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Mewd
1501
Mewd
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CloseHere's a discussion topic:
In your game project, whatever it may be, what area of development do you focus on particularly?
Is it all about the story, cutscenes and presentation to you? Can cutscenes go to hades if you're not happy with the game-play? Do you adore tinkering and figuring out PRECISE mechanics of the control scheme and battle engine, scripting mini-games and custom menus and battle systems? Are you a pixel artist who can't stand inconsistency in graphical style? Is original music important to you, or do you just toss in Final Fantasy midis you nabbed off VGmusic.com? What's important to your design philosophy?
Ideally, we should be well rounded when developing games, but I would imagine that the majority of us have our predispositions towards certain areas. If we're skilled in an area, or just favor it highly, realizing that aspect of the game is a higher priority for us.
Personally, I adore scripting, writing and tinkering with cutscenes. I respect all other areas of design, but I am talentless when it comes to graphic and music work. I am pathetic when it comes to raw code and programming work. I do, however, have some delusions about my writing ability. I am most satisfied with my projects when I think my cutscenes are well presented.
If your game project was perfect in ONE aspect, and significantly flawed in every other area, what would you want that perfect aspect to be?
In your game project, whatever it may be, what area of development do you focus on particularly?
Is it all about the story, cutscenes and presentation to you? Can cutscenes go to hades if you're not happy with the game-play? Do you adore tinkering and figuring out PRECISE mechanics of the control scheme and battle engine, scripting mini-games and custom menus and battle systems? Are you a pixel artist who can't stand inconsistency in graphical style? Is original music important to you, or do you just toss in Final Fantasy midis you nabbed off VGmusic.com? What's important to your design philosophy?
Ideally, we should be well rounded when developing games, but I would imagine that the majority of us have our predispositions towards certain areas. If we're skilled in an area, or just favor it highly, realizing that aspect of the game is a higher priority for us.
Personally, I adore scripting, writing and tinkering with cutscenes. I respect all other areas of design, but I am talentless when it comes to graphic and music work. I am pathetic when it comes to raw code and programming work. I do, however, have some delusions about my writing ability. I am most satisfied with my projects when I think my cutscenes are well presented.
If your game project was perfect in ONE aspect, and significantly flawed in every other area, what would you want that perfect aspect to be?
Reijin
0
I believe in an RPG, the story should ALWAYS be the first thing on your mind since you'll be reading a lot. If someone doesn't like the story, it doesn't really matter how many bells and whistles you have.
I'm the opposite of Rei. I honestly think the game needs to move quickly and just be fun to control. Sure, a lot of RPGs are just text-based menus, but those can be fun if what they control is fun.
A favorite example of mine is the NES game Crystalis. The story in that game suffers from a terrible translation, and doesn't really make any sense. But the game is great because of the varied locations and just the ability to run around and stab things.
A favorite example of mine is the NES game Crystalis. The story in that game suffers from a terrible translation, and doesn't really make any sense. But the game is great because of the varied locations and just the ability to run around and stab things.
Despain
415
In most of my games, especially in Sandfall, it's all about atmosphere. A consistent and unified, detailed and rich, setting really makes the game and is something that I always try to hit. Graphics are obviously very big here, but it goes beyond that, into sound, as well as map design and the dialogue of the most irrelevant NPC. My worlds need to feel alive. It's about immersion into the experience, and I think that the atmosphere is really key in making a lasting impression.
After that would be the story and the characters.
I don't consider gameplay in here, because gameplay should be an element in everything and not a single focus. Rather than being a priority, it's a sort of super-priority that is weaved throughout everything else. It's the reason that we're not writing books- these games are meant to be interactive. Thus, gameplay factors into all other aspects of the game design. For example, gameplay and atmosphere blend in Sandfall- as you explore the cities and walk past certain NPCs, sound effects can be heard to reflect the surroundings.
After that would be the story and the characters.
I don't consider gameplay in here, because gameplay should be an element in everything and not a single focus. Rather than being a priority, it's a sort of super-priority that is weaved throughout everything else. It's the reason that we're not writing books- these games are meant to be interactive. Thus, gameplay factors into all other aspects of the game design. For example, gameplay and atmosphere blend in Sandfall- as you explore the cities and walk past certain NPCs, sound effects can be heard to reflect the surroundings.
Yes, making the world feel alive should be one of the top things on the list, however, for me it would be the storyline, someone like me likes to make it so that nothing is there for no reason (Except the minor NPCs that you see around towns etc.) Someone like me likes to make sure that everything actually happens for a reason.
I like to makesure that nothing is overly cliche in my storyline, the villian needs to have a good enough reason to be a villian, and they need to have a deep, interesting background and a complex character. These are the things that I work on first (Characters along with the storyline.) Once that is done it is the atmosphere, then gameplay.
I like to make sure that everything is of good quality though so it wouldn't really mater what I prioritise I would want to make sure that everything was the best I could make it.
I like to makesure that nothing is overly cliche in my storyline, the villian needs to have a good enough reason to be a villian, and they need to have a deep, interesting background and a complex character. These are the things that I work on first (Characters along with the storyline.) Once that is done it is the atmosphere, then gameplay.
I like to make sure that everything is of good quality though so it wouldn't really mater what I prioritise I would want to make sure that everything was the best I could make it.
prexus
309
In terms of the order of design, I think Story takes priority. Knowing exactly how the story progresses, from Event A to Event B to Event Z, is a great foundation. After you have that, creating the game is really just fill in the blanks.
After that, I agree with Despain. Even though Gameplay is a big deal, Atmosphere makes the difference. Even a game with poor gameplay (read: Sandfall demo) can be enjoyable if the atmosphere is immersive and the characters interesting. RPGs are Graphic Novels with gameplay elements. It can be strong in one area (The Graphic Novel Area), the Gameplay area, or both. Any can really make the game good.
WIP's example of Crystalis is a good one. Poor story and atmosphere, great gameplay. Fun game. Sandfall, interesting story and great atmosphere, poor gameplay. Fun game.
After that, I agree with Despain. Even though Gameplay is a big deal, Atmosphere makes the difference. Even a game with poor gameplay (read: Sandfall demo) can be enjoyable if the atmosphere is immersive and the characters interesting. RPGs are Graphic Novels with gameplay elements. It can be strong in one area (The Graphic Novel Area), the Gameplay area, or both. Any can really make the game good.
WIP's example of Crystalis is a good one. Poor story and atmosphere, great gameplay. Fun game. Sandfall, interesting story and great atmosphere, poor gameplay. Fun game.
But can we distinguish the type of games, first?
Crystalis is first and foremost an action RPG. For that, I honestly believe gameplay should be most important. You want a Final Fantasy RPG, then story should be key.
I have games like Jump! and Push! where the main thing I focus on is gameplay and the story is there as more of a mockery of games--intentionally. But then for other projects I've worked on like Rêve and NotSuikoden, I think story pushes on first.
So really, it depends on what type of game you want to end up making.
Crystalis is first and foremost an action RPG. For that, I honestly believe gameplay should be most important. You want a Final Fantasy RPG, then story should be key.
I have games like Jump! and Push! where the main thing I focus on is gameplay and the story is there as more of a mockery of games--intentionally. But then for other projects I've worked on like Rêve and NotSuikoden, I think story pushes on first.
So really, it depends on what type of game you want to end up making.
Umbaglo
398
I believe story is an important thing to work on first, but not because I believe in games requiring an awesome story. To be honest, most commercial games I play don't really have good, let alone awesome, stories. Pokemon is an amazing game, but the story is so weak it might as well not be there.
So why should I work on story? Because I need something to base everything else on. I start off with making an outline of things, then work on making everything else make sense within that.
But what I tend to focus on myself is the internals. I'm not good with graphics, and I won't say that my writing is awesome, so I tend to work a lot with systems and the way things work.
So why should I work on story? Because I need something to base everything else on. I start off with making an outline of things, then work on making everything else make sense within that.
But what I tend to focus on myself is the internals. I'm not good with graphics, and I won't say that my writing is awesome, so I tend to work a lot with systems and the way things work.
Chartley
50
I think the most important area for me is the characters/dialogue. They're the ones that make a game interesting, they get you interested in the story. You could take the most cliche plot, and make it interesting through good dialogue and characters.
After that, it's the gameplay. The gameplay for me is nothing special, it's never really good custom systems, but I try to make everything as smooth as possible. No annoying sounds anywhere, and just generally well made, but not complex.
And then the plot. I don't think the plot is as important as people make it out to be. It CAN completely make a game amazing (See ABL and Sunset Imdahl), but it isn't really required for a great game.
After that, it's the gameplay. The gameplay for me is nothing special, it's never really good custom systems, but I try to make everything as smooth as possible. No annoying sounds anywhere, and just generally well made, but not complex.
And then the plot. I don't think the plot is as important as people make it out to be. It CAN completely make a game amazing (See ABL and Sunset Imdahl), but it isn't really required for a great game.
Mewd
1501
Despain rises great points on atmosphere. Creating an all encompassing theme or style to a game is very remarkable when it is fully achieved.
Ill Fate: Here's the thing, I figure we don't have to distinguish the type of game being made, because your priorities would probably define what sort of game you would WANT to make in the first place. If you're a writing buff, you will want a genre that will allow you plenty of opportunity to write cutscenes and outline plots. If you're a mechanics fan, you will probably daydream about complicated gameplay systems. Et cetera. People are liable to lean towards what they're talented at, or just generally like.
I have to agree with Chartley, Oistin.
Some times people worry a little TOO MUCH about cliches. It's certainly good to strike out on your own path, but it is entirely possible to take a tired old idea and make it interesting again. The realm of fiction is very, very old and you really can't get by without utilizing old ideas at some time or another. The trick is to make sure you use them in an interesting way.
For instance, the RPG Maker community seems to abhor 8-bit era, fairy tale RPGs. Princesses needing saved, elemental crystals and what not. But over the years it has UTTERLY ABUSED the 'Ancient demon war' motif to the point that I'm tempted to quit any game that starts rambling about one in its introduction. This does not mean, however, that a good game cannot be made with that plot device. It does, however, give such a game the burden of distinguishing itself from every other game that is using the same idea.
Ideas are like fashion sometimes, though. Old ideas eventually become fresh with age, after everyone has stopped paying attention to them. Sometimes, being 'original' just means ignoring current trends.
Ill Fate: Here's the thing, I figure we don't have to distinguish the type of game being made, because your priorities would probably define what sort of game you would WANT to make in the first place. If you're a writing buff, you will want a genre that will allow you plenty of opportunity to write cutscenes and outline plots. If you're a mechanics fan, you will probably daydream about complicated gameplay systems. Et cetera. People are liable to lean towards what they're talented at, or just generally like.
I have to agree with Chartley, Oistin.
Some times people worry a little TOO MUCH about cliches. It's certainly good to strike out on your own path, but it is entirely possible to take a tired old idea and make it interesting again. The realm of fiction is very, very old and you really can't get by without utilizing old ideas at some time or another. The trick is to make sure you use them in an interesting way.
For instance, the RPG Maker community seems to abhor 8-bit era, fairy tale RPGs. Princesses needing saved, elemental crystals and what not. But over the years it has UTTERLY ABUSED the 'Ancient demon war' motif to the point that I'm tempted to quit any game that starts rambling about one in its introduction. This does not mean, however, that a good game cannot be made with that plot device. It does, however, give such a game the burden of distinguishing itself from every other game that is using the same idea.
Ideas are like fashion sometimes, though. Old ideas eventually become fresh with age, after everyone has stopped paying attention to them. Sometimes, being 'original' just means ignoring current trends.
Blind
2262
In terms of the games I play, it varies. I tend to pick up a variety of games for a multitude of reasons. While generally I'm inclined to be a fan of games that harbor an interesting storyline-- I rarely would discredit a game without one, (Mario, for example) as long as it is enjoyable.
I feel that a game should focus on what it can do well and not try to be something that it's not, and use its draws to interest the player effectively. It all really depends on how nesscessary the particular element may be within the game itself... not whether it is a universal priority of mine.
However, since I presume this discussion is in regards to our own games-- I would have to say that I most definitely DO focus myself in specific areas more than others, as much as I'd hope for a balance. My concerns are rather superficial, to be blunt about it. Presentation is of utmost importance to me, as are the characteristics that go along with it (Competent Map Design and Atmosphere, An effective/ambient soundtrack, and an overall cinematic experience).
Storytelling also has precedence for me, but I generally aspire to deliver an emotional and engaging experience rather than a convoluted plot or nonsense symbolism.
I feel that a game should focus on what it can do well and not try to be something that it's not, and use its draws to interest the player effectively. It all really depends on how nesscessary the particular element may be within the game itself... not whether it is a universal priority of mine.
However, since I presume this discussion is in regards to our own games-- I would have to say that I most definitely DO focus myself in specific areas more than others, as much as I'd hope for a balance. My concerns are rather superficial, to be blunt about it. Presentation is of utmost importance to me, as are the characteristics that go along with it (Competent Map Design and Atmosphere, An effective/ambient soundtrack, and an overall cinematic experience).
Storytelling also has precedence for me, but I generally aspire to deliver an emotional and engaging experience rather than a convoluted plot or nonsense symbolism.
DFalcon
2141
For my own development, usually gameplay.
In terms of what I play, I tend to agree with FAIF. I'm flexible enough to accept a range of games, but the important thing is that the game puts its strongest foot forward - I can think of a few RM games with decent story that are just ruined for me because I spent 2/3 of the time in repetitive and boring battles. (Legend of the Philosopher's Stone and The Way come immediately to mind; whereas in, say, Love and War the battles aren't necessarily more interesting gameplay-wise but they take up much less time.)
In terms of what I play, I tend to agree with FAIF. I'm flexible enough to accept a range of games, but the important thing is that the game puts its strongest foot forward - I can think of a few RM games with decent story that are just ruined for me because I spent 2/3 of the time in repetitive and boring battles. (Legend of the Philosopher's Stone and The Way come immediately to mind; whereas in, say, Love and War the battles aren't necessarily more interesting gameplay-wise but they take up much less time.)
trance2
500
I think the one thing that I focus on most when I'm making a game is the consistency of the game, whether it be for presentation or for gameplay. Consistency is something that not a lot of RM games nowadays seem to have; complete consistency is something that I strive for. If it fits in, it's good. If it's glaring different, I'm not using it. Same goes with musical consistency, gameplay consistency (making sure everything does the same thing every time), and character/story consistency.
Story is what I usually work to make "perfect" after overall consistency. It actually kind of ties into the whole consistency thing, since if a character does one thing, then does something completely inconsistent with their characterization, then that character becomes unbelievable, something you do not want to deal with when you're playing.
My major pet peeve when I'm playing a game is consistency, though you can't blame too much of the community for being inconsistent in areas such as graphics and sound. I still get a tick whenever I see clashing graphics, though. After that, if the gameplay is fun, then I'll keep going. If it's boring and pedantic, then I'll move on. Because no matter how good the story is, if the major meat of the game isn't fun (the gameplay), then there's no reason to get through the rest of it, unless the story is THAT good (and it's pretty rare in this community that it is; I'm still waiting to be proven wrong).
Story is what I usually work to make "perfect" after overall consistency. It actually kind of ties into the whole consistency thing, since if a character does one thing, then does something completely inconsistent with their characterization, then that character becomes unbelievable, something you do not want to deal with when you're playing.
My major pet peeve when I'm playing a game is consistency, though you can't blame too much of the community for being inconsistent in areas such as graphics and sound. I still get a tick whenever I see clashing graphics, though. After that, if the gameplay is fun, then I'll keep going. If it's boring and pedantic, then I'll move on. Because no matter how good the story is, if the major meat of the game isn't fun (the gameplay), then there's no reason to get through the rest of it, unless the story is THAT good (and it's pretty rare in this community that it is; I'm still waiting to be proven wrong).
Mewd
1501
Consistency is such a NICE thing to see in RPG Maker projects just because so many projects just take resources from any source available.
It does do wonders for the atmosphere too, if everything matches.
I have a pet peeve about graphical consistency and sprite rips in games. Outside of the fact that it's always glaringly obvious when the graphics were taken from a professional game, they tend not to fit in with everything else. This is hard to avoid since RPG Maker is an attractive program to people who can't make their own graphics, sound or code. Though the more remarkable projects tend to be made by people who CAN use graphics, sound, code and story together effectively.
Consistent characterization is rarely a big issue when I am playing other people's games, though. Mainly because very few games actually realize their characters WELL are also pretty good at maintaining continuity with those characters. Consistent story telling, on the other hand, is a rare treat.
It does do wonders for the atmosphere too, if everything matches.
I have a pet peeve about graphical consistency and sprite rips in games. Outside of the fact that it's always glaringly obvious when the graphics were taken from a professional game, they tend not to fit in with everything else. This is hard to avoid since RPG Maker is an attractive program to people who can't make their own graphics, sound or code. Though the more remarkable projects tend to be made by people who CAN use graphics, sound, code and story together effectively.
Consistent characterization is rarely a big issue when I am playing other people's games, though. Mainly because very few games actually realize their characters WELL are also pretty good at maintaining continuity with those characters. Consistent story telling, on the other hand, is a rare treat.
Despain
415
I've given up on hoping for consistently long ago sadly. These days it seems like a blessing. ;_;
Mewd
1501
author=The Real Brickroad link=topic=8.msg146#msg146 date=1181161281
Nudity.
Oh. I believe he's played the trump card.
Rue669
1098
Story for me. Even if the game has poor (or even zero) gameplay I will still plug through it for the story. I think story, especially for indiegames, have to be strong becuase, let's face it, our graphics and gameplay can't match with commercial games. Story is what grabs our players and keeps them there, at least from my experience. I've yet to play a indie game that has better gameplay than a commercial game (or better graphics, but I'm not much of a graphics whore anyway).
Second, for me, would be making cool scenes/events. That's pretty big. Like events after and before boss battles or discovering something important in the game or a twist or a war scene, etc. I like to call these scenes "reward scenes". It's like the creator is saying... you've played this far or beat this hard boss/dungeon, here is your reward! They make a huge difference, I find. I think that's why I hated Valkyrie Profile 2 so much... it had ZERO of these. Or what it did have was poorly and boringly done.
Second, for me, would be making cool scenes/events. That's pretty big. Like events after and before boss battles or discovering something important in the game or a twist or a war scene, etc. I like to call these scenes "reward scenes". It's like the creator is saying... you've played this far or beat this hard boss/dungeon, here is your reward! They make a huge difference, I find. I think that's why I hated Valkyrie Profile 2 so much... it had ZERO of these. Or what it did have was poorly and boringly done.
The Real Brickroad
2626
author=Rue669 link=topic=8.msg181#msg181 date=1181243909
Story for me. Even if the game has poor (or even zero) gameplay I will still plug through it for the story.
So you're the reason they keep making Xenosaga games. Thanks alot man.
