HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR TOUCH ENCOUNTERS?

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halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
All right, ever since seeing Strangeluv's utter hatred of random encounters, I was inspired to look into the touchy kind instead. I basically had two beefs with this variety of encounter before:

1. the events can clog up the map, block passages, etc.

2. it's possible to clear the map, leaving no monsters left to fight at all

But instead of being pigeonholing myself, I designed ways around these two gripes. First, I made it so that enemy groups respawn. When you defeat them, the event turns transparent for a short while (thirty seconds) and reanimates later. This way, there is never enemy extinction. But that's not all; the events can also be passed through while transparent, so if an errant monster wandered into a one-tile passageway, its removal would not be difficult. However, it would still require that that encounter be fought, and I know some people just HATE being forced to fight SO MUCH. So I took it a step further. I set it such that, if the monster party is run from instead of defeated, the event still turns transparent. It stays down for a fraction of the time (three seconds), but it's just long enough for the hero to move away.

Finally, there's the issue of grinding. If the player breezed past all these touch encounters because they're lazy or something and hit a wall at the boss, the encounter respawn time would make grinding a chore, right? WELL, that's why I made it such that if the player presses enter while standing on top of a transparent encounter, they'll be given the option to fight it again. Defeating it/running from it will reset its respawn timer, too.

So, what do you think of this method of handling touch encounters? Do you have any suggestions on ways to improve it? Are there other kinds you prefer? I have yet to actually implement the system, so any oversights I can correct now would be most helpful.
I don't really get it. What's the problem with erase event?

You can't respect a player who doesn't like ANY forced battles... cause that's a player who doesn't like battles, thus he shouldn't be playing your game.

But if you want to force battles, you might as well go with random encounters.
I think the best way would be to use touch encounters but make the events move in some interesting fashion... like in Leo and Leah, where they moved randomly, but followed you if you ran. It was still possible to avoid encounters, but there's some degree of challenge in it.
Ocean
Resident foodmonster
11991
I actually love clearing the map. It stems from my playing Might and Magic 6 long ago. You'd get a red circle if enemies are very close, yellow if they are present, and green if it's safe. I liked getting the dungeon to green. There were always plenty of places to fight monsters on so it's not like you were like "I killed everything, now what?", especially since they were optional. Plus enemies over time repopulated the worlds. I actually thought there were TOO MANY enemies but oh well!

I did have a few issues with this in Paradise Blue, since some bosses were fought before you really had a chance to go out and really grind, and that was my fault. I did try to include an area with endless fights so you didn't have to run out and wonder how to fix your builds or whatever. But I still like the approach.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
from calunio
I don't really get it. What's the problem with erase event?


from halibabica
2. it's possible to clear the map, leaving no monsters left to fight at all


I'm not terribly concerned about the players who never want to fight at all (why are they playing RPGs???), but I don't want to force battles down the player's throat, either. What I've put together here just makes the most sense to me for correcting the two problems I mentioned.
I don't like the idea of clearing the maps, some enemies I actually like fighting for whatever reason; for their items, good experience points, or simply because I dig the battle system and I dig that particular monster.
You do know that monsters respawn when you leave and return to the map with erase event, right?

Plus, using a 30s timeout is a lot, it would be the same as erase event unless you have a really big map.

Also, you can't have what Ocean said without erase event.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
from Ocean
I actually love clearing the map.


I was expecting this sentiment to come up sooner or later, and I was debating something like it for this new system of mine. Since the enemy parties rewspawn after thirty seconds, it's impossible to kill them all off...unless you killed every party on the map in the time before the first group revived. Their timers don't tick while you're in battle, so if the player moved quickly enough between all the groups, they might just destroy them all before any come back. I was thinking of making some reward for such a feat.

from calunio
You do know that monsters respawn when you leave and return to the map with erase event, right?

I do, but I'm also considering the players that are seeking out fights here. If they were trying to get a specific item an enemy drops or even just grinding in general, having to run all over the place killing everything, then have to leave the map to bring them all back is a chore. That's why I'm letting them re-fight transparent foes if they want. It gives them more control.
How about "Press SHIFT to respawn monsters"?
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
Could do that, too, but I think my current way is more convenient. The player seeking fights can stand under any encounter they wish and fight it as much as they wish without having to move anywhere at all.

I suppose I should also mention that the enemy groups are randomly decided on my touch encounters, so it's not always the exact same fight for each group.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I like Chrono Trigger.

Just in case you're a heathen, that means:

1) Some monsters are encountered when you touch them, but others are encountered when you pass over a certain tile. The end result is that about half the encounters are optional, but the average player will fight almost all of them.
2) If you run away from enemies, they disappear as though defeated.
3) If you leave a map and come back, usually the monsters are back. Certain monsters don't respawn, usually in areas where it is difficult or impossible to reach an inn (Guardia Castle Prison), or areas that you have to pass through many times (Guardia Forest).
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
I like the idea of pressing Shift to respawn encounters! I'm also of the "half wandering, half mandatory" mindset, as long as the player can still escape and as long as the mandatory encounters do not respawn.

In short:

1.) Some sort of easy way to respawn monsters
2.) Half of the encounters should be wanderers. The other half should be mandatory encounters that do not respawn.
3.) Take advantage of the encounter events to add special features, like ability points, extra item drops, etc!
4.) Allow the player to escape from most, if not all, encounters. Just make sure they're challenging enough!
author=halibabica
I set it such that, if the monster party is run from instead of defeated, the event still turns transparent. It stays down for a fraction of the time (three seconds), but it's just long enough for the hero to move away.


I recall a Super NES RPG that had implemented something like this part: Robotrek. You could run away from one of its touch encounters, and that unit would strobe flash and act as an impassable obstacle for several seconds, rather than what you proposed. I think your version is a nice improvement, considering there were...uh, some situations in Robotrek where I really would've rather truly escaped from certain battles (i.e. situations where I am three hits away from being dead robotic scrap).
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
author=ElectricalKat
author=halibabica
I set it such that, if the monster party is run from instead of defeated, the event still turns transparent. It stays down for a fraction of the time (three seconds), but it's just long enough for the hero to move away.
I recall a Super NES RPG that had implemented something like this part: Robotrek. You could run away from one of its touch encounters, and that unit would strobe flash and act as an impassable obstacle for several seconds, rather than what you proposed. I think your version is a nice improvement, considering there were...uh, some situations in Robotrek where I really would've rather truly escaped from certain battles (i.e. situations where I am three hits away from being dead robotic scrap).

I like the idea. To piggyback on that, I believe escape should always be a viable option (unless it's a boss/fixed fight). Nothing frustrates me more than dying while trying to escape! We live in a time of impatience, after all!
author=Deckiller
I like the idea. To piggyback on that, I believe escape should always be a viable option (unless it's a boss/fixed fight). Nothing frustrates me more than dying while trying to escape! We live in a time of impatience, after all!

yes, i completely agree with this idea. and to add to this, we should have instant death kittens pop up and counterattack the enemies if they ever dared to hit the escaping heroes. beware the power of kitties! it's dangerous to go alone!

author=halibabica
Could do that, too, but I think my current way is more convenient. The player seeking fights can stand under any encounter they wish and fight it as much as they wish without having to move anywhere at all.

I will agree with Deckiller on one objection -- your "infinite" respawn switch -- in that it could be greatly abused if you implemented it poorly. I liked your idea of giving the player a special bonus, if (s)he killed all of the monsters in their current room on time, better. Of course, this time limit can definitely vary between each room!

And your players might consider it an achievement to master as well.
Starscream
Conquest is made from the ashes of one's enemies.
6110
Touch encounters were one of the few things a game like Blue Dragon did right. I liked how you could mix and match your encounters by getting multiple enemies close to you and also use a variety of field skills to counteract them. It was also cool to see those monsters turn on each other if you got them grouped together and they were natural enemies.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
from ElectricalKat
one objection -- your "infinite" respawn switch -- in that it could be greatly abused if you implemented it poorly

It's being implemented exactly the way I described. I don't really consider it a feature that can be abused, though. It's more a convenience for the player so they don't have to run all over the place to grind a little. It takes the tediousness out of tracking down enemies to fight, and even with other setups, the player is free to fight as much as they want (it's just less convenient).

from rcholbert
Touch encounters were one of the few things a game like Blue Dragon did right. I liked how you could mix and match your encounters by getting multiple enemies close to you and also use a variety of field skills to counteract them. It was also cool to see those monsters turn on each other if you got them grouped together and they were natural enemies.

That is a really cool way of handling it! It's a lot more complex than what I'm aiming for, though, and I can only imagine trying to pull it off in RM. o.o
In Soviet RM2k3 Game, monsters clear you!

This topic bring the Might & Magic 3 method to memory, where World Map (outdoor) enemies have a dwelling in the area and they'll repopulate if you leave it alone. If you smash it, you get a big Exp/Item payout. For any of you making a game that's a little more free-roaming than most linear-jRPG's out there, that could work. Put a Goblin Chief's throne in the Cave of Goblins or something.
I like my touch encounters random and invisible :D

...but I did enjoy DQIX's encounter system. Enemies would randomly spawn on the map, and if you got close sometimes they would chase you down. If you spent too long avoiding monsters though, they would get REALLY aggressive and chase you down to force an encounter. (unless you were drastically higher leveled than they were, and the monsters would run away!)
I don't care so much weather or not they respawn. However, I prefer if they make a reasonable effort of chasing players down. Most touch encounters I've seen in RM games are either very easy or very hard to avoid. There's rarely anything in-between.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
I love clearing maps too, it also gives you the opportunity to see what the map looks like, which is often impossible, and frustrating.
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