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Skills and Skill Trees

  • Volrath
  • 05/06/2021 12:55 AM
  • 2418 views
This was the winner of my little poll last time, so let's talk mad skillz (that pay the billz).


In Legacy, most (not all) skills are learned via skill trees. They are unlocked when a character learns the first skill in a tree and then skill points are needed to teach yourself the rest. Early in the game, Bradley chooses a school of magic and casts his first spell during a cutscene. At this point, the skill tree for his chosen element is available. There is a similar scenario for unlocking the skill tree for your chosen weapon. The classmates also get their skill trees at approximately the same time.

How does one get skill points? Well, this part is not yet set in stone. At the moment, the system is set up so that you get one at every other level (3,5,7, etc). It's hard to know if this is a balanced way to go about it just from my own testing, where I'm constantly bouncing all over the place. I doubt I'll know for sure until I get to the point where testing is being done by others. Fomar's script allows skill points to be awarded during events and I've considered using them as a reward for particularly challenging quests. However, that comes with the risk of giving too many skill points too early. I wouldn't want people to max out the trees too quick since the higher level skills are quite strong.

Are there more skills than just these two trees? Oh yes.

Later in the game, Bradley and his classmates will choose a specialization for their chosen school of magic. The names and details will vary, but they all boil down to a choice between one path that is based on offensive power and another path that is more tactical. For example, a water mage eventually decides whether to be a Hydromancer who hits enemies with huge amounts of water, or an Atmosphere Mage who relies on more subtle uses of magic to debilitate enemies. Your classmates will have this choice too. They will reveal in conversations which way they are leaning and if you have a high enough friendship level, you can persuade them to pick a different choice (if you want).

Then there are the guilds.

The city of Gallia has a guild corresponding to each of the six schools of elemental magic. Joining one will give access to highly advanced spells designed to maximize the effectiveness of your chosen element. You will also eventually learn the "grandmaster" skill, which is the big daddy that will pulverize your enemies.

The guilds are not implemented yet. You can walk around and talk to some of the mages but you can't yet become a member. Given the high level skills involved, you have to invest a nice chunk of change to get your membership. I don't think it will be possible to buy the membership in the demo whenever it's ready unless the player grinds like crazy but if they do, they won't get very far. If that happens, sorry in advance.

I've gone back and forth on whether to have another skill tree for the guild. If all you have to do is learn the first spell and then wait for the skill points to come, then there isn't much reason to go to the guild. I'd like them to be places that the player returns to frequently.

The last place to learn a skill is the Institute of Weapons, which was once the Gallian barracks that Arius and co. seized in Clean Slate. The building has been converted into an elite facility where people can get some additional training. This will cost money too, but not as much. It will likely be in the demo. The catch here is that because the place is so popular, the only way to get an appointment is to meet the instructor outside of the place. Once they know you, you'll be able to get in. Your classmates will eventually go on their own, all you have to do is introduce them to the right trainer. The skills learned here are based on TP, which are basically limit breaks in case you aren't familiar with VX Ace. For the moment, there is only one skill available there but I may add more later on.

I think that covers it for now. Feel free to chime in with any thoughts or ideas. Peace bros!

Posts

Pages: 1
Ronove
More like Misao Stealing Prince
2867
I think it sounds neat! A way I think to keep people from getting too many skills too early if you do decide to go for the reward a skill point kinda thing is to make the higher ones cost more than one skill point? On the basis of it's more advanced, ergo, taking more skill to learn.

I do like the idea of customization though! I just hope testing it all won't be a pain!
CashmereCat
Self-proclaimed Puzzle Snob
11638
Ooh, skill trees and specialisations - very nice! Also, I noticed you mentioned friendships, and I’m curious how you will implement friendship systems and subtle indications of their leanings in conversation. Very customisable, and very “go your own way” <3
NeverSilent
Got any Dexreth amulets?
6299
Ronove already mentioned the idea of having increasing costs for more advanced skills, which was my first thought. Another idea I'll just randomly throw in is the possibility of acquiring passive abilities (in addition to the existing active skills) to customise a character and the way they function, though this could be done using equipment or consumable items, too.

Another game that makes excellent use of skill trees as well is Weird and Unfortunate Things Are Happening. You could ask its creator unity how they balanced this mechanic.

Generally, big stamp of approval from me. Skill trees seem like a much more interesting approach to increasing in power than the standardised levelling-based skill learning you usually find in RPG Maker. (I won't suggest trying out skill combos again, though. We know what that leads to.)
author=Ronove
A way I think to keep people from getting too many skills too early if you do decide to go for the reward a skill point kinda thing is to make the higher ones cost more than one skill point?

This has crossed my mind, I can't remember if the current script is equipped to do something like that. Fomar made some of these so long ago that he might not remember either haha. At least this isn't as pressing of an issue since like I said, I don't think I can judge it just on my own experience. I'll need to have several people test to get a better idea. Testing is weird with this game because it's so non-linear. I certainly don't expect anyone to try every scenario, I'll just have to get enough people to cover as much of it as I can.

author=CashmereCat
I noticed you mentioned friendships, and I’m curious how you will implement friendship systems and subtle indications of their leanings in conversation.

Friendship works with a variable assigned to each of the classmates. You choose one of them to adventure with every day, which increases the friendship. At a certain point, this unlocks unique quests and other effects like being able to influence their decision regarding the specialization.

author=NeverSilent
(I won't suggest trying out skill combos again, though. We know what that leads to.)

Funny you should mention that, because there ARE combo skills in this game and they work very smoothly. Scripting in general has come a long way since the days of "Squdgeon" and "Bone All." We also had one in World Remade although there wasn't much of a chance to use it.
Ronove
More like Misao Stealing Prince
2867
author=Volrath
Friendship works with a variable assigned to each of the classmates. You choose one of them to adventure with every day, which increases the friendship. At a certain point, this unlocks unique quests and other effects like being able to influence their decision regarding the specialization.


Can you ever screw up a friendship and get negative points? :O
author=Ronove
Can you ever screw up a friendship and get negative points? :O

Not at the moment. It wouldn't be too hard to do, but I strain to think of examples given how mild-mannered Bradley is. If it were Cade or Eddie, that would be a different story.
CashmereCat
Self-proclaimed Puzzle Snob
11638
author=Volrath
Friendship works with a variable assigned to each of the classmates. You choose one of them to adventure with every day, which increases the friendship. At a certain point, this unlocks unique quests and other effects like being able to influence their decision regarding the specialization.


Oh right! I'm so interested in meta story mechanics like this, since I feel we're still trying to get good at this as game designers. Is it based on simply who you choose to adventure with, or is it based on conversational choices you make? I played a game recently where you made conversational decisions, and based on a binary decision it either gave you friendship points, or it didn't. I felt that was a little simplistic, it made me want to save scum, haha! So I'm interested in how you implement it :)
I'm also not huge on relationship systems where one dialogue choice can tank everything. The main friendship variable increases each time you choose one of your classmates to adventure with you for the day. This also controls the brief conversations that occur each time they join the party. Separate from that are a few other events that may unlock an additional conversation or reward down the line.
CashmereCat
Self-proclaimed Puzzle Snob
11638
Nice! I like <3
NeverSilent
Got any Dexreth amulets?
6299
That makes me wonder whether one could implement changes in friendship value if the player / Bradley lets party members get KOed in battle too often or makes them use items or abilities they don't like. Though that might become a little Pokemon-esque, now that I think about it.
I'll just say scripts can be changed, its been so long I don't remember how they're implemented.

As for the specialisations I was hoping to see things like Danika using lightning magic to create illusions, Cleon's earth (time?) magic. Light and Dark magic got explored considerably in Master of the Wind, I was always curious re Solik's suggestions that the other elemental magics might hold secrets like the angel wings and lich forms.

I saw the combo skills got mentioned, we recently adjusted them slightly but they exist. Sadly I'm not aware that Bone All is returning.
author=NeverSilent
That makes me wonder whether one could implement changes in friendship value if the player / Bradley lets party members get KOed in battle too often or makes them use items or abilities they don't like.
Oh my that sounds like it could singlehandedly add another year to this game's development. And if the classmates are blaming Bradley and not the monster that knocked them out, they need a talking to!

author=Fomar0153
As for the specialisations I was hoping to see things like Danika using lightning magic to create illusions, Cleon's earth (time?) magic. Light and Dark magic got explored considerably in Master of the Wind, I was always curious re Solik's suggestions that the other elemental magics might hold secrets like the angel wings and lich forms.
I would enjoy getting more into that as well but storywise I don't think it makes sense. The Hand officers were highly experienced mages with great talent and these are teenagers who have only been using magic for a handful of days. Maybe in the third act of the game, there might be an opportunity to introduce those rarer types of magic.
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