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Creation
An avid lover of Heartache 101
1446
Hello fellow members,

I would like to know your opinion about the front page. What I'm looking for is for as many opinions as possible, some sort of extensive survey if you will.

The Front Page has been the source of much debate in the past (when Ciel created a discussion thread about the issue a few months back). Since there will be some important updates soon to come, I would like to specifically discuss the blogs and the latest game.

Here are my questions:
1. Do you think that there should be a cool-down period before being allowed to blog again? Yes or no? If so, how long do you consider would be reasonable?
If you are against specific rules regarding blogging, would you be for or against guidelines?

2. Do you think there should be a cool-down period before updating games? Yes or no? If so, how long do you consider would be reasonable?

I would appreciate if you could share your comments free of sarcasm or demeaning wit. The objective is not so much to start a debate as to get the pulse of as much as the community as possible about this, everyone is entitled their opinion.
1. I would hate to enforce arbitrary restrictions on a gameprofile. But if we do, I'd make it a short cooldown, somewhere in the neighbourhood an hour - that way someone can't just spam blogs.

2. hell no.

NEW! 3. Henceforth, you are not allowed to abuse the Latest Games system on the frontpage by updating your main download every few hours so that you are bumped up to the top of the list (and thus remain on the front page ribbon). Violators will have their game download date pushed back. Repeated violators risk having their game download removed entirely.
Yeah, I guess blogs would be more appealing to browse through if I had more faith that I wouldn't just be checking out a series of tweet-worthy status updates. But like Kentona said, I don't know how I feel about putting restrictions on users. Maybe it would be cool if (incoming technical feat of uncertain scope) users could post as many blogs as they wanted, but if they posted several updates within a day's time, all that would appear on the blog list would be the latest one with a side link: "See more of today's blogs about this game."

Not sure how convenient or effective that would be, but it wouldn't limit the developer's ability to post and would minimize the clutter for browsing users.

And yeah, I don't think limiting new downloads is a good idea. I've had plenty of times where I just uploaded the wrong version or something.
Creation
An avid lover of Heartache 101
1446
Here's my opinion:

For 2:
NEW! 3. Henceforth, you are not allowed to abuse the Latest Games system on the frontpage by updating your main download every few hours so that you are bumped up to the top of the list (and thus remain on the front page ribbon). Violators will have their game download date pushed back. Repeated violators risk having their game download removed entirely.

Yay, we finally agree on something, this calls for a celebration ^___^!

For 1:
I would impose a cooldown period (and longer than an hour). I'd say at least 24 hours. I can't honestly say there's any reason to blog twice a day about a project. Even posting daily is too much in my opinion but I'd go for a 24 hours compromise.




I think that for 1. Drakonis has a pretty good idea if you could get the site to display only the most recent blog for a game in the recent blogs.
If that isn't possible, I don't think there should be a very big cool-down, but that they should be recommended not to post more than 1 a day.
Perhaps we could also limit blog posts to 3 a day and 7 a week or something.

For 2: not at all, but to avoid abuse you could simply make a game only go to most recent if it's last download was more than a couple days old or something.
if that wont work or is impractical then this should do the trick:
author=kentona
NEW! 3. Henceforth, you are not allowed to abuse the Latest Games system on the frontpage by updating your main download every few hours so that you are bumped up to the top of the list (and thus remain on the front page ribbon). Violators will have their game download date pushed back. Repeated violators risk having their game download removed entirely.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
I honestly don't see why anyone could possibly be bothered so much by someone posting multiple blogs. If someone is capable of creating a ton of interesting content over the course of a day, who are you to decide that they shouldn't be allowed to put it on the front page?

If you are concerned that people are abusing the feature to try to keep their game on the front page (I am seriously doubtful anyone has ever done this for this reason) then the solution is to make sure it is known that spamming the front page with 5 one sentence blog posts is discouraged, and, if necessary, take action against repeat offenders. The way to properly interact with a userbase is to promote an atmosphere of mutual respect and personal responsibility, not to take away their toys like they are children. Do not punish the majority for the actions of the minority (that is largely imaginary, in my opinion.)
(I am seriously doubtful anyone has ever done this for this reason)

hello davenport. (hence the implementation of Rule #3)

But yes, I agree with Solitayre's reasoning. I just couldn't articulate it like he did.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
To elaborate, I am of the opinion that the vast majority of users are using the blog function maturely and responsibly. I do not think someone having more than one blog on the front page is a big deal because the blogs tend to move pretty fast anyway. But for some users to take it as a perceived slight when a user occasionally does "abuse" the function and for this to result in a unilateral and fairly arbitrary restriction of content management for all users is something I find irritating on principle.
Creation
An avid lover of Heartache 101
1446
I honestly don't see why anyone could possibly be bothered so much by someone posting multiple blogs.
I would tell you but I am under the impression that you've already decided it's irrelevant, so I won't. In case I'm mistaken, I would gladly explain to you why it can bother some people.

If someone is capable of creating a ton of interesting content over the course of a day, who are you to decide that they shouldn't be allowed to put it on the front page?
So, in other words, who am I to have a different opinion than your own. I don't have an answer to that, Solytaire.

The way to properly interact with a userbase is to promote an atmosphere of mutual respect, not to take away their toys like they are children.
I don't know but I don't feel a lot mutual respect in your post :).
What if mutual respect involves establishing rules that facilitates it?


Do not punish the majority for the actions of the minority (that is largely imaginary, in my opinion.)
That's interesting, does a behaviour need to be done by the majority in order to be ''punished''? Is limiting blogs to one in 24 hours a cruel punishment?

Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=Solitayre
To elaborate, I am of the opinion that the vast majority of users are using the blog function maturely and responsibly. I do not think someone having more than one blog on the front page is a big deal because the blogs tend to move pretty fast anyway. But for some users to take it as a perceived slight when a user occasionally does "abuse" the function and for this to result in a unilateral and fairly arbitrary restriction of content management for all users is something I find irritating on principle.

While the majority do treat it with respect and maturity, some people just don't -get- it. I saw a blog post go up last week - it was one line, informing everyone that the project was going on hiatus. Now, informing people of a status change in your project is a valid reason to blog. However,

the game in question had 0 subscribers. I hate to break it to you, but obviously, nobody cares, and that one-line blog post was useless garbage shoving interesting writing down below it. This is extremely egregious to me. You can't even justify that this person's blog draws attention to their game and might get them subscribers, because it was announcing that it's on hiatus ANYWAY.

Without pointing fingers, there's a blog update currently announcing that an update will be coming. Why announce that you will be adding something later? Just add it and make the announcement. Otherwise it's tantamount to updating your download repeatedly - cries for attention.

In summation, I do not support arbitrary restrictions on blogging and updates, but I do support a warning system. There's no reason why these people shouldn't have it explained to them why they are being rude (especially in cases like the person posting one line blogs to 0 subscribers).

If someone is capable of creating a ton of interesting content over the course of a day, who are you to decide that they shouldn't be allowed to put it on the front page?

I'm sorry, but when was the last time you saw an explosion of fascinating genius getting 5 blog posts in a day full of rich and meaty content??? This is so the opposite of the described problem, I'm flabbergasted. I don't support arbitrary restrictions either, but this just doesn't happen. It's a very obtuse argument.
well, if you plan on punishing the majority for that behaviour, then, yeah, a certain threshold of abusive behaviour (by, say, the majority) should be met.

That is, we are punishing everyone for the behaviour of a very select few occurrences. We are punishing them by taking away control of when they can post blogs.

Who are we to decide that people who want to post interesting content frequently shouldn't be able to?

I am in agreement with Solitayre - make it a rule not to spam the frontpage, but punish the specific occurrence of unacceptable behaviour as they come up, rather that implementing an arbitrary cooldown to enforce it.
You could also implement a button for users that sends automatic messages to mods telling them that certain blogs are spamming. Just an easier way to report things since they wouldn't have to hunt down the mods.

This could also go beyond the scope of blog spamming and be used for any type of reporting.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
Creation, you are most definitely allowed to have a different opinion than I am and I would never discourage that. I would not want to be a part of a community where people can't disagree with each other. =)

However, most people I've seen yelling about blogs were people irritated that their own blogs had been pushed off the front page. Is trying to create an environment which actively discourages or arbitrarily restricts people from posting blogs to allow your own content to remain on the front page longer less abusive? (I am not saying this is your position.)

I am entirely in favor of promoting good blog content, and yes, anyone who abuses site functions should be dealt with. What I am not in favor of is arbitrary restrictions being placed over the entire userbase, when in fact very few people seem to be committing any abuse.
author=Creation
Hello fellow members,

I would like to know your opinion about the front page. What I'm looking for is for as many opinions as possible, some sort of extensive survey if you will.

The Front Page has been the source of much debate in the past (when Ciel created a discussion thread about the issue a few months back). Since there will be some important updates soon to come, I would like to specifically discuss the blogs and the latest game.

Here are my questions:
1. Do you think that there should be a cool-down period before being allowed to blog again? Yes or no? If so, how long do you consider would be reasonable?
If you are against specific rules regarding blogging, would you be for or against guidelines?

2. Do you think there should be a cool-down period before updating games? Yes or no? If so, how long do you consider would be reasonable?

I would appreciate if you could share your comments free of sarcasm or demeaning wit. The objective is not so much to start a debate as to get the pulse of as much as the community as possible about this, everyone is entitled their opinion.


Cooldown period can't hurt, but guidelines can. There are way too many game pages and too few staffers to strictly enforce this. The only way would be the let RMN members report a blog that doesn't meet the guidelines, and with that course of action, we become a police force, and not a community.

Two blogs per day (12 hours) would be my suggestion. Or, maybe even 18 hours would be more fitting.
@WCouillard: the thing about guidelines is that you don't have to strictly enforce them, in this case, The only time they need to be enforced is when someone is spamming the front page.
I don't think they would be very hard to enforce in this situation.
How are the majority being punished for a restriction that they'll never see?

Besides, if you have multiple blog posts of actual content you can
1) Combine them into a single blog post based on the quantity of content and kind of feedback expected. Feld posting a blog that gets fifty posts of people discussing game design should be by itself but two blog posts about completing something is probably better suited for being in a single post.

2) Space it out. The world isn't going to end in twenty four hours nor are you going to lose all your subscribers as their tastes become radically defined. Have some patience.

One frame of mind is that you're punishing the majority. If I make my five super content blog posts I just wiped an extra four additonal blog posts that had the misfortune of being right before mine right off the front page. Sorry four other guys! Sure five blog posts will always knock out five people (maybe even yourself!) but at least you give the other four some front page time.

(Nobody cares abuot the fifth, somebody will always be knocked out when making a blog post. There'll always be a victim but you can use some self restraint to make it just a)
I will say that I do support an automated rule enforcement policy.

During my first week here I broke some of the invisible rules of this site, rules that were not posted in any welcome package that was emailed to me, as well as not stickied in the Help and Request section of the forum, and was flamed heavily for posting two blogs in one day or uploading three images in one day that almost made me wonder why I even joined if all I could look forward to was contempt and bile. (I did not know the mechanics of the site, and I was not familiar with RMN at all)

That being said I stuck with it and followed the unwritten rules and have been much happier for it. If these rules were mechanically enforced that issue would not happen.

Some may say that perhaps I was a special case, but I find that unlikely. At the very least, a warning page could appear on your screen when you attempt to post for the second time in a day, asking if you're really sure, for instance. As for updating games, if it doesn't bother the mods much having to reapprove it, then I say update as much as they want, however, it'd be nice if it didn't reset their position on the front page unless there was at least a week? i between.


author=kentona
NEW! 3. Henceforth, you are not allowed to abuse the Latest Games system on the frontpage by updating your main download every few hours so that you are bumped up to the top of the list (and thus remain on the front page ribbon). Violators will have their game download date pushed back. Repeated violators risk having their game download removed entirely.


I'm a little unclear about this, maybe a tad concerned. Lots of games are released with game breaking bugs and thus the users are forced to upload new versions. Often times it cannot be helped if they have no/bad testers, and even when that isn't the case, things sometimes are overlooked. What I'm saying is, I don't think we can fairly judge if someone is taking advantage of the front page in such a way. From what I've seen, users always blog about a new version and explain why they're replacing the download anyway. Are we planning to call them out on this, or are we just aiming at those users who do not explain why they are replacing their download?

Also, isn't taking our game downloads back down to zero punishment enough?
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=sbester
What I'm saying is, I don't think we can fairly judge if someone is taking advantage of the front page in such a way.

From what I've seen, users always blog about a new version and explain why they're replacing the download anyway.

That seems like a pretty fair point to start judging. Also, kentona did say "every few hours" which leads me to believe someone was doing this WAY too frequently - people doing legitimate game updates don't need to worry unless they are doing this several times a day. (I know Fey had about 3 download updates, but they were spread across 2-3 days. Obviously not egregious.)
Creation
An avid lover of Heartache 101
1446
Creation, you are most definitely allowed to have a different opinion than I am and I would never discourage that. I would not want to be a part of a community where people can't disagree with each other. =)
Well, that's cool to read because I got to say your previous post didn't give this impression :D.

However, most people I've seen yelling about blogs were people irritated that their own blogs had been pushed off the front page.
That'll make me a good advocate then since I seldom blog myself :).

I don't think they're yelling, I think that's an exaggeration ;). Just because we disagree with something doesn't mean we're breaking furniture and smashing guitars at home. Disagreement doesn't mean yelling (well not always anyway). So yes, they disagree.

I'm part of the people who get annoyed when 1 line blogs push well written blogs into oblivion, I admit it (that and 2-3-4 blog combos). I think that if a person spend a good deal of time writing an informative blog and gets off the front page in 5 minutes (I'm not talking about myself here) is entitled to be annoyed/irritated by that. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

Is trying to create an environment which actively discourages or arbitrarily restricts people from posting blogs to allow your own content to remain on the front page longer less abusive?
I also think this is an exaggeration. Surely you will agree there a limitation of 12-/18 hours is hardly discouraging anything. I mean, come on, is it really *that* bad. Again, this is a different perception but I just don't think it's anything remotely closed to a PUNISHMENT FROM HELL. It's a limitation, it's not like we're not used to it (see RL).

when in fact very few people seem to be committing any abuse.
My question earlier was relating to that. If there's only a minority of offenders, than it would restrict a… minority of people (those are irresponsible). How is this detrimental to the community? Wouldn't you say it would actually be beneficial to the rest of the community who use the system responsibly? Don't you think that's fair?

Who are we to decide that people who want to post interesting content frequently shouldn't be able to?
Could we stop the «who are we» rationale? Since when have people stopped making moral judgment about other people's behaviors? I mean you are judging that people should be allowed absolute freedom to blog. That's your judgment. Who are you to judge? Well, you're just like everyone else and are entitled to judge a certain situation just like people other people are allowed to judge the situation differently. It's not like existing without evaluating and judging things is possible anyway.

Who are we to judge that someone shouldn't update their game every four hours to keep their game on the front page?

make it a rule not to spam the frontpage, but punish the specific occurrence of unacceptable behaviour as they come up, rather that implementing an arbitrary cooldown to enforce it.
And what would the rule be? «Guys, don't flood the frontpage.»? What is considered spamming varies greatly from one person to another. It would be the equivalent of saying: «use your common sense» which is the equivalent of how things work right now=no rules at all.

Again, I disagree about the notion of punishment but that's fine, I respect your different perception.

If compulsive blogging by a minority is at times detrimental for the majority, who are we to just give free reign to whoever feels like doing? It's like the freedom of people who flood the front page is more important than the contributions of those who don't. Since when was absolute freedom for everyone ever a good thing for a community.

That being said I stuck with it and followed the unwritten rules and have been much happier for it. If these rules were mechanically enforced that issue would not happen.

Some may say that perhaps I was a special case, but I find that unlikely. At the very least, a warning page could appear on your screen when you attempt to post for the second time in a day, asking if you're really sure, for instance. As for updating games, if it doesn't bother the mods much having to reapprove it, then I say update as much as they want, however, it'd be nice if it didn't reset their position on the front page unless there was at least a week? i between.
Yeah, that's very true (I mentioned that in the private forum). Most people who I contacted about abusive blogging were always really nice and friendly. 90% just didn't know.



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