SECRET/ SUPER BOSS LENGTH

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Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
I started to wonder something. How long should a secret/super boss battle go on for?
I was thinking about doing one in a whole different fashion on a fan game I was/am working on where (it is a Final Fantasy one) the weapons are specially designed to fuse together, to make an optional, super boss.

Having 6 parts (weapons) to fight. Head, Torso, Left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg. They don't look like body parts until they fuse into each other. Then it becomes a use weapon, which goes searching for armor and a weapon. Once it becomes the super boss (super weapon) it would become the Omega Weapon with the armor, and then the Super Omega with the weapon. This would make for a very long, yet spaced out battle.

You can destroy each weapon so it cannot become the super boss, for little less exp each, or go through and allow it to combined and get greater exp as a whole.
The idea was to allow you to get it to Super Omega, which makes it kind of like fighting Sin from X, where you kill it, and the chest cracks open, and allows you to go inside. It being like a magical world inside of him where you can obtain your ultimate weapons II.

This would make it long, but with extra gameplay. Would something like this be too long? Do you like long special fights where you get it over with, or ones that allow breaks inbetween?
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
20691
Ever play Chrono Trigger? There's a certain place at that leads directly to the end-boss. Alternatively, the end-boss can be reached via a certain dungeon. Either way, the end boss, if faced in these ways, takes on attributes of several previous boss fights. I don't even know how many times it takes on such attributes, but it'd be a long, overdrawn battle, if the player was forced to do all of them at once.

However, the game allows a brief reprieve between each new form taken. During this time, the player may choose to heal up, switch off party members, whatever. If the player wants to just face the next form, the game allows that too. Though I'm mostly sure the player cannot retreat, save, and come back later where he or she left off (somebody correct me on this).

While this has nothing to do with what you're attempting, at least to what I understand of it, I think this example should be considered.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
EDIT:

If you can't say something nice...
Done perfectly? Two minutes five seconds.

One problem with super bosses in RPGs is they won't ever fucking die. At some point the player has either figured out how to kill the boss or simply overpower them and it is no longer fun fighting them. Except this is two minutes into the fight and they still have twenty left. The player dies from sheer exhaustion: Taking a risky action to kill the boss quicker, forgetting a step in the strategy, or not paying attention. Most bosses, optional super bosses included, should be fast paced and intense and shouldn't end long after the cows come home to the point they left again.
I don't think super bosses remain fun any longer than regular bosses. Generally, I'd advice you to make super bosses harder than regular bosses, but not necessarily longer. You can assume that a player going after super bosses is better prepared and adjust the HP of the super boss thereafter, but I don't want to spend half an hour just chipping away HP.

Typically, a boss battle can entertain longer if it changes it's strategies, usually meaning it changes form. Then there's also a limit to how many times the boss can change forms until the player gets tired of it. The greater the player's excitement over finally fighting the boss, the more forms the boss can have. For regular bosses, this limit depends largely on how story heavy said boss is. Super bosses however, rarely have much story behind them, so you have to think of another way to get the player excited even before the fight if you want to make it a multi staged fight.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
Well I had an idea, of having it changing the story a bit if you defeat the super boss.

Also with the breaks in between, it gives them chances to level up, heal, whatever, and with the option to just kill it off piece by piece without it fusing, would add some more strategy to the game, or so I feel. The basics of the idea I had, also would allow for the player to obtain new weapons, an upgrade, so to speak, of their previous Ultimate Weapons and armors. Ultimate II and would allow you to obtain a Final Summoning type of Summon.
It really really depends. How long does it take for your characters to exhaust their health, MP or even inventory? How much can the boss heal itself if at all?
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
That I'm still working on. I'm trying to make it be able to heal faster than it can attack. So it gives players the chance to heal as well. Also it is basically impossible for any character to lose all of their MP. Anytime they do any action, it gives back like 3 MP per turn. So if you use it up, you automatically get 3 back. I want to make it give back more per level earned. Like maybe when level 100 you can get 100 mp per turn. But that would take awhile to do.

For HP I planned on making a plan that would allow certain characters to earn HP back per turn, in return they earn no mp per turn.

I always wanted to add a thing that shows who is going to attack, like Exit Fate does, but also add a special type of one, that also will show what attack they will do. Sometimes.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
Usually secret bosses are meant to be a challenge or test of skills outside the game's difficulty level. Length is really irrelevant. Try something called thinking "critically" and the answer will come to you
slash
APATHY IS FOR COWARDS
4011
If you want a long battle, you should probably make it either multiple phases or several shorter battles. Once a player figures out the strategy, the battle should be won fairly simply, so each phase's strategy should be complex enough to make the player work to figure it out, and then that phase should be won *fairly* easily.

That being said, a battle that complex will wear out your player, so use them wisely and not too often.
I happen to like long boss fights. It feels intense for me because I wonder if I will run out of supplies before I win.
I think the boss SHOULd take some time to defeat, otherwise you could just luck out with some crits and be done with it.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
author=LightningLord2
I think the boss SHOULd take some time to defeat, otherwise you could just luck out with some crits and be done with it.

Simple solution: Design a modern RPG system that largely eliminates the antiquated random chance structure and flow of battle.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
As I said in the other topic, bosses, and enemies in general, should last until the player understands how they work. And then they should end, and not appear again.

This is a really general statement and perhaps not very helpful, but it's extremely difficult to create a generic rule that works for every possible challenge you can come up with. Watching someone else play your game can help with this a lot.
author=Magi
author=LightningLord2
I think the boss SHOULd take some time to defeat, otherwise you could just luck out with some crits and be done with it.
Simple solution: Design a modern RPG system that largely eliminates the antiquated random chance structure and flow of battle.

I am actually in love with the somewhat random 'anything can happen' unpredictability of the very nature of battle itself, and it makes for absolutely gripping battles in games like Romancing Saga: Minstrel Song where no matter how strong you are, there are always factors outside of your control and you're at best really, really prepared, and never quite strong enough to absolutely mop the floor with the toughest enemies the game has to offer, because there are so many factors to how a battle can go and nothing is never formulaic.

What if a passive skill activates during a clutch moment? What if your character's shield's parry kicks in and you block that crushing attack (this can happen also for an enemy against your own attack)? What if the gods (literally, this can literally happen) favor falls upon you and you get randomly blessed in the middle of battle and your HP is fully restored and your enemies get smited (different effects depending on which god has grown to like you throughout the game)? None of this will make you certainly lose where you should have certainly won (or vice versa), but that 'what if', or 'this time' factor, wow, it's amazing.

If any of you have time, hop on Gamefaqs and check out the Battle Mechanics for RS:MS, it's insane. Once you come to understand it and use it to your advantage in battle (and outside of battle) its absolutely gorgeous.

But that's just me.
author=Feldschlacht IV
author=Magi
author=LightningLord2
I think the boss SHOULd take some time to defeat, otherwise you could just luck out with some crits and be done with it.
Simple solution: Design a modern RPG system that largely eliminates the antiquated random chance structure and flow of battle.
I am actually in love with the somewhat random 'anything can happen' unpredictability of the very nature of battle itself, and it makes for absolutely gripping battles in games like Romancing Saga: Minstrel Song where no matter how strong you are, there are always factors outside of your control and you're at best really, really prepared, and never quite strong enough to absolutely mop the floor with the toughest enemies the game has to offer, because there are so many factors to how a battle can go and nothing is never formulaic.

What if a passive skill activates during a clutch moment? What if your character's shield's parry kicks in and you block that crushing attack (this can happen also for an enemy against your own attack)? What if the gods (literally, this can literally happen) favor falls upon you and you get randomly blessed in the middle of battle and your HP is fully restored and your enemies get smited (different effects depending on which god has grown to like you throughout the game)? None of this will make you certainly lose where you should have certainly won (or vice versa), but that 'what if', or 'this time' factor, wow, it's amazing.

If any of you have time, hop on Gamefaqs and check out the Battle Mechanics for RS:MS, it's insane. Once you come to understand it and use it to your advantage in battle (and outside of battle) its absolutely gorgeous.

But that's just me.


I am a fan of RS series as well, but the unpredictability of the game actually can be really aggravating.

OF course, by the time you learn the battle mechanics faq, the unpredictabilities should be manageable (or you know, predictable and exploited as strategy - but there is always the SKILL LEARNING SYSTEM, let's just not get into it) Which is good, but then you'd realize that only (mostly) fans of the series would attempt this far. The rest might quit halfway.

In fact the reason I can beat the game 2 times so far would be because of the faqs explaining the mechanics in depth. I'll be honest, sometimes scouring the faqs to understand how to play the game feels like a chore (you'd be penalized for fighting battle?!).

For me, I tend to put the favor to the players.
benos
My mind is full of fuck.
623
Long as the super boss hasn't got 1 million HP.

99,99/100,000 HP should be the maximum. Because basically just a borefest, and making it sure it's a interesting and challenging boss battle.
author=benos
Long as the super boss hasn't got 1 million HP.

99,99/100,000 HP should be the maximum. Because basically just a borefest, and making it sure it's a interesting and challenging boss battle.
This really depends on how much damage the characters do...
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
6309
I'm not a fan of these usually. They should be cool/fun to fight, but usually it's a spamfest of #^*% you kid spells. So you spend the fight cramming cure juice down your gullet while summoning your own #%^* you boss spells. It's tedium at best; like all the grinding you need to do just to beat this 'reward'.
benos
My mind is full of fuck.
623
author=Pokemaniac
author=benos
Long as the super boss hasn't got 1 million HP.

99,99/100,000 HP should be the maximum. Because basically just a borefest, and making it sure it's a interesting and challenging boss battle.
This really depends on how much damage the characters do...

Well every character could take 99 or 100 HP every round, and see how it goes from there. if it were possible for rpg maker/xp/vx to allow a continue on a boss battle that still has the same amount hp of monster you fought earlier, you can escape every time. Depending on the difficulty if it regen it's health.

But sounds like final fantasy 12.
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