THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT - PERCEPTION OF DESIGNER & PLAYER "RESPONSIBILITIES" IN AMATEUR & COMMERCIAL VIDEO GAMES

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LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I would not make it very long in the military.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
@ lockeZ : why are you so keen on "teaching"-"learning",there are things in life where becoming aware can really change it, and that's a bit beyond "teaching-learning", and often more essential than craft?(though, i must say that's the subject of this topic!)
Because he is the source of all knowledge and if someone disagrees with him, then they are no longer "learning" anything.

He's only doing everyone a favor.
LockeZ, if I came up to you and told you bluntly that you have no tact, and if you didn't heed my advice, would that make you a talentless schmuck who doesn't care about his craft as an advice-giver?
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
@LockeZ : "knowledge" doesn't go all that far....
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Clyve is hilarious.

But no. I don't really think I know more than most other people about most things. Like in your example, if I saw someone performing music on the street, I would have very little to say about it, because I know very little about music. But even so, one small thing that could be improved might occur to me. Even if it's just something simple like "your hat is too close to your dancing, I can't put money in it without interrupting you unless you move it away from you by another foot or two." That's not WHOA SAGEDOM, it's just something that didn't occur to him because he was concentrating on other things like his wicked moves. That's how most advice is - it's not things you didn't know, it's just things that you didn't think of.

@kentona: Well, to me, tact and advice-giving are polar opposites. Doing one directly prevents the other. So I don't think so, but if you disagree, I'm certainly willing to listen!
DE
*click to edit*
1313
author=chana
@LockeZ : "knowledge" doesn't go all that far....

But knowledge is half the battle!
tact is a great tool for advice giving! It complements it very well and increases the chance that advice is followed (which is an end-goal) ...but that is for another conversation.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
I liked this thread, but now it is doomed.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
@LockeZ : Were you, are you a teacher in some "other" life?
author=Solitayre
I liked this thread, but now it is doomed.


you say this in like every thread
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
author=DE
author=chana
@LockeZ : "knowledge" doesn't go all that far....
But knowledge is half the battle!
Yeah, somewhat, i see what you mean, but the other half is way way beyond that, and without it.......not much!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
What a clever idea! Maybe I should try out this "tact" thing some time, then.

Sorry for ruining everything I touch, solitayre.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
author=Solitayre
I liked this thread, but now it is doomed.
Why? explain your point precisely, pleaaase!
@ LockeZ : so, are-were you a teacher?
I've given lots of advice with tact that has resulted better than advice that doesn't. The recipient may not be happy either way, BUT the response is different, meaning they had a different reaction. I think that is a major deciding factor on whether or not the recipient takes it to heart.

In Locke's defense, you're getting him to agree to his stance on purely artistic measures, which is why the situations in question seem so ridiculous. No one's gonna stop a performer on the street to tell them what they are doing wrong. He can have an opinion on whether or not he likes the performance, and choose to or not to share it, but it's not the same as critique.

Critique is something applied to more quantitative things; things that can be labeled as easily as "done right," or "done wrong," or "could be done better." To use the other extreme in the argument, if someone has spelling and simple math errors in their game, and someone else decides to point them out, are you going to question their demeanor? That being said, many areas of critique are much more subjective but not NEARLY as much as fully artistic.

Regarding Locke's opinion about posting things on the internet for critique, it was unfair to blast SM like that. Posting things on the internet SUBJECTS you to criticism, but it doesn't have to be the reason for doing it. You're implying the only other reason involves vanity, but it's not necessarily true. While people might not be open to criticism, they could very well just wish to guage the reaction to the artistic whole of their creation (that is to say, they don't care about or ignore advice on non-technical critique that is subjective if they agree with themselves they have a created in their unique or targeted style correctly, but are simply more interested to know on whether or not people happen to like it, which is useful information).
I decided a long time ago that LockeZ was one of the most consistently wrong people on RMN, so of course I would disregard 99% or his opinions. This is nothing new and I sm surprised it's taken many of you this long to notice. He has always and will always be free to provide his input, but so am I to completely disregard it as irrelevant.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Yeah, to be completely honest, the chance of me actually stopping someone on the street to tell them advice is roughly 0%, because despite any ideals I may claim to have, my base survival instinct of not wanting to be punched in the face is going to kick in at that point. The internet seems to me to be an ideal forum for unsolicited critique because the chance of getting punched in the face is negligible! Long live the internet.

Chana, I was in fact an education major in college for a year and a half, until I remembered that I hate children. Then I changed my major back to computer science.

I consider hearing whether people like something or not to be part of critique! I assumed he meant he didn't even want to hear that. Which is something I've encountered before - people who only want you to give them compliments about their work, and get mad if anyone says anything about it that's not a compliment. That's what I thought he meant, and why it annoyed me. It's like, sometimes the dress actually does make you look fat, hon. I think I should tell you when it does, unless you don't mind looking fat.
Yeah, to be completely honest, the chance of me actually stopping someone on the street to tell them advice is roughly 0%, because despite any ideals I may claim to have, my base survival instinct of not wanting to be punched in the face is going to kick in at that point. The internet seems to me to be an ideal forum for unsolicited critique because the chance of getting punched in the face is negligible! Long live the internet.


At least you come out and say you like being an asshole because of the anonymity of the Internet.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
@LockeZ : thanks. but are you sure you really made that change to computer science.............(joking.. half ways!)
You hate children.... how much do you like yourself? House is a bad example of self-likingness!!!!!
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
tact is a great tool for advice giving! It complements it very well and increases the chance that advice is followed (which is an end-goal) ...but that is for another conversation.


Regarding Locke's opinion about posting things on the internet for critique, it was unfair to blast SM like that. Posting things on the internet SUBJECTS you to criticism, but it doesn't have to be the reason for doing it. You're implying the only other reason involves vanity, but it's not necessarily true. While people might not be open to criticism, they could very well just wish to guage the reaction to the artistic whole of their creation (that is to say, they don't care about or ignore advice on non-technical critique that is subjective if they agree with themselves they have a created in their unique or targeted style correctly, but are simply more interested to know on whether or not people happen to like it, which is useful information).


qft x 2

Can we get past this LockeZ tangent? It's certainly not uninteresting, but it's only peripherally related to the real issues we're discussing here.