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DIABLO 3 "VS" TORCHLIGHT 2
Posts
SmileWithStyle
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CloseAfter checking some info about Torchlight 2, I'm kinda looking forward to it more than Diablo 3, even though I loved D2 and hated Torchlight 1....
Even though it will have lower production values (and will cost less), it will at least have all I want from an ARPG game.... Tons of loot (GOOD LOOKING loot, big plus compared to Torchlight 1), many builds to build, and above all, OFFLINE singleplayer, and offline/online full modding support. Unlike D3, where Blizzard just sent a big "FOCK YO" to all the players without decent and stable internet connection, and to all the people who like modding the game (which increased the replayability and prolonged the life of both Torchlight 1 and Diablo 2, a LOT). Not to mention all the other crap they are pulling off with D3... ("..we are discouraging solo play..", focus on PvP, less control about your own character growth, more of an MMORPG than an ARPG, real money AH...)
Few months ago, I thought I would preorder D3 and ignore T2 , but right now, I feel like I will definitely get T2, and MIGHT not even get D3.
Any other ARPG fans feel something similar? I know that D3 will be THE game (with the amount of polish Blizzard can provide), but the more info they release about the game, the less I want to play the game/support the developers...
Even though it will have lower production values (and will cost less), it will at least have all I want from an ARPG game.... Tons of loot (GOOD LOOKING loot, big plus compared to Torchlight 1), many builds to build, and above all, OFFLINE singleplayer, and offline/online full modding support. Unlike D3, where Blizzard just sent a big "FOCK YO" to all the players without decent and stable internet connection, and to all the people who like modding the game (which increased the replayability and prolonged the life of both Torchlight 1 and Diablo 2, a LOT). Not to mention all the other crap they are pulling off with D3... ("..we are discouraging solo play..", focus on PvP, less control about your own character growth, more of an MMORPG than an ARPG, real money AH...)
Few months ago, I thought I would preorder D3 and ignore T2 , but right now, I feel like I will definitely get T2, and MIGHT not even get D3.
Any other ARPG fans feel something similar? I know that D3 will be THE game (with the amount of polish Blizzard can provide), but the more info they release about the game, the less I want to play the game/support the developers...
Darken
3952
Blizzard does not really deserve my money. I find it funny that Torchlight 1 and 2 will possibly come out before D3 even though 1 was made after D3 was announced or w/e. With multiplayer and a 20 dollar price tag, Torchlight 2 is enough for my ARPG addiction.
I was disappointed to hear about some of the things being done to Diablo 3 - especially earlier on when I didn't understand what they meant about character development (but fortunately, I just misunderstood).
I heard that there was a limit to the number of skills you could learn in D3 (like, it depends on your current level, with a maximum cap of 8 or something) which is kind of disappointing. I really liked what they (eventually) did with the skill trees and the synergies in D2. But then I know that some people thought that was wasteful or something because you had to spend skill points in skills you never used endgame (and I guess that bothered people? I guess some people think that ALL skills should be viable all game. Not me though. I like that characters progress in skills/abilities). It does feel a bit like there is less control about your own character growth, but I will reserve judgment on that until I play the game.
I am not a fan of the constant internet connection, because by the end I played D2 with mods or "hacks" just because it was more fun. I can't even connect to battle.net anymore anyway, because my CD key is nearly completely smeared off (and I've reinstalled the game on countless PCs over the past 10 years).
Discouraging solo play? I hadn't heard that, but if so, that is distressing. I despise PvP in all games, too. But from what I've read, the game can be completed solo and PvP has been segregated to "battle arenas", which are both good things!
Torchlight 2 looks pretty damn awesome, but I don't know too much about it. I found the first Torchlight to be somewhat tedious, so I hope 2 is an improvement.
I heard that there was a limit to the number of skills you could learn in D3 (like, it depends on your current level, with a maximum cap of 8 or something) which is kind of disappointing. I really liked what they (eventually) did with the skill trees and the synergies in D2. But then I know that some people thought that was wasteful or something because you had to spend skill points in skills you never used endgame (and I guess that bothered people? I guess some people think that ALL skills should be viable all game. Not me though. I like that characters progress in skills/abilities). It does feel a bit like there is less control about your own character growth, but I will reserve judgment on that until I play the game.
I am not a fan of the constant internet connection, because by the end I played D2 with mods or "hacks" just because it was more fun. I can't even connect to battle.net anymore anyway, because my CD key is nearly completely smeared off (and I've reinstalled the game on countless PCs over the past 10 years).
Discouraging solo play? I hadn't heard that, but if so, that is distressing. I despise PvP in all games, too. But from what I've read, the game can be completed solo and PvP has been segregated to "battle arenas", which are both good things!
Torchlight 2 looks pretty damn awesome, but I don't know too much about it. I found the first Torchlight to be somewhat tedious, so I hope 2 is an improvement.
ashriot
222
I am extremely excited about Diablo III, personally. Torchlight 1 was OK but I never even played through it once because I really enjoy playing caster types and I found the ember alchemist to be incredibly boring. TOrchlight 2 doesn't seem to be doing anything to push the genre forward, rather, they are just re-hashing more of Diablo II, which I enjoyed.... 10 years ago. It's still a great game but I just love the direction that D3 is moving with the genre.
Blizzard has updated their D3 site with a lot of great info, including a skill calculator:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/
Just the sheer number of combinations you can come up with utilizing the passives ans the runstones is completely ridiculous. I absolutely cannot wait to delve into this monster of a game and tweak and customize my wizard :D
Blizzard has updated their D3 site with a lot of great info, including a skill calculator:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/
Just the sheer number of combinations you can come up with utilizing the passives ans the runstones is completely ridiculous. I absolutely cannot wait to delve into this monster of a game and tweak and customize my wizard :D
I'm disappointed they're getting rid of the skill trees too. The D2 ones were awesome, especially when they added skill synergies years later. The new system doesn't sound bad, though. It allows you to be more flexible, at least. My understanding is you learn every skill, but you can only equip a certain number of them at a time which equates to your build. The online-only thing doesn't bother me since I'll only be playing it online anyway, but I can see how it's an issue for some. I loved Torchlight and will for sure be getting the sequel, but I am more excited for Diablo 3.
Hey I didn't know about any other sites than the official were providing this much more info. Looks pretty sweet... But as a wizard fan myself, I just don't like how the armor looks... I like the wizard herself (as if I would play a male char when I don't have to), but the armor.... not my cup of tea, hope there are some special-looking unique items.
Anyways, I am pretty sure the game itself will be quite awesome, but the way Blizzard goes about their business is truly pissing me off, and all the crap around still makes me not want to support them. I want to play the game itself, but with the online-only, that might not be too easy, not to mention the small, but noticable lag that was present in D2 when playing online, compared to 0 ms respond time in offline. Argh Blizzard, why do you torment me so much.
And yes, T1 was boring, and the classes were stupid, only 1-2 ways to build your character, and they shared many skills.... But play some of the new classes from mods, and voila, better classes. I am hoping that in T2, they learn from their mistakes and take in some feedback/suggestions, and manage to create quite a good ARPG (we desperately need more of those, and done well). And even if they slip, the modding community might solve any issues with the game anyways (they did a tremendous job of improving T1, however, when the base game is kinda crappy, there isn't that much they can do, but if T2 is good on it's own, imagine what the modders could do with it).
EDIT: This was mainly a response to ashriot, Jude posted before I could finish writing this :D Doesn't probably matter much, but thought I'd make that clear.
Anyways, I am pretty sure the game itself will be quite awesome, but the way Blizzard goes about their business is truly pissing me off, and all the crap around still makes me not want to support them. I want to play the game itself, but with the online-only, that might not be too easy, not to mention the small, but noticable lag that was present in D2 when playing online, compared to 0 ms respond time in offline. Argh Blizzard, why do you torment me so much.
And yes, T1 was boring, and the classes were stupid, only 1-2 ways to build your character, and they shared many skills.... But play some of the new classes from mods, and voila, better classes. I am hoping that in T2, they learn from their mistakes and take in some feedback/suggestions, and manage to create quite a good ARPG (we desperately need more of those, and done well). And even if they slip, the modding community might solve any issues with the game anyways (they did a tremendous job of improving T1, however, when the base game is kinda crappy, there isn't that much they can do, but if T2 is good on it's own, imagine what the modders could do with it).
EDIT: This was mainly a response to ashriot, Jude posted before I could finish writing this :D Doesn't probably matter much, but thought I'd make that clear.
ashriot
222
Yeah, I totally forgot about mods honestly. But just seeing all the awesome changes D3 is making makes me totally not care about Torchlight 1 or 2 or with/without mods.
I have always HATED potion chugging, it's just not an interesting gameplay mechanic. It's stupid. Running out of mana and just chugging potions is so retarded it makes my brain hurt. The way D3 is handling healing and potions is much more interesting and tactical. I would always play a caster and put points in Energy and my brother would laugh at me and tell me to start the game over because I'm wasting points. "Just buy mana pots." he'd say. Ugh.
Skill Trees in general are a very old mechanic that isn't very compelling. You simply pump points into the skills you want, nothing into the skills you don't want (or simply can't "afford" to pick up) and then 1 pt in everything else. That's not fun or interesting. The only Pro to the skill point system is that every level, you get to spend a point and you get to feel that slight boost in power.
But in D3, you get a new skill almost every single level until 30 at which point you can begin to try all kinds of different specs with skills/runes/passives. I am salivating at the various builds I've already made and can't wait to try them :D
As far as the online/offline goes, I personally don't care at all because I'm always connected to the Internet. I mean, if I'm on a plane, I'll just play something else. I like the convenience factor of having everything stored online for me with this always-connected approach. I can go to a friend's house with my laptop and just keep playing.
With the lag issue, D2 wasn't exactly the most advanced network, while I'm sure D3 will have a much stronger network because you're paying for a game that forces you to use their servers. This is all speculation though.
I have always HATED potion chugging, it's just not an interesting gameplay mechanic. It's stupid. Running out of mana and just chugging potions is so retarded it makes my brain hurt. The way D3 is handling healing and potions is much more interesting and tactical. I would always play a caster and put points in Energy and my brother would laugh at me and tell me to start the game over because I'm wasting points. "Just buy mana pots." he'd say. Ugh.
Skill Trees in general are a very old mechanic that isn't very compelling. You simply pump points into the skills you want, nothing into the skills you don't want (or simply can't "afford" to pick up) and then 1 pt in everything else. That's not fun or interesting. The only Pro to the skill point system is that every level, you get to spend a point and you get to feel that slight boost in power.
But in D3, you get a new skill almost every single level until 30 at which point you can begin to try all kinds of different specs with skills/runes/passives. I am salivating at the various builds I've already made and can't wait to try them :D
As far as the online/offline goes, I personally don't care at all because I'm always connected to the Internet. I mean, if I'm on a plane, I'll just play something else. I like the convenience factor of having everything stored online for me with this always-connected approach. I can go to a friend's house with my laptop and just keep playing.
With the lag issue, D2 wasn't exactly the most advanced network, while I'm sure D3 will have a much stronger network because you're paying for a game that forces you to use their servers. This is all speculation though.
ashriot
222
Haha, what are you talking about specifically?
And it's not like I'm trying to make it sound bad, I'm just describing why I'm not excited for Torchlight.
And it's not like I'm trying to make it sound bad, I'm just describing why I'm not excited for Torchlight.
author=ashriot
Haha, what are you talking about specifically?
"You simply pump points into the skills you want, nothing into the skills you don't want (or simply can't "afford" to pick up) and then 1 pt in everything else. "
ashriot
222
Well I don't know how you played D2, but that was the most efficient way to play that lead to the strongest characters. You want to maximize a single skill (maybe two) by pumping 20 points into it and all its synergies. If you and I were the same Sorc , let's say a Meteorb Sorc, we used the exact same skills in the exact same fashion and the only differentiating factor is our gear. If you didn't play D2 this way then that's fine but it's the same way Torchlight works and it's just not interesting to me.
Diablo III is going to give you lots of customization. We could be the exact same Wizard with Magic Missile, Arcane Orb, and Hydra. But we could have entirely different fighting styles because of the way runes work. That's what excites me the most. And of course gear would be different as well.
Diablo III is going to give you lots of customization. We could be the exact same Wizard with Magic Missile, Arcane Orb, and Hydra. But we could have entirely different fighting styles because of the way runes work. That's what excites me the most. And of course gear would be different as well.
wait, whats the difference between two characters the same skills augmented with different runes to make different skill effects, and two characters with different skills? (ie- more specifically, why do we have to both be meteorb sorcs?)
If we had the same skills and used the same runes, the only differentiating factor is our gear... :\
If we had the same skills and used the same runes, the only differentiating factor is our gear... :\
ashriot
222
There is no difference in that situation. It's just that there is the potential to have so many variants of Wizards in D3 with 25 skills that each have 5 rune combinations, that is way more options than you had in D2.
I just really doubt that you and I would want the same exact 6 skills with the same 6 runes in each skill. But it's very likely that we would both want Meteorb Sorc's in D2.
But I want to know what you think of the Diablo III system in general. It sounds like you don't really like it... what don't you like about it?
I just really doubt that you and I would want the same exact 6 skills with the same 6 runes in each skill. But it's very likely that we would both want Meteorb Sorc's in D2.
But I want to know what you think of the Diablo III system in general. It sounds like you don't really like it... what don't you like about it?
More info about D3 that I don't like...
1) 10 character slots. OMFG whaaaa-? "Why would you need more slots when you can just respec" is their reasoning basically. Because I want to take multiple builds through the game, instead of just switchning them around all the time? I seriously hope they change this, and don't come with something like "Pay for more slots, trololo".
2) Shared gold. This would be fine, if the game didn't FORCE it on you. The way it is now, your account has a single gold pool, and all your characters add gold to it, and have permanent acces to it. So if I want to play a new character withouth the money support, I either have to keep track of how much gold the character makes myself, or I can go f**k myself. Why isn't there some sort of toggle or separate pool for shared gold and character gold? I hope they change this, I sometimes like to play my characters "clean", with no twinking, not even monetary.
Jesus Blizzard, all the money clouding your brains? Seriously....
1) 10 character slots. OMFG whaaaa-? "Why would you need more slots when you can just respec" is their reasoning basically. Because I want to take multiple builds through the game, instead of just switchning them around all the time? I seriously hope they change this, and don't come with something like "Pay for more slots, trololo".
2) Shared gold. This would be fine, if the game didn't FORCE it on you. The way it is now, your account has a single gold pool, and all your characters add gold to it, and have permanent acces to it. So if I want to play a new character withouth the money support, I either have to keep track of how much gold the character makes myself, or I can go f**k myself. Why isn't there some sort of toggle or separate pool for shared gold and character gold? I hope they change this, I sometimes like to play my characters "clean", with no twinking, not even monetary.
Jesus Blizzard, all the money clouding your brains? Seriously....
I never heard of number 2
Oh I think it sounds pretty awesome! But I also of the opinion that Diablo II's synergy skill trees were pretty awesome too! That's what I took exception to. You just seem to be downplaying how awesome it was simply because it has been figured out and used optimally. D3's skill system will eventually be figured out too by the masses and some sort of optimal build for each class will arise. And while in both games there will be one (or two) optimal builds for each classes, there are going to be plenty of viable builds to try out and play!
Here are the issues I have with D3 (from what I heard):
1) Limit of 4 players in a single instance
2) Lack of offline or LAN play (I play with my wife, who sits at a PC a meter and a half away from me. Why does our data have to travel 2800 kms to communicate with each other when we play?)
3) Inability to use trainers etc... (My wife doesn't like to be challenged. When we start new characters in D2 (and we did that a LOT), we'd each give our chars a hacked charm that gave us +7 skills. It really helps reduce some of the tedium and kept the game fun for years)
author=ashriot
There is no difference in that situation. It's just that there is the potential to have so many variants of Wizards in D3 with 25 skills that each have 5 rune combinations, that is way more options than you had in D2.
I just really doubt that you and I would want the same exact 6 skills with the same 6 runes in each skill. But it's very likely that we would both want Meteorb Sorc's in D2.
But I want to know what you think of the Diablo III system in general. It sounds like you don't really like it... what don't you like about it?
Oh I think it sounds pretty awesome! But I also of the opinion that Diablo II's synergy skill trees were pretty awesome too! That's what I took exception to. You just seem to be downplaying how awesome it was simply because it has been figured out and used optimally. D3's skill system will eventually be figured out too by the masses and some sort of optimal build for each class will arise. And while in both games there will be one (or two) optimal builds for each classes, there are going to be plenty of viable builds to try out and play!
Here are the issues I have with D3 (from what I heard):
1) Limit of 4 players in a single instance
2) Lack of offline or LAN play (I play with my wife, who sits at a PC a meter and a half away from me. Why does our data have to travel 2800 kms to communicate with each other when we play?)
3) Inability to use trainers etc... (My wife doesn't like to be challenged. When we start new characters in D2 (and we did that a LOT), we'd each give our chars a hacked charm that gave us +7 skills. It really helps reduce some of the tedium and kept the game fun for years)
I'm reserving judgement for when the game comes out and I see it in action. Blizzard tends to never fail, though.
Oh one thing I heard about but haven't researched at all is - you no longer get points to assign to stats like Strongth/Dex/Vit/Energy on a level up. True/False?
EDIT:
True. :(
"One major change announced early in Diablo III's development was the elimination of player-assigned stat points. In Diablo III, each class gains various attribute points in attack, precision, vitality, defense, and willpower when they level up, and these are automatically assigned. The Diablo III developers felt the stat allocation in Diablo II was a poor way to provide character customization since players almost always followed an established build, which was always the best choice for a character. This removed any variety or individuality.
Stats can be modified in Diablo III in various ways: by traits, via charms in the talisman, and with equipment bonuses, including socketing gems."
:( :( :(
EDIT:
True. :(
"One major change announced early in Diablo III's development was the elimination of player-assigned stat points. In Diablo III, each class gains various attribute points in attack, precision, vitality, defense, and willpower when they level up, and these are automatically assigned. The Diablo III developers felt the stat allocation in Diablo II was a poor way to provide character customization since players almost always followed an established build, which was always the best choice for a character. This removed any variety or individuality.
Stats can be modified in Diablo III in various ways: by traits, via charms in the talisman, and with equipment bonuses, including socketing gems."
:( :( :(
ashriot
222
As far as the stat points going way goes, I also agree with why they did that. Again this is just optimizing, but you would put enough points into Strength to equip your gear, enough points in Dex for the amount of block you wanted, ZERO points in Energy, and the rest in Vitality.
That's not really very interesting, it's just annoying because for people who don't play a lot, if they don't realize this, their Strength could fall way behind and they'd be stuck with crap armor.
Like when I first started playing, I was a Necromancer. I was like "yay! I'm a mage!" so I put all my points into Energy every level. At about level 6 I started to realize that you just can't play the game that way. :(
I really think the new system is going to be much more inviting and fun.
SmileWithStyle, it does stink about the 10 character slots, but I really don't think you'll need more than that. Like Fallen-Griever said, it's not at all like D2 in regards to respeccing.
And shared gold, that was a HUGELY requested feature in D2. It was constantly begged for by fans for years: shared stash/gold. So they are just trying to do what the masses want.
Also, Kentona, I do agree with what you're saying, it's unfortunate that you're forced to go online, but I can see what their reasoning is, too. And I did the exact same thing with trainers, create a charm with +skills and sometimes +XP to speed things up a little. But hopefully the new system will let you start having fun right away!
That's not really very interesting, it's just annoying because for people who don't play a lot, if they don't realize this, their Strength could fall way behind and they'd be stuck with crap armor.
Like when I first started playing, I was a Necromancer. I was like "yay! I'm a mage!" so I put all my points into Energy every level. At about level 6 I started to realize that you just can't play the game that way. :(
I really think the new system is going to be much more inviting and fun.
SmileWithStyle, it does stink about the 10 character slots, but I really don't think you'll need more than that. Like Fallen-Griever said, it's not at all like D2 in regards to respeccing.
And shared gold, that was a HUGELY requested feature in D2. It was constantly begged for by fans for years: shared stash/gold. So they are just trying to do what the masses want.
Also, Kentona, I do agree with what you're saying, it's unfortunate that you're forced to go online, but I can see what their reasoning is, too. And I did the exact same thing with trainers, create a charm with +skills and sometimes +XP to speed things up a little. But hopefully the new system will let you start having fun right away!
author=Fallen-Grieverauthor=SmileWithStyleI don't think you understand how the "respec" option works. You don't make a standard build like in Diablo II, it's absolutely NOTHING like that.
More info about D3 that I don't like...
1) 10 character slots. OMFG whaaaa-? "Why would you need more slots when you can just respec" is their reasoning basically. Because I want to take multiple builds through the game, instead of just switchning them around all the time? I seriously hope they change this, and don't come with something like "Pay for more slots, trololo"
Respec is there for people who want to try various builds on the same character, and for people to try again if they screwed up their build, just as it was there in 1.13 in D2.
However, it is NOT for a player like me, who likes to figure out a build and go with it through the whole game, to really test the power of the build against all the game has to offer, only making minor adjustements. Then I make another character, with different build and playstyle philosophy (which the game WILL probably allow with the skill/rune system). Trying it all out on one character and constantly respeccing is not my idea of fun.
Besides, I am hoping D3 will stick around for a long time, and over a long period of time, I tend to make more and more characters to take through the game, trying different builds, finding different loot and going through different randomized maps. Basically, 10 slots allow me to go through the game 10 times and that's it, unless I delete some of my characters.... And I HATE having to delete my characters. Not to mention all the people who play softcore AND hardcore, for them, 10 slots is even more painful.
Keep in mind, Blizzard stated that it isn't impossible for the number to change, and I hope they come to their senses. Also, they would probably add more slots with datadiscs, but since they will also add new classes, that doesn't really help....
And to the stats being automated.... They already were, just as ashriot said. With little knowledge of the game, you already knew what stat point distribution you had to do to make the perfect maxed character, you didn't really have any choice, unless you were fine with willingly gimping your character or were going for some challenges (no vit builds, dex builds etc...) . Enough STR for all your equipment after bonuses, either pump DEX for max block or zero DEX/enough for decent hit chance, the rest in VIT, zero in ENERGY.
Stat system in D2 was actually pretty stupid. I don't think they had to streamline it and make it automated, but imho it's still better than the system in D2. They could have created a new system that actually worked nicely, that would have been better, but this current system works for me.
EDIT: To the shared gold thingy.... I don't mind shared gold, I just want them to make it seperate from character gold, so I can play a character without having acces to the millions of gold from my high level one. I like starting from scratch and "living off the land" sometimes, and so far it looks like they force one single gold pool for your whole account, which just stinks.
