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Badasses for Hire

I love Tactics RPGs. One of my favorite games of all time is Final Fantasy Tactics, which I suspect this game drew some inspiration from. There is a difference though. To Arms is not a tactics RPG. One such reason is it is a traditional RPG, with a large party and an elaborate class system, but traditional nonetheless. The elements that make for a true tactical RPG, moving units, terrain, range, position, and other factors that make tactics RPGs different form other games are not present here.

Another reason is “Tactics” play little role in this game compared to luck. Allow me to explain.

To Arms finds you in the role of Janos Blackthorne, the honorable if somewhat ill-tempered captain of the guards to Duke Mandon Lychester of Rydony. Together with his brother Horace, the court mage, Janos is sent to dispatch an incursion of goblins who threaten the Duchy’s borders. However, they are unaware that while they are away, a sinister political plot is about to unfold. Chapter one of To Arms recounts the tale of how the Blackthrone Brothers fell from grace and became the leaders of Blackthorne Company, a group of mercenaries, in hopes of one day using their military might to restore their honor.

Balance 2/5
This game has an interesting approach to combat, but it is held back by some severe balancing problems.

You start the game with the Blackthorne brothers and three generic recruits (for some reason your badass captain and court wizard are the same level as three random squires, but whatever.) You are given a chance to outfit yourself before your mission, buying items and equipment to properly arm yourself. You can be somewhat creative with your equipment options, but for the first few battles there isn’t much to do but attack. Eventually your team is joined by a paladin and his squire, and the option to change classes opens up. Each class has its own equipment options and a tree of skills available to them, which can be purchased with job points earned in battle much like experience. Deciding to branch out and cover a range of classes, I picked a pikeman, a knight, an archer, and a war priest. My team was now varied with a variety of offense and defense while maintaining a safe level of available healing. We were ready to kick some goblin ass.

Armed and dangerous.



As mentioned, you command your entire army in battle at once. For most of the game, this is seven men, and you’re often up against similar numbers of enemies. This means combat can get very intense very quickly, but it can be fun to watch your entire team attack in a sequence, or for Janos to give orders (party buffs) and watch your entire team power-up. But this also leads to a lot of problems. Namely, it is very hard to keep track of exactly what is going on in combat. Enemies hit hard. Many hit more than once. As mentioned, there are often many enemies. If the enemy party gangs up on one or two characters they can be demolished quickly. You’ll often find yourself just taking scores and scores of hits with very little you can do about it. A few classes have status moves such as stun that can hamper enemies, but for the most part there are few ways to really control damage. Another problem is skills have a fairly high cost and it was hard to learn more than one skill per character over the course of demo, especially for the generics. My knight character learned a move that supposedly increased his threat, but it was hard to tell if this was actually doing anything. Enemies also have a lot of HP so even having your entire team gang up on a target doesn’t mean it is going to die. Notably though, there is almost no way to control individual turn order. One of the most critical elements of a tactics game, being able to react to threats or actions in real time by deciding what to do, is lost in the massive jumble of turns. This could be mitigated somewhat by assigning priority to some moves. Healing, for example, should probably have a very high priority. When you’re going to take upwards of fifteen attacks in the next round, you need to be able to heal immediately.

Overall, however, enemies suffer simply from poor balancing. One sequence had the Blackthorne Brothers fighting on their own against squads of enemies. Without allies for support, Horace, my battle mage, was quickly cut down by enemies that were clearly balanced to fight against my seven man army. A single critical hit could bring him down and there was nothing to be done about any of this, and there’s no way to grind in this game to get stronger. All you can do is buy piles of healing items and hope the RNG favors you. The abject unfairness and reliance on luck of this sequence wreaked havoc on this section's score.

But this isn’t the worst part. The worst part is the outrageously high dodge rate of enemies. Late in the demo, enemies dodged far more than any game I have ever seen. Not just some enemies either, but most of them. It was not uncommon for my seven man band to attack and for five of them to miss. You might remember I had a similar complaint in Blood Machine, but this is even worse! I was not missing because my men were blind, and I don’t feel like I was using the wrong types of attacks on them because they readily dodged magic spells as well as physical skills and regular attacks. And I felt like I had a pretty well-balanced party set-up so I don’t feel like my choice in character classes would account for a 70% miss rate. Basically, all I could do was issue orders and pray. There was nothing else I could do! I was completely at the mercy of the dice gods. This isn’t challenge. This isn’t difficulty. This isn’t balanced. This isn’t fair.

The evasion rates of enemies need to be seriously curtailed. It just isn’t fun to start losing a battle because your men can’t land a hit for the life of them. Meanwhile, my enemies rarely had such issues on their own and landed scores of hits on my hapless soldiers. There was only one way to settle this. Janos had access to a party buff that dramatically raised everyone’s agility. By unleashing this power, I was presented with the bizarre scenario in which neither side was able to land a hit. This went on for a while before sheer willpower, brute force, and loads of healing items finally tilted things in my favor. But this did not leave a feeling of elation at my victory. It simply felt sour. The player should feel in control of his or her destiny, not have to rely on sheer luck. I never felt in control. Many rounds went by where all I could do was watch as all my attacks missed while my men got spanked because of some fluke of the dice. Missing an attack is like losing a turn. If I miss there should be a reason, like I was blind or the enemy was flying or was under the influence of an evasion buff. I shouldn't be missing en masse for no reason.

The game tries to play this off as “high difficulty,” and suggests you save often in case you get stuck. (I never got stuck, for the record.) But in reality, this is classic fake difficulty. Your party can get savagely cut up for several rounds for things you have no control over. The game’s “Tips’ section even has the nerve to suggest that it is the player’s job to keep multiple saves and be willing to completely tailor my party to the upcoming battles in order to win certain fights, but as a player, this response doesn’t satisfy me. Don’t expect the player do extra work because you can’t balance your game, and don’t tell the player they’re playing it wrong if the army they built is statistically incapable of winning a battle. How about letting me make the party I want? As a general rule for any game with class systems or customizable parties, you should always be able to win with the party you have, and shouldn’t ever need to have psychically deduced exactly what equipment or skills you would need to win the up-coming battles. Setting up characters to specifically exploit enemy weaknesses should be helpful, but never necessary. Especially since you generally have only a vague idea of what enemies are capable of so, you really can’t prepare before a mission, and once you’re in the heat of battle, there’s no turning back. What I think I would suggest is, where applicable, have some character give some idea what enemies on your next mission are likely to fight like. Are goblins high strength brutes? Would bringing extra heavy armor classes help? Or are they all fast as hell and I need fast people who can actually hit them? Are they vulnerable to magic? Invulnerable? These are things to think about that might actually incorporate some level of strategy and planning into the game. I wouldn’t suggest ever making it necessary to completely rearrange your party, but if you know what’s coming you can make small adjustments. Unless I have made a hopelessly oblivious team formation of all unarmed healers, the answer to a broken, unbalanced battle isn’t to tell the player “you did it wrong.”

Unless you’re a Rogue-like.

All in all I feel like this system has merit, it is just held back by bad balance/design decisions. I do have concerns about the number of characters, however. I felt like keeping track of 7 characters during battle was challenging enough, but throwing 15 into a turn-based encounter system just sounds like trouble. I would suggest limiting the number to a more manageable 8 or so.

Level Design 2.5/5:
This game does not use traditional town/dungeon mechanics. In town you simply visit shops to buy equipment, and then its off on your mission. Once you begin a mission, there is no way out save victory, so make sure to prepare.

Dungeons (using the term loosely) forego exploration for the most part, instead focusing entirely on the encounters. Each battle is unique and occurs in a specific sequence, and generally you’ll need to clear out all the enemies to accomplish your goals. Occasionally, you’ll be given the choice of what order to defeat certain groups of enemy in, or occasionally seek out some optional side area with some extra items, but for the most part it’s fairly linear.

One thing that bothered me was a lack of items to be found, even in areas where there logically would be or are specifically stated to be (a storeroom in an enemy fort offered nothing in the way to be looted, for instance.) The entire first mission went by without a single treasure chest to be seen, which gives little incentive to go exploring. Moreover, the player has no idea going into this situation how much is an appropriate number of items to bring. I bought ten healing salves, what seemed like a reasonable number to me, but I went through these quite quickly and the only way to get more was to hope enemies dropped them. I would suggest making some healing items available to be found in areas so that the player is less easily screwed if they have a hard time with a battle. This is really early in the game after all, this is the time to wean the player into the game and give them a chance to experiment and learn from mistakes, not punish them right out of the gate for failing to make perfect choices. You have the entire rest of the game to make brutal.

Another problem I had was once you’re on a mission, it’s live or die time. There’s no way to retreat from a mission if you find yourself in a bad situation. Not only is this annoying for the player but it’s not tactically sound from the characters’ perspective either. No sane commander is going to charge into a situation he’s totally unprepared for. I would suggest either giving an option to retreat, which either obliges the player to restart the entire mission and reset all the encounters, or perhaps in some cases force the player to eat the failure and forfeit any payment they might have acquired. This isn’t going to be applicable to every single mission but it is something to think about, and is almost certainly preferable to locking the player into an unwinnable situation.

Finally, the uniquely scripted nature of every single encounter give this game a fairly rare opportunity. I was somewhat disappointed to find that my soldiers simply walked into every single combat situation with no thought to tactics. In the future, I would give a forward thinking player some options in situations like this. Set traps, lay ambushes, anything to let the player gain an upper hand in combat. It’s more rewarding to just completely crush an enemy force because you were more clever than them then trade blows with them for twenty turns. If you want this to be a tactics game, let the player apply tactics.

Characters 3/5
Most of the characterization in this demo revolves around the Blackthorne Brothers. The most immediate and obvious characteristic of your protagonist, Janos, is that he is not the typical implausibly talented twenty year old white-haired pretty boy. He is a grizzled veteran who appears to be at least in his forties, a real soldier with years of real experience behind him. He serves as both a sympathetic and effective protagonist, a knight in service of his liege lord, bond by oaths of honor and friendship. His brother, Horace, provides badly needed comic relief; an element often missing from Max’s other games. I liked both of these characters a lot. They had a lot of chemistry and acted like, well, brothers. One thing I thought was odd, though, was that your badass captain of the guard starts at the same level as his recruits. I see no reason why he and the other “main” characters couldn’t start off with a higher experience level and a small pool of job points to spend to reflect their experience over their band of squires. This probably wouldn’t even disrupt the balance horribly, since having one or two higher level characters isn’t going to be a deal breaker in these types of combat situations; if anything it evens the score when you face enemy leaders who are themselves demigods compared to their men.

Most of the other characters received only scant attention. Though the demo contains a handful of minor villains, most aren’t given the chance to do anything but stand around and act fiendish. Lady Bethany, the only important female character to appear, is portrayed in a manner that borders on misogynistic. I can forgive some of this as being one of the realities of the setting, but I couldn’t help but think this would come off better if the writing were more subtle about it.

The dialogue is really quite decent and makes at least a good faith effort to adapt to the setting, a sort of pseudo-old English style that manages to stay understandable but at least give the world some depth. The writing is occasionally marred by Max’s patented “plethora of obscenities” that often not only sound forced and completely out of character for the people saying them, but are out of character for the game’s universe. Did you really need to break your campaign setting’s own rules to let yourself use the f-word? Consider excising these and finding more colorful in-period euphemisms. I assure you they’re out there and some of them are quite fun. They’ll sound better and more natural. This use of profanity does not make things darker and it does not make the characters seem more mature. It makes them seem like grade school students trying desperately to be outrageous.

Story 3/5
The game appears to be set in a fairly expansive fantasy world of political intrigue. It clearly borrows a great deal from Final Fantasy Tactics in regard to its systems and perhaps its world as well, but the mood and tone of the series seems to be inspired more by George R. R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series. If you liked either of these, there might be something here for you.

The main plot of the game appears to be centered on the Blackthorne Brothers and the missions they undertake, but behind the scenes is a web of deception and betrayal amongst the nobility and their power schemes, though this demo offers but a taste. It is hard to say at this point exactly how developed the world is, though the provincial system of the world map did leave me with questions. Are these provinces allied with each other? Do they in-fight? What other races are there and do they all hate each other? These are things to think about.

Music and Sound: Coming soon!
The music used in this demo is all appropriate and well-used (aside from an odd lyrical selection played during the credits) and I felt like the sound effects were relevant, but from my understanding, this project will soon have a number of custom musical tracks incorporated into the game. I always think custom music is a plus and will check out this sound track when it is released and update this review to reflect it.

Overall 2.5/5
I find myself feeling very much the same way about this project as I did about Wanderer. I feel it is a decent concept plagued by bad design decisions. This is an early demo and its state reflects this; it is still rough and unpolished. there were parts of this game I enjoyed, but they were undermined by the parts I thought were severely broken. However, if you clean up the combat problems (seriously just lowering their evasion alone would probably make this a 3) and consider implementing some of the other ideas I mentioned, and you could have a winner here.

Posts

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Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
This is not an early demo at all, it is in fact all-but a finished release. It has gone through more playtesting than most games see development time with almost ten different testers involved at some stage or another, all-told.

In general, it seems you just can't take my assertion that your game experience will be enormously dependent upon your party combination in good faith. As an exercise, I would like you to try the game with a few different parties and see if you still feel victim to dice luck or if you feel like a tactical master exercising your options to the utmost to decimate enemy ranks. One thing you said that was incomprehensible to me was that you only racked up enough JP to teach each character one skill. I don't think that's even possible.

. A single critical hit could bring him down and there was nothing to be done about any of this, and there's no way to grind in this game to get stronger. All you can do is buy piles of healing items and hope the RNG favors you. The abject unfairness and reliance on luck of this sequence wreaked havoc on this section's score.

You should retry this same section with (and this is far from the only way to win easily) "Hold The Line", "Bull Rush" and "Lightning Bolt" and see if you still feel this way.

As a general rule for any game with class systems or customizable parties, you should always be able to win with the party you have, and shouldn't ever need to have psychically deduced exactly what equipment or skills you would need to win the up-coming battles.

This is the opposite of the case in Final Fantasy Tactics. I'm not saying whether it's good or bad, but it's just the opposite of the case.

On an unrelated note: Bethany is, in some ways, a sympathetic character. When you consider that she was wed to the twenty-nine year old Mandon in an arranged marriage on the day she turned thirteen some of her actions become almost understandable. I tried to make a point of not demonizing her without sugar coating what she did.
well, to anyone debating whether or not this is a tactics RPG, dude who cares. Something as menial as such a debate shouldnt phase anyone the least (well, at least thats how i feel anyways) Just play the game! Im liking it so far.
And its also kinda unfair to review a game having not gone the entire games every little nuance (in other words, playing the game till you KNOW its every weak/strong points) as is the case with the certain "level of unfairness" mentioned in the review. Having said that, im not one to tell people what to do.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
In general, it seems you just can't take my assertion that your game experience will be enormously dependent upon your party combination in good faith.

It's not that I don't take it in good faith, it's that I think its a poor design choice. Pretty much everyone agrees that Riovanes Castle is the worst part of FFT. It is possible to save the game an inescapable position before the infamous duel with Wiegraf. If your Ramza isn't up to par, (Or you're not a pisces like I am =P) there's nothing you can do. You can't undo Ramza's job growth up to this point, and you can't leave this place to go grind and get him ready for the fight. There are some ridiculously specific strategies devised for this fight, but you'd need to have perfect foreknowledge to enact any of those strategies beforehand.

Right after that fight, you have to save Rafa on the roof. But with some combination of classes, its possible Rafa will be killed before any of your characters can even take any action to save her. Hope you have a thief or a ninja in your party, or (insert ridiculously convoluted, highly specific class combination here) or have fun starting over! This isn't early in the game either, this is probably at least twelve hours in. People hated this. Yet that's what you seem to be tailoring this game into. I am trying to warn you that this is a problem. Your expectation that players will play through this game, encounter a situation requiring specific strategies after a series of battles with no option to correct their mistakes, and that they will not get frustrated by this design but will instead obligingly reload an earlier save (which might need to be hours back before they can accumulate enough job points to properly reorganize) is asking an awful lot of the player.

You should retry this same section with (and this is far from the only way to win easily) "Hold The Line", "Bull Rush" and "Lightning Bolt" and see if you still feel this way.

Should it really be necessary for the player to need this specific a skill set to have that part not be frustrating? I mean, this is really pretty early in the game ,the player is still learning how things work and experimenting, and possibly has invested skill points elsewhere in skills less useful for this section. This is only the second dungeon, it's a pretty harsh position to throw the player into so early, especially since they're entering an area they were under the impression was friendly and was not going to be a dungeon.

for the record, I used Flame Burst and Janos' "Keep Moving" skill to clear this area, and still found it frustrating because there was no way to protect Horace. Also, if an alchemist uses a chemical bomb, you're looking at two hits of 200+ damage each and possible blindness. Knights can also deal critical hits on Horace for around 400 hp. Horace has a little over 400 HP at this point. Keeping him alive is pretty luck-based, except perhaps with this very specific skill set you suggested that not every player is going to have.


As a general rule for any game with class systems or customizable parties, you should always be able to win with the party you have, and shouldn't ever need to have psychically deduced exactly what equipment or skills you would need to win the up-coming battles.

This is the opposite of the case in Final Fantasy Tactics. I'm not saying whether it's good or bad, but it's just the opposite of the case.

Aside from the aforementioned scenario featuring Rafa the lemming, which I already cited as a bad design choice that most players hate, I never had to do this.

This is one of the least true statements I have ever read in a review. Although I agree that the game shouldn't be so hard that you need a 100% correct choice to get through, I believe that a game should not be so easy that your class-choices have little-to-no effect on your probability on getting through the game.

For instance, if I played through a game with four Berserkers and had a tough time against physical-immune enemies as a result then that would be my fault, not the developer's.

(Yes, that is an extreme example, but I think it gets the point across).

I did say a general rule, there is only so much anyone can do to safeguard their game against an oblivious player, but I would say that if you have the option to have four berserkers in your party you shouldn't have any mandatory encounters with physical-immune enemies.

I assume you're referencing Final Fantasy as your example, but there is a difference between these games. In Final Fantasy, if you find a class combination isn't working for you, you can switch at any time with no real penalty. You'll need to start over with a new job and perhaps buy new equipment, but you can always go grind that out if you really want to. In To Arms, as far as I can tell, there are no random encounters (I did get into an encounter on the way to Riverton, but as far as I could tell this was a scripted battle that I could not recreate) so if you pick a job that isn't working out, it isn't so easy to just pick up another job. And it definitely isn't possible to just suddenly respecialize in the middle of a mission to match whatever is coming.

If random encounters are in this game, or will be added later, that helps at least, but it's still possible to be trapped in a mission with a party that might not be up to the task. Reloading earlier saves can send you back a long ways and can be very frustrating, especially since the game as it is designed seems to encourage you to do this. In a game this linear, you really need to be able to beat any encounter with any reasonable combination of characters with a minimum of drama.


Don't get me wrong, I really wanted to like this game, I am just frustrated to see what I view as incredibly obvious bad design decisions marring what otherwise could have been a fun title.
Oh my god.

Edit:

comment=36743
For instance, if I played through a game with four Berserkers and had a tough time against physical-immune enemies as a result then that would be my fault, not the developer's.

What about a Warrior, Thief, Gladiator, Berserker combo? :D
Watching the obligatory hissy fit that comes with a review of Max Mcgee's games fills me with an overwhelming urge to work on my game even more.

Edit second part: I'm an idiot.
We're talking in extremes here. If I may, I'd like to focus this discussion to what Soli feels to be a core issue, and hear Max's response.

Personally, I'd expect someone to get their ass handed to them if they ran into difficult fights with four berserkers (or what have you). 99% of people, I wager, have the intelligence to know that you need balance in a party, even if it boils down to archetypes like the tank, the healer, the damage-dealer, the party support, etc. Soli gets this too. So let's examine his party make-up:

Deciding to branch out and cover a range of classes, I picked a pikeman, a knight, an archer, and a war priest.


Sounds reasonable. There is a variety of offense types, a class that is supposed to be able to draw incoming attacks and take the hits, and a healer. If I were making a new party, this party wouldn't be at all unreasonable, and could very well be my first choice. What I'd like Max to do is explain what the problem is with this set up, if he sees any, and how he would proceed through missions with them.

Another experience with RPG's I have is in regards to character builds. Perhaps Soli could go more into what skills he purchased with his characters. Depending on how the game is built, there's different ways I'd approach building up my characters. If purchased skills unlock the path to more powerful skills, then my builds typically follow that course. That is to say, I will stick with a single progression path to gain the more powerful skills more quickly. If this is not the case with the game, and gaining skills is like Tactics where all skills are available immediately, then I would simply peruse the skills to see what provides the most benefit the soonest. Soli mentioned he purchased a knight skill that increases the knight's threat. I credit Max with the assumption that it does have an effect, and it is functional, but design choice in its implementation could mean the difference between seeing its effect and not.

So, how about it, Max? Using the party make-up above, could you tell us how we could achieve success? Which skills should be learned to make the best use of those classes?

Furthermore, could you go into a little more detail about the change in gameplay experience we can expect with exercising variety with party make-ups? Is there any party with a healer type and another support type character (including either back-up healing or damage mitigation) that couldn't be made to work?
*makes party of Goof-Offs*
comment=36757
*makes party of Goof-Offs*
Best party, those goofs reach a point in their life where they become badass daredevils, with dual wielded lightsabers and strike x4 for 9999x32 attacks!

Also, I agree with and enjoy having to put some serious thought in my class selection and strategies for it thereafter, especially when there is more to it then basic archetypes. Difficulty should vary based on your class selection.
God I hated that part of FFT. Took like three playthroughs over the span of a few years before I got it right (I wouldn't play the game for long periods after I failed each time). I remember finally beating Wiegraf and being so proud of myself, and then all of a sudden I'm thrown into some ridiculous fight where Rafa dies before I even make a move. But I digress.
1) Why did this make it to the "Latest" feed on the main page?

2) The whole "you chose the wrong class combos for your party" was the same argument heard over and over for Blood Machine. I think Soli's right, if this error was somehow corrected, Max could have a true winner on his hands.

Nevertheless, I'll prolly take a crack at this eventually.
sbester: This is on the latest feed because there is a new download associated with the game available.

What I was getting at with my earlier post is that, while I disagree that you should be able to pick any 4 classes and win, you inversely shouldn't be forced into one or two "ideal" builds for a particular mission. Max argues that choosing different party make-ups to determine what works best for your missions is tactical mastery. I challenge that statement. I don't feel like I'm employing tactics when I'm wasting time trying to find out what works, I'd be employing tactics when I pick a group and MAKE them work.

There obviously should be a balance between finding what works, and making things work. Soli and Max are tugging at opposite ends of the rope.
I used the same party as Soli, except trade out the Knight for Engineer.

Enemy evasion became a problem when the party split up. If Janos and Horace are unlucky enough to miss against their enemies when they are alone, they stand to get punished for it (and probably die). And for some reason enemy evasion when fighting Cutjack and Rhea is obscenely high.

Just kill the enemy EVA. You can fuck with HIT/EVA stuff later, when the party is more refined and has more skills.

Also to correct SFL, stuff that is deemed interesting/important is manually pinned to the latest feed by staffers, at their discretion. Our reviewing staff (Solitayre, Silviera) often get their reviews pinned.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
comment=36743
As a general rule for any game with class systems or customizable parties, you should always be able to win with the party you have
This is one of the least true statements I have ever read in a review. Although I agree that the game shouldn't be so hard that you need a 100% correct choice to get through, I believe that a game should not be so easy that your class-choices have little-to-no effect on your probability on getting through the game.

For instance, if I played through a game with four Berserkers and had a tough time against physical-immune enemies as a result then that would be my fault, not the developer's.

(Yes, that is an extreme example, but I think it gets the point across).

Four berserkers is (I think) a pretty viable tactic in To Arms!. Edchuy played through it with four of each class and was able to beat the game with all of them.

Also, enemy evasion is fairly low with three meaningful exceptions:
-Cutjack (a rogue type miniboss with low HP and defense by boss standards whose main defense is evasion)
-Rhea (ditto)
-Generic Enemy Archers (ditto)

I never missed enough that it was frustrating in my own testing and neither did my testers. Then again, though, I am used to playing tabletop RPGs where you have to roll, say, a 15 or higher on a d20 to hit. I am used to this kind of frustration. (The WORST case scenarios in To Arms! (aside from being blinded) still give you at least a 1/2 chance of hitting. But that's the WORST case like using a low accuracy weapon or attack against the most agile enemy in the game. Like trying to Power Attack on Cutjack with a Battle Axe. I just did some quick calculations and the MEAN/AVERAGE enemy evasion in the game is 9%. There are outliers on both sides, like the Stormcrows Knight and Cutjack.

Right after that fight, you have to save Rafa on the roof. But with some combination of classes, its possible Rafa will be killed before any of your characters can even take any action to save her. Hope you have a thief or a ninja in your party, or (insert ridiculously convoluted, highly specific class combination here) or have fun starting over! This isn't early in the game either, this is probably at least twelve hours in. People hated this. Yet that's what you seem to be tailoring this game into. I am trying to warn you that this is a problem. Your expectation that players will play through this game, encounter a situation requiring specific strategies after a series of battles with no option to correct their mistakes, and that they will not get frustrated by this design but will instead obligingly reload an earlier save (which might need to be hours back before they can accumulate enough job points to properly reorganize) is asking an awful lot of the player.

In all of testing this kind of Riovanes castle situaton only happened once. Amongst all my testers. Only one time was I aware of myself or any tester stopping and needing to reload to a previous save and respec. The difficulty of said fight (Cutjack, Rhea, and the Archers) was resultantly lowered by about 50% and is only half as hard as it initially was.

Edchuy who was my most prolific tester was able to beat the game in a reasonable timeframe with every possible combination of all-one-class parties, and several combos of mixed parties. It was when I heard this that I decided that letting the player create any kind of party they want wasn't a bad design decision.

So, how about it, Max? Using the party make-up above, could you tell us how we could achieve success? Which skills should be learned to make the best use of those classes?

Totally depends how you want to build.

I kind of want to let my lead tester field this one. I think the answer might be more interesting coming from someone who wasn't directly involved in the creation of the game's battle system and number structure. Her part in the game was testing (with no kind of hints or help) and making two light maps so she's quite a bit further from the game than I am. She can speak as a player, without any "creator privilege" of additional information from being closer to the game. Of course, she still has tester privilege.

For the curious, here's MY answer. This is NOT the only way:

*Pikeman is one of the trickier classes to use. Edchuy likes to combine Bring It On with Javelin Throw. Gentle Prod has its uses.
*The best early-game knight ability is 'Honorguard'...it works GREAT on less intelligence enemies. They throw all of their attacks at your Honorguard Knight who takes very little damage from them. Give him good armor or use the "Hold the Line" buff to make the effect even better. This isn't the only way to use a Knight but it is a good defensive tactic.
*You can spec your Archer however you want. Try to save up for Blitz Shot/Manhunter or go for cheaper abilities like Poison Arrow and Charge. Charge + Heavy Crossbow + Let Them Have It + Might of Kryllor let's a low-level Archer hit for OVER 1,000 DAMAGE.
*I'd either teach Grenn 'Might' and the War Priest 'Miracle' or vice versa. 'Might' on an Archer (or for that matter, on every physical attacker you can cast it on) makes a huge difference.

The specs of your mains matter too:

If you're having trouble with the game, I suggest you give Janos the 'Hold The Line!!!!!' and 'Bull Rush' combination. Hold the Line increases Defense and Bull Rush's damage is based on Defense. If you're feeling more aggressive, though, a riskier strategy is to give Janos 'Let Them Have It' and have him dual-wield withTide of Iron. Lightning Bolt is a great spell for Horace to 'snipe' with either way.

Again (or rather yet again) this isn't the only way to win easily. It's just the first thing that came to mind. I strongly encourage people to try and/or retry the game and see for themselves. There is a lot more strategic depth than you expect from an RPG Maker game, and it might be easy to miss all the cool combos and strategies there are depending on just how low your expectations are going in.

Furthermore, could you go into a little more detail about the change in gameplay experience we can expect with exercising variety with party make-ups? Is there any party with a healer type and another support type character (including either back-up healing or damage mitigation) that couldn't be made to work?

Apparently edchuy beat the game with 'four of' every possible class. That includes stupid things like "four pikemen" and "four alchemists" which to me seem like a hard mode type challenge. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, though. Player success depends on MANY factors. You should try the game yourself SFL and see how you fare with different class/skill/equip combinations.

2) The whole "you chose the wrong class combos for your party" was the same argument heard over and over for Blood Machine. I think Soli's right, if this error was somehow corrected, Max could have a true winner on his hands.

This has a much, much smoother difficulty curve than Bloodmachine. It's the difference between five members and one.

I have chosen the same classes for my recruits and I am having NO problems. Thoughout the whole of the goblin mission, my Knight died once (he was using Honourguard to tank and I didn't get to heal him in time - Honourguard is the fucking shit), my Archer died once (a boss hit him for a critical when he had around half his health left; shit happens) and Horace died once (he is fairly low on hit-points).

Let's see how the rest of the demo pans out for me...

I appreciate that your experience with the game is at least roughly commensurate with that of me and my testers. Honorguard IS the shit. When you get to the part where you play as just Horace and Janos, I hope that doesn't change your mind. That part is tricky, but is very doable. It's all a matter of reducing your DPT (damage per turn) either by buffing defense, debuffing enemy attacks, or eliminating tangos quickly. If you can't do any of those three things, that part can be pretty tough.
Max all your games suck forever.

I know this because I just re-watched myself play your castle level in RMN Bros., which sucks forever.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
You suck forever.
DE
*click to edit*
1313
This game is fucking terrible, I'm actually surprised this got as many as 2,5 stars.

Witness the downfall of Legion - from excellent story-driven RPGs and adventure games to terrible gameplay-centric abominations based on awful game-design decisions. From Iron Gaia and Backstage to Mage Duel and To Arms!. Awesome progression, you're maturing as a developer, all right.
comment=36995
This game is fucking terrible, I'm actually surprised this got as many as 2,5 stars.

Witness the downfall of Legion - from excellent story-driven RPGs and adventure games to terrible gameplay-centric abominations based on awful game-design decisions. From Iron Gaia and Backstage to Mage Duel and To Arms!. Awesome progression, you're maturing as a developer, all right.

I liked Eldritch. :/
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