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CUT SCENES: HOW LONG IS TOO LONG?
Posts
ubermax
0
ubermax
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CloseWell, a lot of what is said in the cut scenes also pertains to certain relationships between characters. I want the player to care about them, so that when shit starts getting real it'll have more of an impact. I could delay the "shit getting real" part to give the relationships time, but then that'd just make things drag.
I may have to sacrifice a certain amount of story for game play, if it comes down to it. Which is sad, because it won't be the game I want it to be, but at least it will be playable.
I may have to sacrifice a certain amount of story for game play, if it comes down to it. Which is sad, because it won't be the game I want it to be, but at least it will be playable.
author=Craze
Liking something and thinking that it's quality are two different things. For example, you might like your girlfriend?
hahahahahahahahaha
cho
0
author=Max McGeeauthor=Crazehahahahahahahahaha
Liking something and thinking that it's quality are two different things. For example, you might like your girlfriend?
(sick burn)
ubermax
0
I may have hit upon a compromise. The suggestion of making the cut scenes skippable did not sit right with me, but it did get me thinking about interactivity. Instead of presenting the player with a skip button, I instead plan to offer the player the ability to skip certain sections of dialogue if they don't feel they need to go through it. A question will be posed to the player, and they can choose to either continue discussing the current topic, or to simply say, "We don't have time for this" and move on. That way, the depth is available for those who want it, and avoidable for those who don't.
Though, and I can't stress this enough, I really hope people choose the former over the latter. It would make for a richer gaming experience all around.
Though, and I can't stress this enough, I really hope people choose the former over the latter. It would make for a richer gaming experience all around.
imho 1-3 minutes should be enough. Any longer is scary.
I died laughing X'D
author=Max McGeeauthor=Crazehahahahahahahahaha
Liking something and thinking that it's quality are two different things. For example, you might like your girlfriend?
I died laughing X'D
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=ubermax
The suggestion of making the cut scenes skippable did not sit right with me
I don't think I'd ever skip a cut scene I hadn't seen before. I see skippable cut scenes as a tool for people who have watched the cut scene before and died, or who have played the game before - not as an option for people who are going through the game for the first time. That said, I'm sure there are people who would just skip every single sentence of dialogue given the chance, because they don't actually read it anyway even when it's not skippable.
If the story for it is good, and, the game and the game-play is good, a long cut scene isn't too bad. But maybe do this. Have an option to have the cut scenes in 'Long Sequence' or 'Short Sequence' and if clicked short, a little message pops up showing the story you'd be missing by not watching the actual cut scene.
A little summary. So they know the basics of the story during that cut scene.
A little summary. So they know the basics of the story during that cut scene.
Illustrious
520
author=Shinan
I have a version of the three-tile rule called the five-textbox rule. If you have a dialogue or cutscene with five textboses in a row you've probably lost the audience. In a dialogue-choice game it's fairly easy to stop this. Just give the player a dialogue choice every five or so exchanges.
The 5 textboxes/ throw in something formula has the feel of rush hour traffic. Too much stop and go. The driver probably wants a short stop at a light and then GO GO GO! Now a player doesn't so much mind a stop if it is something meaningful. The scenic drive with a stoplight here and there. If this short stop in the action is capped around 5 textboxes though, I imagine a story that feels like Final Fantasy 13.
Lightning: Up ahead, something about an obstacle.
Hope: Oh forget it, I don't have the will to do this. $^%$^% Snow.
Vanille: Cheer up, Lols, and Tee hee.
Lightning: More like stop being a baby!
Lighning: Let's go!
And this is when FF 13 uses even more than 5 "textboxes" to say something like that. If your you want story to totally take a backseat to your gameplay, I guess it works. But keeping with that rule, I can't imagine you are saying enough about your story to someone who wants story the most. You can offer a choice or make an event that breaks the text up. Hopefully, the player gets to do some activity consistently and isn't always sidetracked.
TLDR: The five textbox rule would be hard to adopt universally. It works if your game can probably stand alone based on action. You might not be doing enough for those who enjoy a meaty story.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Five textboxes isn't five lines. It's twenty lines. Though in RM2K3, they're admittedly pretty short lines.
Also, he didn't mean that should be the length of a cut scene. He meant that someone should walk around or perform some action as part of the cut scene, non-interactively, before the next textbox appears. I think this is good advice; cut scenes should involve characters doing things, walking, moving around. It gives the appearance of the story moving forward. Show, don't tell.
Also, he didn't mean that should be the length of a cut scene. He meant that someone should walk around or perform some action as part of the cut scene, non-interactively, before the next textbox appears. I think this is good advice; cut scenes should involve characters doing things, walking, moving around. It gives the appearance of the story moving forward. Show, don't tell.
Illustrious
520
My FF13 example may be a cheap shot, but it was simplified to show my impression.
I wasnt saying 5 lines, Just these textboxes may contain two sentences or basically still be saying one thing without too much detail. Hardly the kind of space to tell exciting stories in. I did take it Shinan was trying to lay out his rule for ALL scenes. But the scenario you describe is acceptable to me. In RM, I know of games that do pace pretty much every scene like theres a 5 line rule, and they come off about as meaningful as my FF13 example.
I wasnt saying 5 lines, Just these textboxes may contain two sentences or basically still be saying one thing without too much detail. Hardly the kind of space to tell exciting stories in. I did take it Shinan was trying to lay out his rule for ALL scenes. But the scenario you describe is acceptable to me. In RM, I know of games that do pace pretty much every scene like theres a 5 line rule, and they come off about as meaningful as my FF13 example.
Neophyte
155
This is not a cutscene issue, this is a "how long can we take control away from the player" issue.
A cutscene can happen in real time, while you are still in control of your character. A lot of old school games were unable to do this for various reasons, but modern games are able to direct a story while still giving the player control. In Half-Life, you don't all of a sudden lose control when Alyx yells "WATCH OUT!", and time doesn't suddenly come to a halt (until you press enter to get rid of textbox) when your characters banter in Mass Effect. Unless you are creating a highly scripted scene where things have to happen in a timely fashion, you can still give control to the player. It shouldn't be "give control, no story happens" or "story happens, no control given". There are ways to create a seamless experience.
Obviously, this is mostly out of the scope of rpgmaker games for technical reasons. And of course you want to create things interesting and entertaining, but also create an in depth story as well. Lots of games have journal systems, or something where you can access the menu and go into a log that is like a dictionary for your game, which holds character bios and world information. It's good for getting to the meat in cutscenes, and gives you the option of "hey, this is here if you want to know a lot more about this game world." The new Tactics Ogre for PSP had a really really good system on it.
edit: and animations. have lots of animations. animations for everything.
A cutscene can happen in real time, while you are still in control of your character. A lot of old school games were unable to do this for various reasons, but modern games are able to direct a story while still giving the player control. In Half-Life, you don't all of a sudden lose control when Alyx yells "WATCH OUT!", and time doesn't suddenly come to a halt (until you press enter to get rid of textbox) when your characters banter in Mass Effect. Unless you are creating a highly scripted scene where things have to happen in a timely fashion, you can still give control to the player. It shouldn't be "give control, no story happens" or "story happens, no control given". There are ways to create a seamless experience.
Obviously, this is mostly out of the scope of rpgmaker games for technical reasons. And of course you want to create things interesting and entertaining, but also create an in depth story as well. Lots of games have journal systems, or something where you can access the menu and go into a log that is like a dictionary for your game, which holds character bios and world information. It's good for getting to the meat in cutscenes, and gives you the option of "hey, this is here if you want to know a lot more about this game world." The new Tactics Ogre for PSP had a really really good system on it.
edit: and animations. have lots of animations. animations for everything.
ubermax
0
This is all very good advice. I'm trying to keep things faster paced while providing the depth of story that makes an RPG an RPG. Old school RPGs managed to do this with only a handful of text boxes, so I should too.
ubermax
This is all very good advice. I'm trying to keep things faster paced while providing the depth of story that makes an RPG an RPG. Old school RPGs managed to do this with only a handful of text boxes, so I should too.
Debatable. I don't think that many oldschool RPGs told a very convincing story, but I am of a... less popular mindset.
Hell I like old school RPGs and their stories much better than most of the crap they shove down our throats, nowadays.
A lot of the old ones were only able to work on the story (more than other parts of the game(s)) and not much else as they didn't have the technology that we have today. Now all they focus on, would be how it looks, the system and not worry too much about the story like they used to.
Only a person who wasn't really into those games back in the day would say they didn't do much with the stories, that or they are too young. Like the old Final Fantasy games (well FF3, to the most part), Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire. Those types had great stories.
A lot of the old ones were only able to work on the story (more than other parts of the game(s)) and not much else as they didn't have the technology that we have today. Now all they focus on, would be how it looks, the system and not worry too much about the story like they used to.
Only a person who wasn't really into those games back in the day would say they didn't do much with the stories, that or they are too young. Like the old Final Fantasy games (well FF3, to the most part), Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire. Those types had great stories.
author=CrazeubermaxDebatable. I don't think that many oldschool RPGs told a very convincing story, but I am of a... less popular mindset.
This is all very good advice. I'm trying to keep things faster paced while providing the depth of story that makes an RPG an RPG. Old school RPGs managed to do this with only a handful of text boxes, so I should too.
more convincing than magical swords and throwing fireballs?
Thiamor
Only a person who wasn't really into those games back in the day would say they didn't do much with the stories
Exactly. Nostaglia is a terrible, terrible thing and, in my opinion, makes a lot of RM* games just as bad.
I didn't get into gaming until the middle of the PS2's lifespan.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Feldschlacht IV
It's not really so much about length, its girth that drives 'em wild. The same is true for cutscenes.
xD Hilarious!
author=CrazeThiamorExactly. Nostaglia is a terrible, terrible thing and, in my opinion, makes a lot of RM* games just as bad.
Only a person who wasn't really into those games back in the day would say they didn't do much with the stories
I didn't get into gaming until the middle of the PS2's lifespan.
Nostalgia is for the Nostalgic. Just because you don't "get it" doesn't mean it's terrible. It's geared toward a certain audience, and that audience LOVES it. Nostalgia is a vague term though, just because something is nostalgic doesn't mean it carries over all the negative aspects of older games. Nostalgia can be done well or very very bad.
