RELIGION IN GAMES

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I was talking with a friend yesterday about video game stories, when all of a sudden, we started to discuss religion as a central theme of a story. I proposed that it can help to add depth to a story if it was done correctly, but he countered that religion was beginning to become overused in video games as a "cheap" element. Kind of like how Xenogears and/or Evangelion used massive Christian symbolism as an exotic form of "coool!", which I found hard to disagree with.

As my game's storyline is QUITE religious in its nature, this subject interests me greatly. What does everyone think of how religions are handled in video games, either today or before? In what way could writers who create religious stories (in general I guess -- not just video games) improve upon them? Aside from what I mentioned before about cheap symbolism, which is something that I didn't understand about both of those stories I mentioned above (and something I don't understand about their fanbases in general...but I digress, this is unrelated).
harmonic
It's like toothpicks against a tank
4142
I think it has enormous potential. Organized religion is one of the most dynamic and interesting aspects of human culture in my opinion. Speaks volumes about our behavior and tendencies, and the pageantry and traditions involved in a powerful religious entity makes for great storylines and world settings. Clergymen are basically just like politicians, but with a cult flavor added in. Just makes for delicious potential characters.

It is easy to mess up, though. Throwing symbols of christian mythos is an age-old tactic to give the illusion of depth and/or some sort of message. There are many examples of this in mainstream RPGs. Angelic Seraphim wings on both Kefka and Sephiroth are the first that come to mind. Symbols by themselves mean nothing.
Adon237
if i had an allowance, i would give it to rmn
1743
I like cultish religion, (since I am atheist, any mention of the word "Gods" or "Goddesses" makes we wonder if I should play it at all.) I think that if a cultish religion is trying to rule the world or whatever is fine, but 2 religions battling eachother is plain stupid in a game . Don't people have enough of that in real life?
author=Adon237
I like cultish religion, (since I am atheist, any mention of the word "Gods" or "Goddesses" makes we wonder if I should play it at all.)


This is just silly. You'd be doing yourself and other atheists a favor by actually not saying things like this and actually learning a bit about religion.

(I'm an atheist btw)
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3214
I think one of the best portrayals of religion in a game was in Dragon Age. They realistically portrayed the multi-faceted nature of an established religion. It seems popular in RPGs to have churches always turn out to be evil, conspiring organizations. In Dragon Age, however, we see that although the Chantry has its militant and intolerant side, it also helps people and that the majority of the people involved with it are genuinely good people who want to make a difference.
Like in real life, one should consider the different "flavors" a religion can have - to take real examples, there are beliefs such as Hinduism where there is a belief that many gods exist. There's also beliefs such as Christianity, who believe that only one god exists. Finally, there are beliefs such as Buddhism, where worshipping a deity is not part (or at least not a major part, I'm not that much into it) of the religion, but rather one's own journey in life.

Religion on it's own is a good way to explain and/or enrichen the culture and structure of society.
I'd like to see an innocent religion where in one region it's people are war-like and in another region its people are pure pacifists. (Like Islam today).
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
As long as you try to avoid obvious parallels with real-life religions...otherwise it's a bit overdone, and frankly, tacky.
author=Yellow Magic
As long as you try to avoid obvious parallels with real-life religions...otherwise it's a bit overdone, and frankly, tacky.


Isn't that the truth. Not only tacky/overdone, but maybe offensive? And you *probably* don't want to have a generic bad guy monster like "Initiate" in a cult or something, because THAT horse has been beaten to death.

And as for cults in general...my very first RPG maker game featured a cult, and I can't help but think of that game whenever I see a cult in a game. They are to bad guys as orcs are to overused generic legions of minions.
I love me some religion. Though the aspect I like the most is the conflict between ideals. I don't know how it works out with interactive games but for the ancient example. You have a corrup medieval religion where the higher priests do their scheming and backstabbing and whoring and whatnot. And then on a more personal level there's the gruntworker in a village. Dutifully performing rituals for people who die in the plague.

How these two stories intersect I don't really know but they probably could. It's similar to the honourable hedge knight vs the veteran king's knight that has forgotten about chivalry a long time ago.

Inter-religious conflicts can also be fun I think. Polytheism vs monotheism, different factions within a polytheistic faith. All that fun stuff. The whole thing also tends to change a lot if the gods actually exist!

In fact I think in a fantasy story that's sort of the first thing you have to decide if you deal with religions. Do the gods actually exist? And with exist I obviously mean if they meddle in things mortals do.


Lastly I guess I'll just say that generally I dislike the games that just throw around religious names and bible quotes and are generally very cryptic about what they're doing. That's not really a religious story. That's... Well it's something else. But it's not about religion.
author=harmonic
I think it has enormous potential. Organized religion is one of the most dynamic and interesting aspects of human culture in my opinion. Speaks volumes about our behavior and tendencies, and the pageantry and traditions involved in a powerful religious entity makes for great storylines and world settings. Clergymen are basically just like politicians, but with a cult flavor added in. Just makes for delicious potential characters.

^That.

Organized religions are institutions just like any other and are prone to the same vulnerabilities as a government, large business, or other established community (eg. artists and scientists). Good, well meaning people rise to some level in the institution and are happy to just coast. Scummy, narcissistic individuals will make alliances and backstab in order to climb the ladder and garner wealth/power. As a result, religions are filled with good people out to help one and all, but eventually too many bad apples get on top and so begins the Evil Conspirator trope.
author=ElectricalKat
Kind of like how Xenogears and/or Evangelion used massive Christian symbolism as an exotic form of "coool!", which I found hard to disagree with.


Play Xenogears again. It writes the concepts of Gnosticism and Kabbalistic themes into its plot and setting absolutely masterfully. Ignore the fact that a lot of the countries are named after Jewish months or whatever, once you get to the real meat of the story, the faithfulness and depth of how much it weaves the above religious concepts into everything is nothing short of fantastic.
I think there are two ways in which religion can be used in a game.

1 - Religion as a cultural aspect of some people. It helps fleshing out your world. People have certain habits and traditions because of their religion. They may call upon a god's name to cast certain spell, or visit a local church to heal. But this is really just cosmetic religion, it's just something that a game could use to make the world more characteristic and maybe realistic. Lots of games do that.

2 - Religion as a game's theme. Cooler, but way harder to make work. You'd have to deal with the psychological aspects of faith and belief, maybe worry about the world's cosmology, or something like that. I can't really think of games that have done this right. Maybe Dhux's Scar. And maybe Breath of Fire II. I remember BOFII having an interesting take on religion, but I don't remember what it was.

Anyways, I think in a world where gods speak to people and cast spells and you go to hell and fight demons, it's a take on religion that is not really what we call "religion" in our normal lives. Religion has to do with faith, a belief system. If you pray to a god because he gives you spells, it's just an explanation for magic and fantasy, it's not really religion (at least not in an interesting way).
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
Breath of Fire II probably more than any other game popularized the "god is evil" motif that RPGs clung to for the better part of a decade. It probably did it far, far better than any game that came after it did, however. It's one of the darkest games I've ever played. An impressive feat considering the translation bordered on incomprehensible.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
Religion is always a thing that could go both ways.

If done to the point it gets the story to progress WITHOUT shoving it down our throats, it sounds good.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
author=Solitayre
Breath of Fire II probably more than any other game popularized the "god is evil" motif that RPGs clung to for the better part of a decade. It probably did it far, far better than any game that came after it did, however. It's one of the darkest games I've ever played. An impressive feat considering the translation bordered on incomprehensible.


I kind of agree with this entire paragraph except in my personal idiom I'd replace Breath of Fire II with 'Final Fantasy Tactics' and make the same statement. (I am not trying to say you are incorrect.)
I've always been more interested in the political power of the churches and I can't think of a single game that has come remotely close to having a facsimile of the Catholic Church back in its heyday. It's kinda disappointing :(
author=GreatRedSpirit
I've always been more interested in the political power of the churches and I can't think of a single game that has come remotely close to having a facsimile of the Catholic Church back in its heyday. It's kinda disappointing :(


Final Fantasy Tactics.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
author=Feldschlacht IV
author=ElectricalKat
Kind of like how Xenogears and/or Evangelion used massive Christian symbolism as an exotic form of "coool!", which I found hard to disagree with.
Play Xenogears again. It writes the concepts of Gnosticism and Kabbalistic themes into its plot and setting absolutely masterfully. Ignore the fact that a lot of the countries are named after Jewish months or whatever, once you get to the real meat of the story, the faithfulness and depth of how much it weaves the above religious concepts into everything is nothing short of fantastic.


I still believe that Xenogears has probably the best story in RPG history.
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