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vacant sky's failure and the trends of selling rtp to stupid humans

  • TFT
  • 06/25/2012 02:34 PM
  • 38510 views
vacant sky awakening recently tried to "kickstart" it's way to success by generating 20k from people via crowdfunding. "reinventing" classical rpgs. a very bold thing to say, almost as bold as penny arcade's rain precipice for darkness saying in a lot of way's saying their game is visually "superior" than snes rpgs. first of all, fuck you dude, please do not make these ridiculous statements, especially when penny arcade is throwing the least amount of money to create


ff6 edits: check
grandia battle system: check
hand drawn images not blending with pixels: check

i totally agree. it is vastly superior than:


-bird-

reinventing rpgs. with the crowdfunding goal of 20k. is 20k a lot? i would assume it is by any standard. let's take a look at the trailer, and you decide.


so you're treated with a lot of voice acting and then anime images panning across the screen. fair enough, that's not bad at all. i can let the anime slide because that is just, this generations standard for "art". the problem lies when you see actual gameplay. not only do you have charset move up, it's so hollow, so uninspiring that it's just, i couldn't believe this thing is trying to generate 20k. the battle system is unfinished there is absolutely no sneak peak in the trailer at all for the "reinventing" of rpgs. infact, the video software that does the impressive visual effects is more entertaining than the game itself.

i will tell you how much rtp move up generated just by this trailer alone. almost 10k. now, if the set amount is 20k, which is ridiculous, and if the guy who created this game (this is a team effort btw lol wut) does the crowd funding again, and drops it to 10k, you know he's just trying to get any kind of money for whatever reason. someone actually asked what the money would be used for and the reply was deadspace.

where is the reinventing? all i see is a guy trying to slip through the cracks trying to get a ton of fucking money for as little work as possible. i'm going to say this right now, because i truly believe this, and that is i want rm designer to succeed. i want nothing more than to see these amazingly creative people get taken seriously. but when we have guys like this saying you're reinventing rpg's with rtp garbage, and try to sell it commercially you're just apart of the problem.

if you're going to crowdfund. and if you're going to ask for 20k. that's a REALLY big step, and that's a really big deal. and you know what dude, the least you, or anyone else can do is put the fucking effort behind it. get a prototype, make the game on your own, stop using stock resources not even created for your game. it's a joke, man, that you have the melons to actually post a game like that asking for 20k.

you might be thinking, tft, get out baddie, fair enough, but i'm not specifically addressing vacant sky. let's take a look unemployment quest.


generated 10k. and for what? the guy has 10k, okay. he isn't even humanly capable of getting a composer to fit the games musical quality. that should be a red flag right there. this guy is so bad, he didn't even take the time and effort to do anything with the battle set up, yeah, he used the default "everything". why exactly is he being rewarded for this? 10 for a faceset with a weird rape face.

author=ciel
Anyone can produce something resembling an "old school" game in RPG Maker within several seconds. This does not mean they are an "indie" game developer, or capable of a level of design and production worthy of anyone's pledge. Before supporting a project, ascertain that the developer is communicating clear, specific ideas about his design and vision for the game. Vague, tired platitudes about how "classic" or "traditional" it's going to be are not a guarantee of quality. Design philosophy, gameplay specifics, and solid reasoning are things to look for when determining which projects to fund. Use your eyes and brain before throwing money at any kid with a copy of RPG Maker. Quality, skill, and dedication should be evident.

******************

A comment the creator made on this video and deleted:

Dude, why does my game's success make you so upset? If you? use RPG Maker you should be aware that it takes more than 30 seconds to craft something worth playing. And charging $5 for a copy is considerably less than most commercial RPG Maker games. I'm sorry my game upsets you so much. But it's not like I ever said it wasn't made in RPG Maker and the ability to sell RPG Maker games has long been one of the selling points of the program.

--

Even if you say it's RPG Maker, most people aren't aware of what that entails and don't know that the content you are showing already exists in the engine when you click "New Project". They just see something that looks like a "Classic RPG" and can't discern between pre-made content and a genuine effort. Asking for money when you can't even be bothered to change something as simple as the default monster formations is shameful, and presenting it as your own work (for which you expect to be compensated) is insincere. Buyer beware, etc.


unemployment quest guy, fuck you bro. people like you getting carried is the reason vacant sky thinks it can too.

here it comes. the grand daddy of all. holy shit it just might blow your socks off. i'm scared to even write about it, because it's so taboo. echoes of eternia. the mother of all crowdfunding scams when it comes to rpgmaker. where does one even begin? i... i can't. i can't do this to someone who might read this. it's just too painful. i refuse.

since theres no youtube, theres no official website for this i would post the crowdfunding link, but it is just too disgusting. 40k friends. 40k.

http://i.imgur.com/UJjGP.jpg
oh my god, dude, stop hiding your shitty game behind clever wording! now, you're probably saying to yourself. lolujelly bro. sure, why not. let's get that out of the way. i am jealous that people can produce no effort and no work, and get paid like a boss. i'm not jealous of their work though. um, it's just that there is all this weird stuff happening outside the rm community, i feel like this should be broadcasted to you because it feels like rm designers live on another planet sometimes.

even to the moon was a stretch. it was an alright concept, considering it had 0 gameplay. and the fact that it lagged so bad on my brand new computer.

look man, it sounds harsh, but believe me, i love indie games, i love games in general. i love the concept of creation and creativity. the power to do incredible things. i don't have a problem with people who want to toy around and make rtp games and using the resources available to them to make a project. i do have a problem with people who think they should be getting 40k for doing so.

if you're prepared to make that step, put the fucking effort into the game you assholes. i know the circle jerk community gives the illusion that your game is the new final fantasy 6, but it's not dude, there are people in the indie scene doing crazy amazing things while you're still using rtp tiles.

i love indie, i love supporting games. fez was made by 2 people, super meat boy is made by a few people. iconoclasts, let's talk about iconoclasts.


one guy, managed to create amazing music for himself, the most bitchin' graphics, incredible gameplay, and it's a unique experience. this should be the standard, but it's not. games like this should be funded. and it's a tragedy if it isn't.

as long as these games like unemployment quest keep getting successful, it just keeps pushing that idea that rm games are infact shitty, and a joke. there are many games here that i would easily pay 5 bucks to experience. but those games also put to time and the effort to be different and unique, even with the resource restriction, and you can tell the difference in quality.

if you think i'm a dick, don't agree, i'm jelly, etc, ect. fair enough. i respect your opinions, that's totally your right. i wouldn't blame you.

if these rants interest you, there will be plenty more at

http://audiomew.tumblr.com/

Posts

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TFT
WHOA wow wow. two tails? that is a sexy idea...
368
fuck you tft. -bird-
DE
*click to edit*
1313
Pardon my French, but holy fucking shit!

This is it. People who play RPG Maker games are gullible morons. Ask yourself, is it even worth making a game for such audience?

LET'S REINVENT CLASSICAL RPGSSSS!
Ciel
an aristocrat of rpgmaker culture
243
*applauds*
This is my favorite blog post around these parts in a looong while. I'm practically in tears! Both of laughter and of utter sadness...

Of course I don't agree with every over-cynical bit of it, but I dismiss those as just comedic effect.

"...it feels like rm designers live on another planet sometimes." <- This is truer than truth, though.
Ocean
Resident foodmonster
11243
And here I was just thinking, gee if I could lower my standards (likely involving a shovel at this point) and switch to VX, I could crowdfund my way into ultimate slackerdom...

ugh.

I like the idea that people out there are willing to support small projects, but that comes with the risk that the wrong kind of projects are going to gobble up the funds.

I would love to see the demographics on the donors.
I totally agree. If you're going to sell something you made in rpg maker, fair enough...if it's good enough to stand on it's own and you didn't just strap together the rtp stuff.

What this guy is doing is completely different, asking for several grand to continue his RPG maker project, which is all stuff ripped from another game.

Having said that, I'm sure anyone who's spent a lot of time on their RPG maker project would love a world where they could legitimately sell it without feeling bad.
DE
*click to edit*
1313
What worries me is that people are willing to throw twenty grand at a guy making HIS FIRST RPG MAKER GAME! Story? Chosen one saves the world from the Darkness... *facepalm*

6 people paid the guy $350 each! Who are they, his close family? I thought there was economic downturn going on? How does a guy making his first RTP game fool so many people into giving him $20.000? Is he a world-renowned hypnotist? Somebody explain this to meee!
idk seems like this whole money thing gives people more reasons to be lazy and complain a game is going to take x years because they can't manage their job and their time well. I'm wondering if the whole economic crisis has to do with a lot of stupid people being able to get money. Like uh, occupy wallstreet hobo randomly just gets 10k despite all this 'turmoil' idk, just proves I don't understand the world very well.

I'd just like to see more RM games with bold ideas but staying within their amateur means. Like most stuff made in RM is half hearted garbage now. I would say that's due to nostalgia, but eh, I've been playing a lot of old rm2k games lately I never touched and they always seem "down to earth" like there's no real "RPG catering" to it, people just try to tell a story and maybe some fun battles without the need to fill their games with features. even the most average of games have a personal touch to them that can't be replicated with money or scripts. sdgfsdgsaad why do i even care anymore.
I can't agree with that. I like that people are trying to expand the scope of RPG maker. It is built to make games just like the old final fantasies, but people have made custom menus and all sorts of stuff that is so much cooler and more individual.

I don't even mind when people over reach as long as they are going for something cool...not just out and out going nuts like that future tower stuff with it's online multiplayer.
DE
*click to edit*
1313
Custom menus are that personal touch now? What about, I don't know, AN ORIGINAL STORY? Non-cliched, non-idiot characters? Non-anime fantasy setting? Not this regurgitated crap about the chosen one defeating the Dark Lord with the power of friendship?

I agree with Darken on the topic of newer amateur games being somewhat engineered and lacking in personality. What are the chances nowadays of someone setting out to make something along the lines of The Longing Ribbon, ABL, Grave Spirit, Backstage, just to name a few, instead of pandering to the RPG crowd in order to gain popularity, and by popularity I mean followers on FB and Twitter. Now the same people are "scamming" gamers on Kickstarter or Indiegogo through endless fantasy games based on a formula that was tired in bloody 1994! That was nearly 20 years ago! And they have the nerve of claiming their games are "reinventing the classic jRPG formula" or "offering a unique twist on the old RPG story" You know why they do it? Because in the world of crowdfunding, people don't feel like it's worth it anymore to spend hours on end making a free, but unique game that is a realization of their own vision. They'd rather appeal to the lowest common denominator and suck their dicks wallets dry. That's the sad truth. There's fewer and fewer game developers that do it out of the love for the hobby, for the joy of creation, and more that see it as means of generating a quick buck fooling around in VX making RTP maps. I mean, getting a real job is hard in this economy, am I right?

Rant over.
author=DE
They'd rather appeal to the lowest common denominator and suck their dicks wallets dry. That's the sad truth. There's fewer and fewer game developers that do it out of the love for the hobby, for the joy of creation, and more that see it as means of generating a quick buck fooling around in VX making RTP maps.

There are definitely people like this out there, but I doubt these are the motivations of these particular Kickstarter projects. Most new developers have extremely derived ideas, and given the background on these projects, I genuinely believe they want to make these games. A lot of new developers also have the mindset that they can clone entire games, yet because it's THEIR GAME it's somehow original and reinvents the landscape of the genre.

I think a lot of the illegitimate projects on Kickstarter are genuine efforts but horribly thought out. That said, it's extremely arrogant and naive for them to ask to be paid when they don't know what they're doing or getting into.
author=DE
6 people paid the guy $350 each! Who are they, his close family? I thought there was economic downturn going on? How does a guy making his first RTP game fool so many people into giving him $20.000? Is he a world-renowned hypnotist? Somebody explain this to meee!

In my country, the average Joe is earning more money, but the unemployment is raising. A lot of the downturn is money becoming unevenly distributed and that may actually lead to more people donating to stupid projects. If you love RPGs and have more money than you need, you're probably more likely to start founding kickstarter RPG projects than if you just had what you need to live reasonable comfortable.

Also, I suspect that kickstarter is currently a beacon of hope for people who like certain kinds of games that are no longer being made. Imagine a game like the original Fallout, it's to big for indie makers working in a garage and it doesn't generate enough sales for large companies. You need a company with a medium founding to pull something like that of and currently kickstarter is the most likely mean to get that kind of founding.
There's some good stuff here. Just from a business perspective, I wanted to say a few things:

I don't think Unemployment Quest succeeded because of the game, it succeeded because of the story around the project. An unemployed guy wants to make a game so that he has something to do. Lot's of people can relate to this and they see it as a creative way of beating unemployment. This could have been a lot of things, not just a game, so I don't really lump it with the rest of the projects.

Those other games definitely succeeded on the game / pitch itself though. The problem with Kickstarter is that there is no accountability and backers have no knowledge. There are no downsides to making unrealistic promises or even producing anything worthwhile at all. You are not beholden to the backers, and when you point this out, a lot of the backers simply don't care because it's such an insignificant amount of money for most of them.

Also, selling a game can actually give it more value than simply giving it away. These Kickstarters are just one example of that. If you are not asking for money, you rule out a whole line of marketing and distribution that might actually end up with your game getting in more hands. Kickstarter is very much a marketing platform.

Something to consider, which sounds extremely obvious, but people who care about money are going to find a way to make some. The reasons for why they need it is always justified in some way by the developer. Conversely, people who don't care about money most likely won't make any. Making money has to be a part of the plan if you hope to get some.

I don't agree with a lot of the projects doing this, but it's up to the "good guys" to use similar tactics to get their own success. A lot of indies only care about the development side of things, but a huge component to success as a developer is caring about the business and financial side, as much as it may suck.
Oblic
Once a member of RMN, always a member of RMN!
1752
First of all, I was shocked to find out (today) that Vacant Sky was going commercial. Shows how much I pay attention, considering I have been subbed to it for well over a year. Second, I was floored to find out that it raised twenty grand! Granted, the few minutes of the game that I actually played seemed pretty sound, but I don't think I'd pay money for it. I was looking forward to an updated version of the game (promised over a year ago, at that point for free), but now I really don't care.

I just watched the trailer, and I completely agree with the shock and awe that people are experiencing. Not with what it shows, but the fact that people actually donated money to this thing! I recently tried to support a project that had to do with a Newgrounds mini series (not trying to promote it, just an anecdote), which was only asking for 30k. I know this is more, but the effort that went into making this thing was INSANE!! Animatronic puppets (I think...), live actors, incredible CGI, etc., etc. ... and the thing FAILED to meet its mark! This... this is kind of a sad "peek" into an above average RM game, whose best feature is the voice acting. And it SUCCEEDS?!

Don't get me wrong, if you can advertise something to a group of people well enough to make a handful of cash, all the power to you. I'm just amazed.

Also, on a mildly related note, the dude that is making VS... is kind of a dick. Although this has little to do with the project itself, it just makes it all the more surprising it got the funding. You would think you would need to be a likable and charismatic person to get the kind of green he was asking for to make this game. I guess this can be summed up with a simple phrase, coming from one of the worlds biggest dicks: "Assholes finish first." - Tucker Max. (If anyone is curious about how this guy is a dick, go through his post history. A great example of his impatient, entitled, arrogant dickatude, read his Forever's End review, if it still exists.)

I do feel a bit bad for putting a project like this down. It's usually nice to see an indie developer succeed when there are so many lame ass games that are now flooding the market. But when such a shoddy job is done showcasing it, the final product barely promises to do anything new or amazing, and the developer is a douche, the bad feeling seems to wash away, leaving only a mildly stale taste of discomfort. Plus, I'm pretty sure the admins won't like this post very much either...

Sorry if it seems like I'm stealing your thunder by piling on, TFT, but I was just as floored as you were to hear about this whole thing.

EDIT: Okay, I was just informed that the original series is still being redone for free, and that this is a new game (a prequel) to said game. My opinion still stands. Actually, in a lot of ways, I'm even more annoyed to find out that it is set in the same setting as something that is already available. There are already way too many prequels and sequels and parallel stories already existing in this world...

A great example of a game maker that could write a great story (albeit short), release it and do it all over again is none other than Lys86. Even though he never finished his most known work "A Blurred Line", he has a handful of other really entertaining games that are all pretty unique.

...now I'm rambling... bottom line, this is nuts.
If there was a like button, I would click it now.
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
Agreed with the entire blog post.

Also of note, I do recall there being some friction between Vacant Sky and RMN a couple years ago. Something about it going commercial which was against RMN's ToS and the page was gonna get yanked. But they weren't going to mention that until right before so they could keep building up userbase.
Ciel
an aristocrat of rpgmaker culture
243
looks like everyone is coming over to the old SHMuP ELITISM side now that the horror of art criminals has been demonstrated with staggering clarity ????? not to bring up ancient cyberconflicts but that is just kind of awe inspiring to me that anyone here is agreeing with this post because it speaks to many of the very same anti-bad principles stated here in the past, a stance to which there was violent, vigorous opposition. is this like when the hero and his rival team up to battle the greater threat?? sonic an d knuckles united at last
just seems like common sense and the fact that RMN isn't always the same people with the same attitudes...
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
who will save the games?

god, i am so tired...
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