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WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT
Posts
Starscream
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CloseBy now, I think that most people have become aware of some of the site happenings last night. For those of you that are not aware, the following is what occurred:
• At approximately 9:00pm CST the featured game on rpgmaker.net was changed to “Sonic and the Chaos Dragons” by a then unknown staff member. It was later discovered that this change was made by Magi, and was meant to serve as his “resignation letter”. He went on to publicly bash rpgmaker.net and its users/games in the public IRC channel. Logs show that the game was featured to mock rpgmaker.net and the quality of the games available/featured on the site.
• When Magi was discovered to be the culprit (confirmed with IP logs before he admitted it in #rpgmaker.net), I immediately removed his moderation/submission queue powers. When it became apparent that Magi’s actions were intended to be a signing-off slap to rpgmaker.net and its users, he was banned. Magi has yet to contact me to appeal the ban.
• At this point, Magi becomes aware of his ban and discusses it with several of his peers . At this point, Strangeluv begins trying to get others to post in favor of Magi. Several warnings were issued, but Strangeluv continued to ask users to post to see how we would react.
• Strangeluv is banned after ignoring final warnings, as was user Abdel McCrack. Six posts total regarding Magi’s ban were deleted after they spill into the “What are you thinking about now?” topic. This decision was made to prevent the thread from being locked, as it had been active for three years. It was a mistake on my part to do so, which I discuss here: Recommendation: Stop Deleting Posts
• Users YDS and Felipe_9595 were the other users who had their posts deleted in that topic. Neither was banned because they have heretofore not caused any trouble at rpgmaker.net. Strangeluv has the honor of holding the longest ban at rpgmaker.net (2007-2010) for cheating and has been warned on several occasions prior. Yes, he made a really cool game (as did Magi) but that does not allow either of them to do whatever they want. No other actions were taken despite numerous users speaking up about the event (in IRC, on the forums, via annoying flashing avatars, etc.).
• Users Strangeluv and Abdel McCrack have both ban evaded at least one to post more posts. They have been using a proxy/TOR to access the site and probably will continue to try in the future. Posts made when ban evading were deleted, but will not be in the future. They will simply be banned again until one of us tires of this game.
• Several users who were friends with Magi, Strangeluv, etc. decided to move on from rpgmaker.net at this point, including one user who had never posted before(!).
That pretty much sums up the activities that occurred last night. However, I know many users consider those involved in this debacle to be friends or believe that the actions I took were too harsh. That is the real reason I am creating this topic: to discuss why I felt the action needed to be taken.
On March 4th, 2011 I resumed control of rpgmaker.net to prevent my good friend WIP from killing the site off completely. There was no single reason why WIP wanted to pull the plug, but the types of drama that was exemplified last night played a major part in this decision. We have several long-term users here who feel as their opinions and creations are more important than others, which is okay – it happens. The problems occur when those users decide not to contribute or be constructive when they interact with others. This is an issue I have taken very seriously since I returned to rpgmaker.net, and it has been the #1 complaint from the new users who we are supposed to be guiding and making feel welcome.
There are many different users who have participated in this nonsense from all different kinds of backgrounds. These actions have previously culminated in warnings to prolific developers like Craze and users who have not contributed anything but derision like Jericho. Magi has not be innocent in this regards, nor have some of his associates. I kept him on as staff when I resumed control of rpgmaker.net due to his long tenure as a staff member. However, he almost immediately quit performing his normal duties of moderating the submission queue – most of this has been handled by Karsuman with kentona and ankylo’s support since March. He has moderated the queue on the rare occasion, but it was most often to deny someone’s submission (which he should do if justified) with condescending remarks. He would read topics in the staff forum, but had only responded in one topic since March. He had been called out several times for his inactivity, but he never responded. He should have already been terminated by any measure but we kept him on to keep the peace.
<@Magi> i often asked
<@Magi> why i am still staffed at rmn
<@Magi> despite doing nothing anymore
<@Magi> and then i realized
<@Magi> it is because 75% of the staff couldn't can me in good faith
<@Magi> because they also do nothing
Magi has also made several demeaning remarks regarding the current site, such as that I only kept it open because it was an important business venture to me ($30/month ad revenue). Look through his post history, and you will see pages of snarky (yet sometimes subtle) jabs at other users and their creations. This kind of attitude has continue to pervade Magi and some others since it was announced that rpgmaker.net would remain open.
<Magi> it isn't so much the site that we criticize
<Magi> as it is the members
<Magi> well, select members
<Magi> such as f-g and lockez
<Ciel> the overarching design and attitude trends in the userbase
<Kef> i only trash rmn because it's outright pathetic to see a 25 year old make a game like tales of zoolander or whatever
<Ciel> we stopped discussing flaws with the actual site about the time it became clear you weren't interested in fixing them
<Ciel> obviously our intention was to be mean and terrible and not to help
<Kef> the constructive criticism stopped when it was clear no one wanted to hear advice
So we’ve continued to play this game with them for months, sending the odd warning whenever they got really out of hand. But that hasn’t stopped them at all. Last night was simply the final straw. Some of their supporters are being disingenuous when protesting Magi’s ban and claiming a lack of transparency. In fact, Strangeluv purposefully asked several members to continue posting about Magi even when we had made it clear that it needed to stop.
<Strangeluv> Please stand up
<Strangeluv> for your fallen shmups
<Strangeluv> Me and Magi
<YDS> idk i am posting
<YDS> all over the place.
<Strangeluv> He cant ban us all... (yes he can)
<Magi> kef can you do something for me...
<Kef> sup
<Magi> i need you
<@Magi> to post something
<Strangeluv> "hey nice admining. What are you afraid of? If you can't see that you're overreacting and making some shitty illogical decisions, then fuck you, ban me.
<Abdel McCrack> he banned by account, I can still view the site on another browser
<Magi> but it will take a couple minutes
<@Magi> for me to make it
<Kef> okay i will
<Magi> you will probably be banned but
<Ciel> lol
<Strangeluv> Something like that
<Magi> it will be worth it
<Kef> only reason i ever visit rmn is to post things that might get me banned anyway
<mellytan> lets push it to the limits yds
<Strangeluv> lol
<YDS> lol
<Kef> please
<Emirpoen> Is it even possible to troll Holbert?
<Strangeluv> YDS please
<Ciel> holbert is part of the infectionfiles accord
<@Magi> no
<Strangeluv> get banned
<Kef> everyone get banne dtonight
<Magi> holb will press ban button
<mellytan> yes
<Magi> and you will be gone
<YDS> ban party!
<Strangeluv> Please speak out Ocean..
<Strangeluv> If YDS or Ocean gets banned
<Strangeluv> Why is mellytan not posting
<Strangeluv> i am disappointed
This continues on and on. It is clear that they understood what actions they were taking and the consequences for continuing to do so. This nonsense has continued through today. The difference is now they are taking a very disingenuous position that they were banned for no good reason and that I am being a despot for taking action against them. The reality is that the members who were banned have no real interest in rpgmaker.net and have been actively working against the site for quite some time. It is unfortunate that have drug others into their endeavors and I am saddened that some pretty cool people have left because of it. I want rpgmaker.net to be a healthy place for discussion and that just can’t happen if we allow people to undermine the site administration or its continually mock our users. Those who can be civil and disagree without being disagreeable are always welcome here as are their games.
• At approximately 9:00pm CST the featured game on rpgmaker.net was changed to “Sonic and the Chaos Dragons” by a then unknown staff member. It was later discovered that this change was made by Magi, and was meant to serve as his “resignation letter”. He went on to publicly bash rpgmaker.net and its users/games in the public IRC channel. Logs show that the game was featured to mock rpgmaker.net and the quality of the games available/featured on the site.
• When Magi was discovered to be the culprit (confirmed with IP logs before he admitted it in #rpgmaker.net), I immediately removed his moderation/submission queue powers. When it became apparent that Magi’s actions were intended to be a signing-off slap to rpgmaker.net and its users, he was banned. Magi has yet to contact me to appeal the ban.
• At this point, Magi becomes aware of his ban and discusses it with several of his peers . At this point, Strangeluv begins trying to get others to post in favor of Magi. Several warnings were issued, but Strangeluv continued to ask users to post to see how we would react.
• Strangeluv is banned after ignoring final warnings, as was user Abdel McCrack. Six posts total regarding Magi’s ban were deleted after they spill into the “What are you thinking about now?” topic. This decision was made to prevent the thread from being locked, as it had been active for three years. It was a mistake on my part to do so, which I discuss here: Recommendation: Stop Deleting Posts
• Users YDS and Felipe_9595 were the other users who had their posts deleted in that topic. Neither was banned because they have heretofore not caused any trouble at rpgmaker.net. Strangeluv has the honor of holding the longest ban at rpgmaker.net (2007-2010) for cheating and has been warned on several occasions prior. Yes, he made a really cool game (as did Magi) but that does not allow either of them to do whatever they want. No other actions were taken despite numerous users speaking up about the event (in IRC, on the forums, via annoying flashing avatars, etc.).
• Users Strangeluv and Abdel McCrack have both ban evaded at least one to post more posts. They have been using a proxy/TOR to access the site and probably will continue to try in the future. Posts made when ban evading were deleted, but will not be in the future. They will simply be banned again until one of us tires of this game.
• Several users who were friends with Magi, Strangeluv, etc. decided to move on from rpgmaker.net at this point, including one user who had never posted before(!).
That pretty much sums up the activities that occurred last night. However, I know many users consider those involved in this debacle to be friends or believe that the actions I took were too harsh. That is the real reason I am creating this topic: to discuss why I felt the action needed to be taken.
On March 4th, 2011 I resumed control of rpgmaker.net to prevent my good friend WIP from killing the site off completely. There was no single reason why WIP wanted to pull the plug, but the types of drama that was exemplified last night played a major part in this decision. We have several long-term users here who feel as their opinions and creations are more important than others, which is okay – it happens. The problems occur when those users decide not to contribute or be constructive when they interact with others. This is an issue I have taken very seriously since I returned to rpgmaker.net, and it has been the #1 complaint from the new users who we are supposed to be guiding and making feel welcome.
There are many different users who have participated in this nonsense from all different kinds of backgrounds. These actions have previously culminated in warnings to prolific developers like Craze and users who have not contributed anything but derision like Jericho. Magi has not be innocent in this regards, nor have some of his associates. I kept him on as staff when I resumed control of rpgmaker.net due to his long tenure as a staff member. However, he almost immediately quit performing his normal duties of moderating the submission queue – most of this has been handled by Karsuman with kentona and ankylo’s support since March. He has moderated the queue on the rare occasion, but it was most often to deny someone’s submission (which he should do if justified) with condescending remarks. He would read topics in the staff forum, but had only responded in one topic since March. He had been called out several times for his inactivity, but he never responded. He should have already been terminated by any measure but we kept him on to keep the peace.
<@Magi> i often asked
<@Magi> why i am still staffed at rmn
<@Magi> despite doing nothing anymore
<@Magi> and then i realized
<@Magi> it is because 75% of the staff couldn't can me in good faith
<@Magi> because they also do nothing
Magi has also made several demeaning remarks regarding the current site, such as that I only kept it open because it was an important business venture to me ($30/month ad revenue). Look through his post history, and you will see pages of snarky (yet sometimes subtle) jabs at other users and their creations. This kind of attitude has continue to pervade Magi and some others since it was announced that rpgmaker.net would remain open.
<Magi> it isn't so much the site that we criticize
<Magi> as it is the members
<Magi> well, select members
<Magi> such as f-g and lockez
<Ciel> the overarching design and attitude trends in the userbase
<Kef> i only trash rmn because it's outright pathetic to see a 25 year old make a game like tales of zoolander or whatever
<Ciel> we stopped discussing flaws with the actual site about the time it became clear you weren't interested in fixing them
<Ciel> obviously our intention was to be mean and terrible and not to help
<Kef> the constructive criticism stopped when it was clear no one wanted to hear advice
So we’ve continued to play this game with them for months, sending the odd warning whenever they got really out of hand. But that hasn’t stopped them at all. Last night was simply the final straw. Some of their supporters are being disingenuous when protesting Magi’s ban and claiming a lack of transparency. In fact, Strangeluv purposefully asked several members to continue posting about Magi even when we had made it clear that it needed to stop.
<Strangeluv> Please stand up
<Strangeluv> for your fallen shmups
<Strangeluv> Me and Magi
<YDS> idk i am posting
<YDS> all over the place.
<Strangeluv> He cant ban us all... (yes he can)
<Magi> kef can you do something for me...
<Kef> sup
<Magi> i need you
<@Magi> to post something
<Strangeluv> "hey nice admining. What are you afraid of? If you can't see that you're overreacting and making some shitty illogical decisions, then fuck you, ban me.
<Abdel McCrack> he banned by account, I can still view the site on another browser
<Magi> but it will take a couple minutes
<@Magi> for me to make it
<Kef> okay i will
<Magi> you will probably be banned but
<Ciel> lol
<Strangeluv> Something like that
<Magi> it will be worth it
<Kef> only reason i ever visit rmn is to post things that might get me banned anyway
<mellytan> lets push it to the limits yds
<Strangeluv> lol
<YDS> lol
<Kef> please
<Emirpoen> Is it even possible to troll Holbert?
<Strangeluv> YDS please
<Ciel> holbert is part of the infectionfiles accord
<@Magi> no
<Strangeluv> get banned
<Kef> everyone get banne dtonight
<Magi> holb will press ban button
<mellytan> yes
<Magi> and you will be gone
<YDS> ban party!
<Strangeluv> Please speak out Ocean..
<Strangeluv> If YDS or Ocean gets banned
<Strangeluv> Why is mellytan not posting
<Strangeluv> i am disappointed
This continues on and on. It is clear that they understood what actions they were taking and the consequences for continuing to do so. This nonsense has continued through today. The difference is now they are taking a very disingenuous position that they were banned for no good reason and that I am being a despot for taking action against them. The reality is that the members who were banned have no real interest in rpgmaker.net and have been actively working against the site for quite some time. It is unfortunate that have drug others into their endeavors and I am saddened that some pretty cool people have left because of it. I want rpgmaker.net to be a healthy place for discussion and that just can’t happen if we allow people to undermine the site administration or its continually mock our users. Those who can be civil and disagree without being disagreeable are always welcome here as are their games.
Ghost
787
You're right Holbert you didn't do anything wrong. I like how you're some how getting these quotes from #shmup when you're not idling there. Please send more of your RMN AGENTS. You are so RMN and I'm tired of your RMN B.S. Now I shall group you with everything bad with RMN because that's the cool thing to do now a days.
Also, you can easily take things out of context. Either post all the discussions that occured or none. At no point do we try to hide anything :).
<Magi> it isn't so much the site that we criticize
<Magi> as it is the members
<Magi> well, select members
<Magi> such as f-g and lockez
This is uncalled for, it has nothing to do with RMN and you're posting private conversation on the public forums. So what if Magi said that it doesn't concern anyone at rmn. I don't like a lot of people but I don't mention it and I am 100% positive you have said things in private about shmup members but not in the main chat.
Stop this nonsense, you're now taking shots at us in clear retaliation. The thing that you are so wrong about is you're taking many of the things said there literally.
Do you know what I say sometimes? Things that you would never allow me to post here. But guess what? It's not on the forums and it in no ways should ever be used as some evidence of some large conspiracy to massively attack RMN.
The fact that you call us huge trolls then go out of your way to blatantly say that we're on some kind of crusade is ridiculous. I guarantee you that you do NOT know anything we contribute to rmn in private, and honestly it does not concern you because I can't even think of one thing you've done positively for RMN besides throw money at it.
Grow up, we tried contacting you many times but you put up a deaf ear and then come on the forums with garbage evidence (yes garbage it's completely taken out of context). It's not a popularity contest you're welcome to post whatever you may but there's one clear difference between how you handle things and how we have.
We hid nothing, you deleted posts and edit posts then on top of that sent people to go spy on us in the #shmup channel. When I talked to you directly you didn't bat an eye.
Also, you can easily take things out of context. Either post all the discussions that occured or none. At no point do we try to hide anything :).
<Magi> it isn't so much the site that we criticize
<Magi> as it is the members
<Magi> well, select members
<Magi> such as f-g and lockez
This is uncalled for, it has nothing to do with RMN and you're posting private conversation on the public forums. So what if Magi said that it doesn't concern anyone at rmn. I don't like a lot of people but I don't mention it and I am 100% positive you have said things in private about shmup members but not in the main chat.
Stop this nonsense, you're now taking shots at us in clear retaliation. The thing that you are so wrong about is you're taking many of the things said there literally.
Do you know what I say sometimes? Things that you would never allow me to post here. But guess what? It's not on the forums and it in no ways should ever be used as some evidence of some large conspiracy to massively attack RMN.
The fact that you call us huge trolls then go out of your way to blatantly say that we're on some kind of crusade is ridiculous. I guarantee you that you do NOT know anything we contribute to rmn in private, and honestly it does not concern you because I can't even think of one thing you've done positively for RMN besides throw money at it.
Grow up, we tried contacting you many times but you put up a deaf ear and then come on the forums with garbage evidence (yes garbage it's completely taken out of context). It's not a popularity contest you're welcome to post whatever you may but there's one clear difference between how you handle things and how we have.
We hid nothing, you deleted posts and edit posts then on top of that sent people to go spy on us in the #shmup channel. When I talked to you directly you didn't bat an eye.
Anyone can claim the opposing party's position is disingenuous using out-of-context evidence to support their accusation. It is ultimately up to the individual to determine who is being genuine and who is not.
I can't even think of one thing you've done positively for RMN besides throw money at it.
Well, he banned Magi. That's a pretty big one.
Pladough
163
I must say that I like how this site has handled the drama. I missed most of the arguing and I haven't seen much residue lingering around aside from the people quitting as a means of protest (or starving for attention). Despite the "censorship" going on, I'm glad this site is being moderated.
author=Ocean
So who's the one feeding you info here?
author=geodude
yeah even by rpg maker people standards that is very childish and petulant
I like how I have months worth of logs and other incriminating evidence and all anyone is worried about is who logged it or how unfair it is. It's completely relevant when it establishes a motive for your actions or tells a very different story than what you are trying to portray here. The bottom line is if you don't want to be a constructive member of the community, you are free to leave.
*Ciel posts logs of chats with WIP* <--- just fine!
*Holbert posts logs of shmup chats* <--- OMG HE CHEATED!!!! NOT RELEVANT!!!!
*Holbert posts logs of shmup chats* <--- OMG HE CHEATED!!!! NOT RELEVANT!!!!
Ghost
787
The bottom line is you're inept and can not hold any debate and lock all topics that challenge anything you say.
No one likes to have their concerns drown. That is why you're always going to have these problems. If not with us, then other members down the road. People are not sheep.
And I don't recognize you as anyone important so I'll leave on my own accord.
No one likes to have their concerns drown. That is why you're always going to have these problems. If not with us, then other members down the road. People are not sheep.
And I don't recognize you as anyone important so I'll leave on my own accord.
That's strange, I am leaving this topic open to debate any and all points but no one wants to now that there are facts involved. All I have now is more name calling...
Good riddance.
Good riddance.
Felipe_9595 is not banned nor was he ever banned. If you mean Strangeluv, I believe WIP banned him for trying to rig the Misao results in 2007.
