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COLLECT THE CRYSTALS
Posts
Adon237
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CloseInspired by Final Fantasy, one of Liberty's posts, and my game, What is your take on games made in rpgmaker specifically have the main thing going on is to collect the crystals, and collect the stones, which people seem to dislike so much in these rpgmaker games?
it's just viewed as an overused trope, 'tis all. I guess people think they want something different...?
Irili
3198
If the story is well written and engaging then I don't mind the crystal collection plot. However, it is extremely overdone and more often than not, the story and characters involved are as stale as month old bread.
It's always, "Collect these crystals/stones/shards/fragments/what-have-you and save the world from an evil maniac set on the world's untimely destruction!"
Just once, I'd like to see a snarky thief set out to steal these crystals for profit or play as the villain who's goal is world domination AND see him/her WIN.
Or for once, I would love, absolutely LOVE, to see a hero who isn't a bumbling idiot and DOESN'T manage to let the enemy take the crystal right out from under his/her nose after a painstaking boss battle.
It's always, "Collect these crystals/stones/shards/fragments/what-have-you and save the world from an evil maniac set on the world's untimely destruction!"
Just once, I'd like to see a snarky thief set out to steal these crystals for profit or play as the villain who's goal is world domination AND see him/her WIN.
Or for once, I would love, absolutely LOVE, to see a hero who isn't a bumbling idiot and DOESN'T manage to let the enemy take the crystal right out from under his/her nose after a painstaking boss battle.
Crystalgate
694
I have nothing against the idea itself, but it's almost always handled with mediocrity. I can recall two collect the crystal scenarios that are more or less always used.
The first is where the hero needs to collect all of them to stop the big bad evil. This is the setup every Zelda game uses and is used as a convenient reason to get the hero into a dungeon. However, in RPGs, we typically don't want the author to just pick a convenient reason to force the heroes into a dungeon. Generally, we want a development in plot before we go to the next dungeon. Basically, we don't want to heroes to have the same reason to go into dungeon II as they had to go into dungeon I. It just doesn't make for a good story. You can however still do this if you're really confident that the gameplay is really fun.
The second common scenario is where the heroes have to stop the BBE from getting all crystals. The problem is that, he will inevitable get them all. Then once that's done, the heroes are going to defeat him despite the fact that it should have been much easier to defeat him before he got all the crystals.
I think you can make it interesting though. For example, imagine you have many factions warring for the crystals and the heroes for some reason also wants to get their hands on them. As long as you don't make it obvious how it will play out (say you have one obvious "evil" empire), this can lead to unpredictable and interesting events. It gets extra interesting if there are multiple rumors of what happens if someone gets them all.
The first is where the hero needs to collect all of them to stop the big bad evil. This is the setup every Zelda game uses and is used as a convenient reason to get the hero into a dungeon. However, in RPGs, we typically don't want the author to just pick a convenient reason to force the heroes into a dungeon. Generally, we want a development in plot before we go to the next dungeon. Basically, we don't want to heroes to have the same reason to go into dungeon II as they had to go into dungeon I. It just doesn't make for a good story. You can however still do this if you're really confident that the gameplay is really fun.
The second common scenario is where the heroes have to stop the BBE from getting all crystals. The problem is that, he will inevitable get them all. Then once that's done, the heroes are going to defeat him despite the fact that it should have been much easier to defeat him before he got all the crystals.
I think you can make it interesting though. For example, imagine you have many factions warring for the crystals and the heroes for some reason also wants to get their hands on them. As long as you don't make it obvious how it will play out (say you have one obvious "evil" empire), this can lead to unpredictable and interesting events. It gets extra interesting if there are multiple rumors of what happens if someone gets them all.
Airxzen
0
I actually have nothing agaisnt them
for my game has something to do with Crystals...well i should say Crystal.
But mine, Hopefully wont be a typical Go out and get it the Crystal.
The only thing i can say is. It has to be fun.
Thats all haha
for my game has something to do with Crystals...well i should say Crystal.
But mine, Hopefully wont be a typical Go out and get it the Crystal.
The only thing i can say is. It has to be fun.
Thats all haha
All right, let me share something from Stonesearch.
There are 25 parts, right? Well 5 of those parts involve the 4 super main characters(there are other main characters, but not as main as these 4) meeting up. After that, the stone searching begins. They figure out that the world has been dying for quite some time now, and soon it will be dead. This is because the eight Elemental Stones are missing from the 'Mythical' Stonesearch Tower, and even more cliche, of course, they must go out and find them. They aren't located in the typical Zelda dungeon, but where they are located, it seems like a dungeon. They find all but one of the stones in parts 6 - 12, and then the world enters a complete and utter chaos, they try to stop and find the source, but fail, and look for the last stone instead. Their is no central/main villain introduced until part 15, (13 involves inspecting the disaster, and 14 is searching for the last stone) when the disasters cause is finally discovered. In part 15, they search for the Stonesearch tower, and the main villain offers a trade. The stones for the way to the tower. Obviously the deal is stupid, and they decline, resulting in a battle which ends with the villain's victory, and he makes off with the stones. So very cliche like. In part 16, after hunting down the main villain, they battle him, and defeat him, and snatch back the stones, but the main villain in retaliation, he kidnaps the red haired boy. In part 17, they look for him, and at the end of part 17, they find where he is, In part 18, they go through the 'dungeon' and retrieve him. They find out then, that the main villain is in Stonesearch Tower, and the 'dungeon' that they are in is the link to it. They arrive at Stonesearch Tower at part 19,(Stonesearch tower is the setting in plots 19-25) and encounter the main villain, who seems uninterested about their affairs, and takes off. The rest of part 19 involves them getting through the first floor of deadly traps and horrid monsters of the Stonesearch Tower. Part 20 involves getting through the second floor, and no encounters with the main villain occur. In part 21, some of the villains henchmen battle them, proving that the main villain still at least has some interest in their affairs. The rest of 21 involves them getting through the rest of the third floor, where they encounter a strange mirror. In part 22, they step on the large pedestal in front of the giant mirror, and they get warped into it. Part 22 involves Jade's dream in the mirror, and Justin's also. Part 23 is Savyon's dream, and then, Abraxas's. Part 24, they end up at the fourth floor. There, they realize that the stones are not with them, upon a little more exploration, they come across the main villain, who taunts them for having losing the stones, and some henchman appear near the end of the scene bringing the stones to the main villain. The party battles the main villain to retrieve the stones, but the main villain, who has become stronger since their last battle, obliterated them. The henchman steal all of their equipment,
leaving them low on HP, and with no weapons to fend off the dangers with. The rest of Part 24 involves getting through the fourth floor without your equipment. Upon the end of Part 24, they find the ever so long staircase to the last and highest Fifth Floor.
In Part 25, the party treks the stair case, and arrives on the Fifth Floor. On the fifth floor, they encounter the main villain, who has all of the stones. The main villain opens up a spiraling portal of darkness, and throws the stones into it. At once, they all heard a rumble, the rumble of the earth below the tower shaking.(The tower is in the sky), the main villain laughs, and then the portal explodes, taking the main villain, and the party into an odd spiraling darkness. There, the main villain battles them. (The main villain has 4 forms) After the exhausting semi-final battle,
the main villain explodes, and the party teleports to Aloea, a small island village.
Looking up above, the party sees that the Maiosoloa Volcano was shaking. Soon, tons of grey smoke erupted from the volcano. A massive grey spirit rushed towards party, and battles them. Ahh god, is there a posting limit? I think I might have to cut some of this off.
This basically was an excuse to share some of Stonesearch's story, and looking for approval, and yes, this sounds really messy and unplanned, but this came almost straight from the development notes...
I agree with Crystalgate, you shouldn't force a player into a dungeon to prolong the game play or something like that. You should make it blend with the storyline/plot.
Though sometimes, desperate measures need to be taken if you haven't had enough dungeon, and you still don't have all of the crystals/stones/shards/fragments.
There are 25 parts, right? Well 5 of those parts involve the 4 super main characters(there are other main characters, but not as main as these 4) meeting up. After that, the stone searching begins. They figure out that the world has been dying for quite some time now, and soon it will be dead. This is because the eight Elemental Stones are missing from the 'Mythical' Stonesearch Tower, and even more cliche, of course, they must go out and find them. They aren't located in the typical Zelda dungeon, but where they are located, it seems like a dungeon. They find all but one of the stones in parts 6 - 12, and then the world enters a complete and utter chaos, they try to stop and find the source, but fail, and look for the last stone instead. Their is no central/main villain introduced until part 15, (13 involves inspecting the disaster, and 14 is searching for the last stone) when the disasters cause is finally discovered. In part 15, they search for the Stonesearch tower, and the main villain offers a trade. The stones for the way to the tower. Obviously the deal is stupid, and they decline, resulting in a battle which ends with the villain's victory, and he makes off with the stones. So very cliche like. In part 16, after hunting down the main villain, they battle him, and defeat him, and snatch back the stones, but the main villain in retaliation, he kidnaps the red haired boy. In part 17, they look for him, and at the end of part 17, they find where he is, In part 18, they go through the 'dungeon' and retrieve him. They find out then, that the main villain is in Stonesearch Tower, and the 'dungeon' that they are in is the link to it. They arrive at Stonesearch Tower at part 19,(Stonesearch tower is the setting in plots 19-25) and encounter the main villain, who seems uninterested about their affairs, and takes off. The rest of part 19 involves them getting through the first floor of deadly traps and horrid monsters of the Stonesearch Tower. Part 20 involves getting through the second floor, and no encounters with the main villain occur. In part 21, some of the villains henchmen battle them, proving that the main villain still at least has some interest in their affairs. The rest of 21 involves them getting through the rest of the third floor, where they encounter a strange mirror. In part 22, they step on the large pedestal in front of the giant mirror, and they get warped into it. Part 22 involves Jade's dream in the mirror, and Justin's also. Part 23 is Savyon's dream, and then, Abraxas's. Part 24, they end up at the fourth floor. There, they realize that the stones are not with them, upon a little more exploration, they come across the main villain, who taunts them for having losing the stones, and some henchman appear near the end of the scene bringing the stones to the main villain. The party battles the main villain to retrieve the stones, but the main villain, who has become stronger since their last battle, obliterated them. The henchman steal all of their equipment,
leaving them low on HP, and with no weapons to fend off the dangers with. The rest of Part 24 involves getting through the fourth floor without your equipment. Upon the end of Part 24, they find the ever so long staircase to the last and highest Fifth Floor.
In Part 25, the party treks the stair case, and arrives on the Fifth Floor. On the fifth floor, they encounter the main villain, who has all of the stones. The main villain opens up a spiraling portal of darkness, and throws the stones into it. At once, they all heard a rumble, the rumble of the earth below the tower shaking.(The tower is in the sky), the main villain laughs, and then the portal explodes, taking the main villain, and the party into an odd spiraling darkness. There, the main villain battles them. (The main villain has 4 forms) After the exhausting semi-final battle,
the main villain explodes, and the party teleports to Aloea, a small island village.
Looking up above, the party sees that the Maiosoloa Volcano was shaking. Soon, tons of grey smoke erupted from the volcano. A massive grey spirit rushed towards party, and battles them. Ahh god, is there a posting limit? I think I might have to cut some of this off.
This basically was an excuse to share some of Stonesearch's story, and looking for approval, and yes, this sounds really messy and unplanned, but this came almost straight from the development notes...
I agree with Crystalgate, you shouldn't force a player into a dungeon to prolong the game play or something like that. You should make it blend with the storyline/plot.
Though sometimes, desperate measures need to be taken if you haven't had enough dungeon, and you still don't have all of the crystals/stones/shards/fragments.
facesforce
442
author=Irili
If the story is well written and engaging then I don't mind the crystal collection plot. However, it is extremely overdone and more often than not, the story and characters involved are as stale as month old bread.
It's always, "Collect these crystals/stones/shards/fragments/what-have-you and save the world from an evil maniac set on the world's untimely destruction!"
Just once, I'd like to see a snarky thief set out to steal these crystals for profit or play as the villain who's goal is world domination AND see him/her WIN.
Or for once, I would love, absolutely LOVE, to see a hero who isn't a bumbling idiot and DOESN'T manage to let the enemy take the crystal right out from under his/her nose after a painstaking boss battle.
This inspires me to make a rpg about a thief whom is suposed to be THE THIEF, a thief so good he steals his own name and body so he could be born in the first place.
As for the collect the crystals... It depends on its execution whether it is good or not. Older games like final fantasy used it as a simple premise for the game to play with pre-established goals in mind. If I remember, the two most overused concepts is there is an evil enemy or collect the crystals to save the world.
Irili
3198
Adon, please break up the wall of text into paragraphs. It sounds like the beginning is up until part 5. I can't really see where the climax of the story is (part 15 maybe)?
Crystals can't hold up a game on their own, but they work as a basic plot device if they are used to introduce the meat of a game, like characters or fighting. If your fighting system is a blast, then the use of a generic plot device may be acceptable. That being said, if you use a generic plot device to introduce generic battles and generic characters...
Irili
3198
author=slashphoenix
Crystals can't hold up a game on their own, but they work as a basic plot device if they are used to introduce the meat of a game, like characters or fighting. If your fighting system is a blast, then the use of a generic plot device may be acceptable. That being said, if you use a generic plot device to introduce generic battles and generic characters...
...then just say NO!
I wasn't aware there were many crystal-oriented RPG Maker games unless one assumes most RPG Maker games are FF-ripoffs of some form, in which case confirmation bias rears its ugly head.
I'd actually like to see such an RM game, now that I think about it...
I'd actually like to see such an RM game, now that I think about it...
Oh yeah, that game was pretty cool (apart from the Rudra rips that got to me in the end - mostly my problem though)
Space_Monkey
366
not a big fan of collect the crystal. if i liked a game with it, i liked it despite collect the crystal not because collect the crystal ex. fft. furthermore, in 100% of the games that come to mind, I liked it less because of crystals and feel like I would have liked those games more with a non-crystal storyline.
author=Space_Monkey
not a big fan of collect the crystal. if i liked a game with it, i liked it despite collect the crystal not because collect the crystal ex. fft. furthermore, in 100% of the games that come to mind, I liked it less because of crystals and feel like I would have liked those games more with a non-crystal storyline.
Apart a few exceptions, I agree 100%!
LDanarkos
430
I almost posted this same topic at the same time. I think it's just horribly cliche. But at the same time, I think whenever you collect a star piece, a piece of the tri-force, fill one of the four orbs, etc., it gives you a sense of accomplishment, like a non-functional reward. Now I like that. So I think if you can incorporate that, and just try to present it in a less cliche way, then it will be nice. It helps if the union of these things makes total sense, i.e. if there were a shattered tablet, and reuniting them all allows you to read some special message, which may unlock a magical door, add a crucial spell to your spellbook, or whatever. The challenge is to make your reward system take the form of something that the player doesn't realize it's a cliche collect all of the crystals trope. Maybe rescue all of the... exiles. Maybe... collect sufficient clues to solve the mystery of the game (who killed someone, who stole the important thing, or w/e). I dunno, I can't make anything up that's not cliche.
Irili
3198
Actually, if the crystals gave you some kind of power-up or opened up new jobs (aka. FF 5), then I loved them. I felt like I was really gaining some ground when I collected shards and so on.
author=Irili
Actually, if the crystals gave you some kind of power-up or opened up new jobs (aka. FF 5), then I loved them. I felt like I was really gaining some ground when I collected shards and so on.
Actually, this, yea. It's such a letdown when you collect something vastly important and all-powerful to help you, but really all it does is push the plot forward. When I collect the orbs or the crystals or the sage medallions or whatever, I want to feel like I'm using the power from that item to help me, because that's what anyone with half a brain and an ancient relic would do.
UPRC
5516
What crystal collecting games need more of is complete and utter failure on the part of the heroes. I want the villain to snag all the crystals and bring ruin to the world. That's a curveball which is horribly underused.
The only villains who I remember pulling this off are two Final Fantasy villains, Exdeath and Kefka (though the latter collected power instead, and wasn't actively pursued).
The only villains who I remember pulling this off are two Final Fantasy villains, Exdeath and Kefka (though the latter collected power instead, and wasn't actively pursued).
Hoddmimir
200
author=UPRC
What crystal collecting games need more of is complete and utter failure on the part of the heroes. I want the villain to snag all the crystals and bring ruin to the world. That's a curveball which is horribly underused.
The only villains who I remember pulling this off are two Final Fantasy villains, Exdeath and Kefka (though the latter collected power instead, and wasn't actively pursued).
Sonic the Hedgehog. Sometimes. The guy always gets away and with gems or whatever they were until the end when yeah he does get defeated. Man now I want to play Sonic. :(
