save states help with letting the player choose how they want to play. Save anywhere? Sure! Make it easy to repeat that one section that you fucking hate, are terrible at, and failing means burning more time getting back to where you started? Yeah! (oh no now the game isn't as tedious hard as the devs intended
). How about drop a save state right before that really cool fight so you can replay it whenever you want?


Love savestates and I use them regularly and it's one of the reasons why I don't even bother with real hardware even when available.

There are times where I feel it is cheating though, like save stating your way through a level/boss simply by rewinding every time you make a mistake. I think it cuts out learning from your mistakes and improving your skills unless it's something blatantly awful or requiring memorization to beat because that kind of design is awful.
Save states in a technical sense is cheating, since I can reload the save state and get a possibly better outcome (games based around RNGs come to mind). As long as I'm enjoying myself though, things like "cheating" really become inconsequential.

Why raise your speech too much in Fallout 3 if you can just reload yourself until you win? And the game lets you do this since you can save/reload almost anywhere. They should have just thresholded it like the stat/skill checks only with chr+speech+disposition as the value.
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13715
Yeah, I don't abuse quicksave/load in Oblivion/FO3 like that. It takes the fun out for me.
author=geodude
are you still enjoying the game? then no, you're not cheating yourself out of anything


Cheating is not subjective.
that would be relevant if we were discussing something that has clearly defined rules that can be broken but since there aren't any rules about using savestates when you are playing a video game...
I laughed so hard when I saw this topic!

Play an NES Megaman game and you'll see just how badly save states can be cheating. I mean, it's kinda mandatory to beat it unless you're some kind of an NES god, but yeah, really cheating. There's no shame in admitting it though.
I think cheating is using anything outside of what the game gives you.

That being said, savestates are okay as long as you aren't using them as a way to break the game, i.e. kill a difficult boss. It is okay, imo, to cut out the time it takes to even get to the boss so you don't have to wander around, round up items, get things needed for said boss when they're gone after you die.

But despite that, I used save states to defeat bosses in Sunset Riders. Yes that is cheating. And even then, I couldn't defeat the Indian Chief boss. That was just... wtf hard.
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
5799
Technically I think save states are cheating, yes.
But who the hell cares?
cheats, every one of you
btw anyone who has said "ugh cheats *snort*" should probably give their reasoning
technically any action outside of the set of actions allowed by the gaems design is breaking the rules so yeah you are 'cheating'

buuuuut

call it 'cheating' or 'bypassing that fucking 9 hour cutscene' or whatever it doesnt really matter cuz if the endgoal is to get the most out of the game then it just comes down to: do you trust the developers design to provide an adequate balance of fun/challenge at a reasonable pace or do you need to change the game to enjoy it more

unless you are competing in some way with other people (i.e. playing multplyr or scorebragging) theres nothing inherently bad about altering the rules to fit your own needs whatever negative connotations 'cheating' carries
Depends why you're doing it. If you're doing it to avoid having to redo something you already did then I wouldn't consider that cheating, but if you're doing it to abuse random item generation from chests (or something similar) then you are cheating.
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