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vacant sky's failure and the trends of selling rtp to stupid humans

  • TFT
  • 06/25/2012 02:34 PM
  • 38499 views
vacant sky awakening recently tried to "kickstart" it's way to success by generating 20k from people via crowdfunding. "reinventing" classical rpgs. a very bold thing to say, almost as bold as penny arcade's rain precipice for darkness saying in a lot of way's saying their game is visually "superior" than snes rpgs. first of all, fuck you dude, please do not make these ridiculous statements, especially when penny arcade is throwing the least amount of money to create


ff6 edits: check
grandia battle system: check
hand drawn images not blending with pixels: check

i totally agree. it is vastly superior than:


-bird-

reinventing rpgs. with the crowdfunding goal of 20k. is 20k a lot? i would assume it is by any standard. let's take a look at the trailer, and you decide.


so you're treated with a lot of voice acting and then anime images panning across the screen. fair enough, that's not bad at all. i can let the anime slide because that is just, this generations standard for "art". the problem lies when you see actual gameplay. not only do you have charset move up, it's so hollow, so uninspiring that it's just, i couldn't believe this thing is trying to generate 20k. the battle system is unfinished there is absolutely no sneak peak in the trailer at all for the "reinventing" of rpgs. infact, the video software that does the impressive visual effects is more entertaining than the game itself.

i will tell you how much rtp move up generated just by this trailer alone. almost 10k. now, if the set amount is 20k, which is ridiculous, and if the guy who created this game (this is a team effort btw lol wut) does the crowd funding again, and drops it to 10k, you know he's just trying to get any kind of money for whatever reason. someone actually asked what the money would be used for and the reply was deadspace.

where is the reinventing? all i see is a guy trying to slip through the cracks trying to get a ton of fucking money for as little work as possible. i'm going to say this right now, because i truly believe this, and that is i want rm designer to succeed. i want nothing more than to see these amazingly creative people get taken seriously. but when we have guys like this saying you're reinventing rpg's with rtp garbage, and try to sell it commercially you're just apart of the problem.

if you're going to crowdfund. and if you're going to ask for 20k. that's a REALLY big step, and that's a really big deal. and you know what dude, the least you, or anyone else can do is put the fucking effort behind it. get a prototype, make the game on your own, stop using stock resources not even created for your game. it's a joke, man, that you have the melons to actually post a game like that asking for 20k.

you might be thinking, tft, get out baddie, fair enough, but i'm not specifically addressing vacant sky. let's take a look unemployment quest.


generated 10k. and for what? the guy has 10k, okay. he isn't even humanly capable of getting a composer to fit the games musical quality. that should be a red flag right there. this guy is so bad, he didn't even take the time and effort to do anything with the battle set up, yeah, he used the default "everything". why exactly is he being rewarded for this? 10 for a faceset with a weird rape face.

author=ciel
Anyone can produce something resembling an "old school" game in RPG Maker within several seconds. This does not mean they are an "indie" game developer, or capable of a level of design and production worthy of anyone's pledge. Before supporting a project, ascertain that the developer is communicating clear, specific ideas about his design and vision for the game. Vague, tired platitudes about how "classic" or "traditional" it's going to be are not a guarantee of quality. Design philosophy, gameplay specifics, and solid reasoning are things to look for when determining which projects to fund. Use your eyes and brain before throwing money at any kid with a copy of RPG Maker. Quality, skill, and dedication should be evident.

******************

A comment the creator made on this video and deleted:

Dude, why does my game's success make you so upset? If you? use RPG Maker you should be aware that it takes more than 30 seconds to craft something worth playing. And charging $5 for a copy is considerably less than most commercial RPG Maker games. I'm sorry my game upsets you so much. But it's not like I ever said it wasn't made in RPG Maker and the ability to sell RPG Maker games has long been one of the selling points of the program.

--

Even if you say it's RPG Maker, most people aren't aware of what that entails and don't know that the content you are showing already exists in the engine when you click "New Project". They just see something that looks like a "Classic RPG" and can't discern between pre-made content and a genuine effort. Asking for money when you can't even be bothered to change something as simple as the default monster formations is shameful, and presenting it as your own work (for which you expect to be compensated) is insincere. Buyer beware, etc.


unemployment quest guy, fuck you bro. people like you getting carried is the reason vacant sky thinks it can too.

here it comes. the grand daddy of all. holy shit it just might blow your socks off. i'm scared to even write about it, because it's so taboo. echoes of eternia. the mother of all crowdfunding scams when it comes to rpgmaker. where does one even begin? i... i can't. i can't do this to someone who might read this. it's just too painful. i refuse.

since theres no youtube, theres no official website for this i would post the crowdfunding link, but it is just too disgusting. 40k friends. 40k.

http://i.imgur.com/UJjGP.jpg
oh my god, dude, stop hiding your shitty game behind clever wording! now, you're probably saying to yourself. lolujelly bro. sure, why not. let's get that out of the way. i am jealous that people can produce no effort and no work, and get paid like a boss. i'm not jealous of their work though. um, it's just that there is all this weird stuff happening outside the rm community, i feel like this should be broadcasted to you because it feels like rm designers live on another planet sometimes.

even to the moon was a stretch. it was an alright concept, considering it had 0 gameplay. and the fact that it lagged so bad on my brand new computer.

look man, it sounds harsh, but believe me, i love indie games, i love games in general. i love the concept of creation and creativity. the power to do incredible things. i don't have a problem with people who want to toy around and make rtp games and using the resources available to them to make a project. i do have a problem with people who think they should be getting 40k for doing so.

if you're prepared to make that step, put the fucking effort into the game you assholes. i know the circle jerk community gives the illusion that your game is the new final fantasy 6, but it's not dude, there are people in the indie scene doing crazy amazing things while you're still using rtp tiles.

i love indie, i love supporting games. fez was made by 2 people, super meat boy is made by a few people. iconoclasts, let's talk about iconoclasts.


one guy, managed to create amazing music for himself, the most bitchin' graphics, incredible gameplay, and it's a unique experience. this should be the standard, but it's not. games like this should be funded. and it's a tragedy if it isn't.

as long as these games like unemployment quest keep getting successful, it just keeps pushing that idea that rm games are infact shitty, and a joke. there are many games here that i would easily pay 5 bucks to experience. but those games also put to time and the effort to be different and unique, even with the resource restriction, and you can tell the difference in quality.

if you think i'm a dick, don't agree, i'm jelly, etc, ect. fair enough. i respect your opinions, that's totally your right. i wouldn't blame you.

if these rants interest you, there will be plenty more at

http://audiomew.tumblr.com/

Posts

how can we save the games when we cant even save oursel;ves
TFT
WHOA wow wow. two tails? that is a sexy idea...
368
if we could just somehow ban nicob that migh t just....
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
oh, hey, enough!
hey guys ryan here

i just read this blog and i am so sorry i had no idea

i will cease development and refund my backers immediately please let me know if i can do anything else

again sorry about everything

~ ryan 'lesbian' harmon
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
author=Ciel
looks like everyone is coming over to the old SHMuP ELITISM side now that the horror of art criminals has been demonstrated with staggering clarity ????? not to bring up ancient cyberconflicts but that is just kind of awe inspiring to me that anyone here is agreeing with this post because it speaks to many of the very same anti-bad principles stated here in the past, a stance to which there was violent, vigorous opposition. is this like when the hero and his rival team up to battle the greater threat?? sonic an d knuckles united at last

I was always a fan of the shmup voice. Unfortunately when I ran this place, that shit would go over quite poorly. So yeah, I did it for political reasons. Gotta keep that ad revenue flowin' in! Of course, this place never really molded into what I wanted it to be anyway.

It would be great if there was less bullshit as described by TFT. Another of my favorites was this: http://www.blossomsoft.com/?p=180. ALL STAR RM GAME REMADE FOR 3DS, COMING NEVER.
Vacant Sky's failed Kickstarter bid came up briefly in #rpgmaker this morning. I think it failed because it still looks like an RPG Maker game, and by that I mean it kind of lacks its own identity. I didn't realize there were actual RM shovelware games that reached their Kickstarter funding goals (I do not consider Vacant Sky in the RM shovelware tier, mind). So, with that in mind, I am surprised Vacant Sky failed, but I guess $20k is a gamble.
author=Jude
Vacant Sky's failed Kickstarter bid came up briefly in #rpgmaker this morning. I think it failed because it still looks like an RPG Maker game, and by that I mean it kind of lacks its own identity. I didn't realize there were actual RM shovelware games that reached their Kickstarter funding goals (I do not consider Vacant Sky in the RM shovelware tier, mind). So, with that in mind, I am surprised Vacant Sky failed, but I guess $20k is a gamble.


Well there are a few that just went under the radar, successes.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1875882614/tentativly-titled-whispers-of-eternity?ref=live

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gentlemenstudios/rain-0?ref=live
author=Ciel
looks like everyone is coming over to the old SHMuP ELITISM side now that the horror of art criminals has been demonstrated with staggering clarity ????? not to bring up ancient cyberconflicts but that is just kind of awe inspiring to me that anyone here is agreeing with this post because it speaks to many of the very same anti-bad principles stated here in the past, a stance to which there was violent, vigorous opposition. is this like when the hero and his rival team up to battle the greater threat?? sonic an d knuckles united at last

I've always agreed with your ideas (generally speaking) but not with the way you chose to represent them, and I'm sure others feel the same way. Now, while I don't really mind the occasional jab, when you can't even write a single paragraph without a mocking tone, things get old really fast. And it just happens that none of your old antics are in recent memory this time... That being said, I really wish you guys would take your time to give good honest criticism instead of acting like the mean cheerleader squad all the time.

Not that you really wanted to know any of this, though. =9

Also, lol at "art criminals". ;D
author=DE
Custom menus are that personal touch now? What about, I don't know, AN ORIGINAL STORY? Non-cliched, non-idiot characters?


Yes. I think if you are using something that isn't the default you are customising. That gives a personal touch rather than the default touch.

No. Original story is not customisation. An original story is pretty much necessary for a good RPG game but it is not a custom feature, it's the story of the game.

We are talking about the same thing but you seem to have a different understanding of terms to me.

I completely agree that if someone wants to crowd fund an RPG it should have an original story. Major studios churn out RPGs with the same story and get away with it because of fancy graphics or new mechanics but if you're on kick started with an RPG it SHOULD be because you have some monumentally new narrative to show the world.

I was just saying that if you are SELLING your game you should have made a lot of content yourself and not just used RTP. That is pretty lazy.
TFT, I have to say I disagree with this.

Yes, to you and me, this game isn't worth our money, and we aren't going to support it. However, this doesn't mean they can't ask for people to support them, or other people shouldn't support them.

We come from a different background from people who support these projects. We don't like RTP and think it lacks originality because we've seen it so much that we are sick of it. However, just because one use free resources doesn't mean that one can't ask for monetary support. A game isn't just about resources or story or features, but it's how everything is put together. Like other creative content, its value is very subjective, and that's where crowd-funding comes. You can pay whatever you feel like! You chose $0, obviously, but others disagree and chose something else.

From what I've seen, they are transparent about what they do. They tell people about the engine they're using. They tell people that they use free resources.(Also, it is not stealing. Stealing would mean the original file is gone. :) ) People tolerate this differently and some people just don't care and like the idea and the presentation enough to support them.

You might have a problem with them setting their funding goal too high in your opinion, but you must not forget that if they can't reach the goal, they won't get anything. This leaves audience to be the judge, not just you or me. And if they reach their ridiculously high goal, then that means they have found their audience ( I am not talking about the case of deceiving or tricking people into funding a project here. That's another story.) All the backers can also see the current amount of money the project has accumulated. So nobody force them to overfund the project.

To me, this is not a bad sign. This is a good sign! Whatever you make, if you can find audience, you can make money. Seriously, people who fund these game aren't likely to fund games that you like, and people who fund games you like, aren't going to fund these games. There's enough audience and money to go around.

I hope this encourage people who always think your game doesn't deserve money to step out and ask for help or some kind of funding. You might be surprised at how many people want to see you succeed in what you're trying to do.
I never said it was stealing or even deceitful. I did say it was lazy to charge money for something you've made with the RTP and that if they are charging for an rpg maker game it should be something they've spent a lot of time customising and making it unique.

Really if they can make that much money for an rpg maker game then they should do it.

But if anyone can make money doing any standard of rpg maker game, with little effort put into designing things for themselves then it's just going to be lazy and cheep.

I'm not picking on their game because I haven played it. The blog mentions a guy using a story and title from another game though and making most of his game from RTP, which is pretty damn lazy. I'd prefer a funded rpg maker game to be a groundbreaking story with visuals and audio that is entirely generated by the maker...then it would have earned it's place as the one you pay for.

EDIT: What does TFT mean?
author=Marcus
I never said it was stealing or even deceitful. I did say it was lazy to charge money for something you've made with the RTP and that if they are charging for an rpg maker game it should be something they've spent a lot of time customising and making it unique.

Really if they can make that much money for an rpg maker game then they should do it.

But if anyone can make money doing any standard of rpg maker game, with little effort put into designing things for themselves then it's just going to be lazy and cheep.

I'm not picking on their game because I haven played it. The blog mentions a guy using a story and title from another game though and making most of his game from RTP, which is pretty damn lazy. I'd prefer a funded rpg maker game to be a groundbreaking story with visuals and audio that is entirely generated by the maker...then it would have earned it's place as the one you pay for.
Maybe it wasn't clear, but my previous post was a reply to the whole article and not any comments in here in particular.

Regardless, being diligent or lazy has nothing to do with whether you'll make money or not. As I said, different people have different requirements to support a game. I don't see a point of arguing over 'your requirements are different from mine'.

Yes, anyone can make money doing standard rpg maker game. However, let's think about that situation for a second. What if there are many projects that use RTP pop up and ask for funding? There will be competitions, if the audience overlap. And competition means you have to raise your quality. Currently, it's possible because there is no competition. That's why I want more people to go out and ask for funding or do something.

TFT is the name of the author of this article ^ ^;
TFT = Twin Fox Tails

Also, if this article is evil ( I personally think its a world of good), then it is an evil of utmost necessity.

Ciel
an aristocrat of rpgmaker culture
243
author=hima
Regardless, being diligent or lazy has nothing to do with whether you'll make money or not.

That's something profoundly sad and needs to be changed. For it to be changed it is necessary to speak out when individuals completely lacking in virtue are disproportionately rewarded.

Never underestimate the general public's ignorance. While these 'developers' who receive incredible sums of money by clicking New Project and uploading screenshots four minutes later openly state that they are using RPG Maker, many of their patrons don't know what that entails. They don't know what RTP is, or what the engine is. They just see a classic RPG woah and immediately raid dad's wallet. After the video demonstrating exactly how the content in Unemployment Quest was 'produced', the general opinion on the game's official trailer seemed to shift drastically.

What these people are doing feels disingenuous to me. It's awful and lazy and TFT was more than right to speak out against it. Some people might like to drop several grand on a project created in five minutes, and I guess that's a 'valid' piece of the game consumer market. But there's another side that demands more, and that part of the market has to make its voice heard too if quality content is ever going to be produced.
I agree with Hima that a lot more people should be looking for ways to fund their projects -- to compete with these projects and find support -- but I don't agree that projects like Echoes of Eternia are a good thing when talking about Kickstarter.

In a scenario where more people are asking for funding, projects like EoE will win backers over because they promise ridiculous features like 30+ hours of gameplay, voice acting, high quality art, complex battle systems, and anything else that will get people to back it. Ask yourself, what are these backers going to think if the game never comes out or doesn't meet any where near it's sky high expectations? At the very least, I can't imagine it will inspire them to back more projects, especially ones with realistic goals and budgets. This doesn't help more legitimate developers at all.

That's because on Kickstarter you are selling an idea, not a game. Can any indie developer really promise what EoE wants to be? They are essentially promising a PS1 era RPG made by a team of people who have never made games before. There are no downsides to promising the world to backers, and it's been proven to work time and time again.
author=Emirpoen
TFT = Twin Fox Tails

Also, if this article is evil ( I personally think its a world of good), then it is an evil of utmost necessity.

I don't think this article is evil, more like missing the points. Other than what I've said already in the previous post, I'd like to point out some problems I have with this rant.

1.) Using RPG Maker/or not putting 'enough' effort into making a game
I think Sophie answer this better than I do. http://www.sophiehoulden.com/stop-being-such-an-asshole-to-people-who-dont-start-from-scratch/

2.) Using free resources = steal others people work = game is automatically shitty
This is not true at all. Using free resources is not 'stealing'. It's freely available and if it gets the job done, why not? Just because someone's using free assets doesn't mean there is no effort involve in putting them together into a game. Whether this worth somebody's money or not is, again, subjective.

3.) Letting player designing quests/character = Make games for me.
That's one way to look at it, but you're missing a more important point here. It's personalization. This is what cannot be copied and people are willing to pay for. People value something that feels personal to them. To ditch it off as 'working for the developer' is missing a great opportunity here.

It isn't just them that are doing this. If you look at other big games or higher quality games in Kick Starter project, you'll see that there are projects that offer something similar. Have you heard of a Flash game called "I Wish I Were the Moon"? The creator let you replace characters in the game with your characters for $2,000! Of course, to some people, this is insane. Yet, somebody bought it. Apparently, it's worth it in that person's opinion.

As for the part about giving $5 to some games in here, I totally agree. Actually, it would be nice if RMN provides a donation button or something for each project or each developer. It could link to their paypal account or whatever. I'm pretty sure there are people who want to donate, but never thought about it if they aren't reminded.

author=Ciel
author=hima
Regardless, being diligent or lazy has nothing to do with whether you'll make money or not.
That's something profoundly sad and needs to be changed. For it to be changed it is necessary to speak out when individuals completely lacking in virtue are disproportionately rewarded.

Never underestimate the general public's ignorance. While these 'developers' who receive incredible sums of money by clicking New Project and uploading screenshots four minutes later openly state that they are using RPG Maker, many of their patrons don't know what that entails. They don't know what RTP is, or what the engine is. They just see a classic RPG woah and immediately raid dad's wallet. After the video demonstrating exactly how the content in Unemployment Quest was 'produced', the general opinion on the game's official trailer seemed to shift drastically.

What these people are doing feels disingenuous to me. It's awful and lazy and TFT was more than right to speak out against it. Some people might like to drop several grand on a project created in five minutes, and I guess that's a 'valid' piece of the game consumer market. But there's another side that demands more, and that part of the market has to make its voice heard too if quality content is ever going to be produced.
I think this is the same scenario as Aveyond. When it came out, people were complaining about how it was using RTP and it shouldn't charge money. Turns out one of my friends who know a lot about RM still enjoy it regardless of its use of RTP. She love it so much that she wrote a walkthrough in Thai! It's true that you shouldn't underestimate general public's ignorance, but we shouldn't overestimate it either.

Secondly, I think you give monetary reward too much credit here. People create high quality games even without monetary reward! Cave Story, Spelunky, Last Scenario, Alter A.I.L.A, Princess Princess, Heartache, Clock of Atonement, ... the list goes on and on.

There are many people here that created quality games without charging or even asking for money. I would love to reward many people here with money, but you'd notice that they never ask for it. Most people here don't even show you a way to support them with money. Somehow, getting money from what they've created become a bad thing or never cross their mind. If you want monetary reward, then make it easy for people to help you or reward you. These guys in the article did, and that's what they got.

Getting paid from what you do isn't a bad thing. And even if your games are free, it doesn't mean someone can't show you how much they love your game with monetary reward. We need to stop thinking that getting money from our game is evil or we don't deserve the money. People pay because they like what you're doing.

Also, it seems like there are people who enjoy Unemployment Quest : http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/412101570/unemployment-quest-a-non-epic-rpg/comments

author=GZ
I agree with Hima that a lot more people should be looking for ways to fund their projects -- to compete with these projects and find support -- but I don't agree that projects like Echoes of Eternia are a good thing when talking about Kickstarter.

In a scenario where more people are asking for funding, projects like EoE will win backers over because they promise ridiculous features like 30+ hours of gameplay, voice acting, high quality art, complex battle systems, and anything else that will get people to back it. Ask yourself, what are these backers going to think if the game never comes out or doesn't meet any where near it's sky high expectations? At the very least, I can't imagine it will inspire them to back more projects, especially ones with realistic goals and budgets. This doesn't help more legitimate developers at all.

That's because on Kickstarter you are selling an idea, not a game. Can any indie developer really promise what EoE wants to be? They are essentially promising a PS1 era RPG made by a team of people who have never made games before. There are no downsides to promising the world to backers, and it's been proven to work time and time again.
I agree that not finishing a project after it gets its funding is a terrible thing. Unfortunately, this happens more often in non-epic rm games, from what I've seen.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/keric/cracked-a-puzzle-adventure-game-for-touchscreen-de/comments
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thesingularity/freeq-an-interactive-radio-drama-indie-video-game
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rinkuhero/saturated-dreamers-igf-fee-and-misceallenous-deve-0
The first two games are already abandoned, regardless of how much customizations or progress they've shown. Saturated Dreamers is still in progress.

I agree though, that if a project is abandoned after it gets its fund, it will only be bad for Kickstarter. Still, there is nothing you can do right now. It's up to the backers to study and do some research on the creator before they invest in the project.

Currently, this doesn't seem to be a problem with Kickstarter. You'll see that there are many projects get its fund, so the ratio of complete/fail project must still be in the acceptable range.

This point reminds me another problem with this article. It lumps EoE into the same category as Unemployment Quest, which is a finished product. If you are going to talk about an ambitious project getting money from backer and never plan to finish it, that is fine and I agree that this is a bad thing. I can't say anything regarding this point right now because I don't know the creator and their previous works well enough to make any judgement.

Also, I think it would be fair if you stated the money these projects asked and their statuses.
1.) Vacant Sky : Asked 20k, Got 10k, failed.
2.) Unemployment Quest : Asked 1k, Got 10k, succeeded.
3.) EoE : Asked 10k, Got 40k, succeeded.

One failed. One didn't ask that much and luckily got overfunded. Only one project that is questionable. This doesn't seem to represent a strong case. Look at other game projects in Kickstarter, you will see various non RPGMaker got funded as well.
To summarized my wall of text
- I agree that good, finished, high quality game should be monetary rewarded.
- For this to happen, creators need to help make it easy for supporter to support. Help us to help you.
- Everyone has a right to try to make money. In my opinion, this article wants to take away this right from these developers solely because
1.) They use RPGMaker.
2.) It doesn't take them 'enough' effort.

Should the article/rant focus more on unrealistic rpgmaker projects trying to scam people for money, I might have a different opinion on this.
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
if people want to give me money, PM me and I will send you my paypal email.

on a more serious note, it just doesn't feel right for me to ask for donations or any sort of monetary compensation for the serious games I have made because, while I did do an awful lot of work to make the game, I use a mix of RTP, FF rips with minor edits and midi music I found out there on the internets. If I were to look for donations/Kickstarter for one of my projects, i would remake it and use either resources I made or contracted out for from the talented people here that I know. Otherwise it would just feel...I don't know...hollow.

send me money pls
@Hima

I'll tell you where TFT is right and wrong. He's right in saying that Kickstarter group of pledgers are just unaware, Ciel mentioned they just don't know of what's out there. Some are informed about RM and the niche communites it has and how things work. Others kind of understand but still pledge because they like an concept, or just the person / presentation of a game and advertisement. Some even like the idea of getting a chance to contribute to a game, their ideas at a price they are willing to pay.

As the people who create games and submit them to crowd source funding sites, it is imperative that your intentions isn't to gouge what is essentially an honor system, people pledge and hope for the best!

Some argue if people are willing to pay then there's a target audience. This is fundamentally wrong, yes it's true in some sense but you have understand that it is EASY to mislead people. This is what marketing does, it alters human perception, we see things in different hues of light and in a lot of cases? It clouds our judgement. Yes, it's just a fact people buy shit all the time they weren't even interested in or they couldn't tell it wasn't for them from the start.

To show the bigger picture which is the intention of some guys here or whatever is not wrong, I think it's the right thing to do.

However, I'll tell you where TFT is wrong. Passing his opinion off as fact. The other side of the fence is that Kickstarter exists to fund ideas or projects. What people do with their project or submit is there own thing.

That is the intention, if you have an idea or concept then it is NOT wrong to submit your advertisement, no matter how bad it is. Why? Because that is what the site is for to fund ideas and to fund projects. Do you notice that backers are the only one able to drop comments (on kickstarter at least)? Because your opinion doesn't matter. The only people opinion that matter are those who pledge. That is how the site works.

I personally think that games like Echoes receiving that much cash for what is essentially his FIRST game, is really bad. There is no real screening unfortunately at KS. That is just the fact of the matter.

The only thing we can do is encourage people to put some effort behind there game and do not purposely try to gouge the pockets of the average joes out there. Commercial game companies ALREADY do this. It's a disgusting act and I'm tired of the pursuit of money ruining everything I love.

With that said, if you truly wish to submit something to crowd funding sites, then ask for the amount you really need. An rtp game does NOT need 20k. If you're creating a game using free resources and need a soundtrack or some custom art, get the quotes first and establish contact with your artist and then work out a plan. Pay for your assets yourself, at least initially to show the crowd funding backers. You'll also have an idea of the value of your game is.

No one cares if you use rtp or free resources, people CARE when you use it and then ask for tons and tons of money. If you get over funded, then you should probably use the rest of the money to replace your free resources, make sense right? Point being crowd funding should not be thought of as a golden ticket, if you want money then you should willing to invest in your own ideas with either time or money to pay for initial art to show off your vision.
Everybody is free to do they want. If some people want 20k even if they don't need 20k then it is okay. If other people want to pay it then it is their problem. Or not if they are happy with it because they think it is a good thing to pay the money.

If you say they are not informed about better games out there...
that might be true. I know a lot of better games that don't even ask for donations and I would not pay money for the games mentioned in this blog article.

But this blog article surely won't help the people that are paying. If they are not that well informed they probably are not going to read this because they don't spend much time on rpg maker stuff(if they did they were informed and would not need this blog article).

This blog article is only whining and jealousy because nobody is paying you money. You should just shut the fuck up and make your own games. And try to make better games first before complaining about the others. Whining about others always means that you are not able to produce anything worthy.


Oblic mentioned Sailerius' review of Forever's End. And yes, I liked Forever's End. Because of the story and gameplay. But I liked Vacant Sky too. More because of the story than of the gameplay. I did not agree with Sailerius' review on Forever's End. I hated it a bit but I still liked Vacant Sky because I'm not going around saying "omg he dislikes one of my favourite games now everything he makes is shit, now I have to hate Vacant Sky". And the same is with this blog which is against him. I can't say no "omg cool I agree with everything against him because he disliked one of my favourite games". I think such blog articles are only trying to create hate. We don't need this. And we don't need reviews like the one from Sailerius' on Forever's end. Same thing.

And about story: Story can be something you would pay for if you like it. Even if the graphics are shit or it didn't need much work to make them. To make a good story it will need hours of work too and he could use that hours to work somewhere else else for money. Read about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost ... surely probably 20k is still too much if he were unemployed and you only consider this cost. Would take a lot of months where he worked full time on the game(but he probably is not working full time). But who cares. Not my money. I am not paying anything. Ha ha.