• Add Review
  • Subscribe
  • Nominate
  • Submit Media
  • RSS

I Hate RMVX

  • calunio
  • 02/01/2011 03:04 PM
  • 15962 views
I've always made games in RM2k3. My next big game will be on RMVX. For my Shinan's weird contest entry, I was divided between both.

RMVX Pros:
Better graphics;
Larger charsets;
Warming up for my next project;

RM2k3 Pros:
I'm familiar with it. Actually, I'm the wizard of rm2k3. I can do anything I want with events.

But I decided to go with VX because of the larger characters. The dancers wouldn't have looked good in 24x32. Probably not a good idea planning on making a game with an original system, custom graphics WHILE learning a new engine.

But hey, everyone always says that:

RMVX can do everything RM2k3 does + scripts.

LIES

Here's my first experience with VX.

First thing I did was the sprites. Dancers were 60x80, the little devil is 85x85. Nice being able to sprite freely.

Then I made the Satan part. I wanted an overlay. I used the show picture command, but the picture followed my character. I looked for a "picture scrolls with map" option, but there was none. Then I found out I needed a SCRIPT for it, because I guess keeping that checkbox would be too much to ask. Nessiah gave me the script.

For the same Satan scene, I wanted to make him open his eyes. Satan is a panorama. So I looked for a "change panorama" thing somewhere. I actually didn't look, cause I learned earlier VX doesn't do that either. But I solved this easier with pictures.

On a brigther note, I liked not losing colors on my backgrounds. Something like this on 2k3 would have looked much uglier:



Next step was the title screen. I knew how to modify the title image. Changing scripts. But what I wanted to do was remove the "Continue" option from the title screen. I messed up with the Scene_Title script a lot, but always getting buggy results. I finally did that but the Shutdown option is gray. I wasn't able to fix that. I also wasn't able to change the words "New Game" and "Shutdown". I know it's possible, I just didn't find out how.

One thing I learned about VX is self-switches. They're good for not stacking your switch list with stuff you'll only use once.

I had another problem with showing overlays. In rm2k3, I usually show overlays making a parallel event and using the commands:

Show picture;
Erase event;

With this, you don't see the picture being shown... when you get to the map, the picture is already there, cause the event acts immediately. In VX, there was a tiny yet horrendous lag that made me teleport to the map with no overlay, and after a few seconds the overlay appeared. But I was able to fix that with fade-ins and fade-outs.

People complain about the mapping in VX being complicated... but since I only use panoramas, I didn't have problems with that. The good thing about VX is that you can have panoramas of any size.

Another thing I missed was the option "wait until key is pressed". It would be good to show the introductory screens. I had to replace that with invisible events surrounding the hero char. A bit annoying.

Now comes the gruesome part. This is a scored game, your goal is to make a high score. Marvel Brothel was like that, the score is visible at the top of the screen at all times:



It's money, actually.
Making something like that in 2k3 is hell. You need one picture for each digit (0-9), a code to separate a big number into digits, and a lot of trial-and-error to correctly place the numbers on the screen. Something like that:



It goes way down...

But hey, this is VX, right? I could do this a lot easier with scripts.

Well, yes I could. But finding a script to show a g**d*** number of the screen wasn't that easy. Liberty found me one similar and edited it to suit my needs. But I needed extra help from the Help Forum to change the font. And the final result doesn't look that awesome.

Finally a big surprise: VX can't do math! There was a place in the code that basically had something like:

30 * 1 = 1

I checked the code many many times, but nothing seemed to be wrong. Only the math was wrong. People on irc told me it's an actual bug in RMVX. Really... math? Well, I fixed it changing 30 * 1 to 1 * 30. It worked. No idea why.

Finally, an issue with VX that had an actual impact on the game. There's no "wait until key is pressed" for the key input thing. If you press A, it's like pressing AAAAAAAAA. It completely messed the mechanics of my game (if you played it, you know what I mean). My solution was to add a wait command before the key input. The downside is that the player has to hold a key instead of just pressing it. Makes the whole thing a lot less smooth. There's probably a script for it too, but... 3 days.

I thought making VX games run without the RTP was easier because of the game compress thing. I added all RTP files I used to my folders, and then I compressed the game. If I checked "add RTP files" it added ALL files, including the ones I wasn't using. Changed my game size from 27MB to 69MB. No thanks. If I didn't check this option, the game would ask for the RTP to run. My solution was... to delete all useless RTP files from the RTP folders, and check the "add RTP" option. It probably adds some system files too. Well, at least it worked.

Bottom line... yeah, VX is much better than 2k3, but the transition is not as smooth as it should be. You people who tell 2k3 users to switch to VX... don't. RM2k3 is way easier to use, period.

PS: Thanks to the people on #rpgmaker.net for helping me all the way and putting up with my drama. :D

Posts

Pages: first 1234 next last
wow, a whole ton of bitching that was pretty much the result of trying to learn a new engine within three days for the most amazing of reasons: BIGGER SPRITES.

and then you try to legitimize your bitching by saying "don't switch."

brilliant man. you deserve a fucking medal.
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
author=WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.


Your attitude is absurd
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13829
Versalia
WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
Your attitude is absurd


Or practical, pragmatic and useful.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
author=Craze
Versalia
WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
Your attitude is absurd
Or practical, pragmatic and useful.


Not everybody's bottom line is practicality. I have a friend who is a fantastic programmer and could work in any medium he wanted. However, he CHOOSES to design a MUD. Not because it is practical, pragmatic and useful, but because it is his preferred medium. He likes the old-school feel, the way colored forms of text play out over the screen, etc. It's also even MORE rewarding to work within a very limited system yet still manage to come up with something innovative and/or enjoyable. It's like telling an artist "nobody should be finger painting." Who the hell are you to look down your nose at someone's medium, if what they produce is still enjoyable on some level?
hey you know the paint leonardo da vinci used to make his paintings?

they don't make it anymore. it's outdated.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3304
author=Karsuman
hey you know the paint leonardo da vinci used to make his paintings?

they don't make it anymore. it's outdated.

Indeed. Just imagine what he could have made if he had access to today's tools.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
author=Sailerius
author=Karsuman
hey you know the paint leonardo da vinci used to make his paintings?

they don't make it anymore. it's outdated.
Indeed. Just imagine what he could have made if he had access to today's tools.


Many artists using "today's tools" do not come close to what he made.
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
author=Versalia
author=Craze
Versalia
WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
Your attitude is absurd
Or practical, pragmatic and useful.
Not everybody's bottom line is practicality. I have a friend who is a fantastic programmer and could work in any medium he wanted. However, he CHOOSES to design a MUD. Not because it is practical, pragmatic and useful, but because it is his preferred medium. He likes the old-school feel, the way colored forms of text play out over the screen, etc. It's also even MORE rewarding to work within a very limited system yet still manage to come up with something innovative and/or enjoyable. It's like telling an artist "nobody should be finger painting." Who the hell are you to look down your nose at someone's medium, if what they produce is still enjoyable on some level?

Your example doesn't make any sense. His "medium" isn't a MUD. He is creating a MUD. You are trying to create a gigantic stretch of logic here.

He is probably also developing his MUD with the latest modern programming tools. Why isn't he using a decade old version of a programming language? Oh that's because there are better tools out there that have been created in the past ten years. IDEs have improved. Debugging has improved.

Ask your programmer friend to make his MUD in COBOL.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
His code is a derivative of DikuMUD which is incredibly patchy, outdated and hard to work with - he is NOT, in fact, using the most modern programming tools. My point totally stands - he is working within an outdated, limited medium and still producing an enjoyable and interesting game.

Sailerius
did someone say angels
3304
author=Versalia
author=Sailerius
author=Karsuman
hey you know the paint leonardo da vinci used to make his paintings?

they don't make it anymore. it's outdated.
Indeed. Just imagine what he could have made if he had access to today's tools.
Many artists using "today's tools" do not come close to what he made.

Many artists aren't Leonardo da Vinci.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
author=Sailerius
author=Versalia
author=Sailerius
author=Karsuman
hey you know the paint leonardo da vinci used to make his paintings?

they don't make it anymore. it's outdated.
Indeed. Just imagine what he could have made if he had access to today's tools.
Many artists using "today's tools" do not come close to what he made.
Many artists aren't Leonardo da Vinci.


To take a slightly different spin, I've seen some pretty AWESOME and intense macaroni art. Is it inherently better or worse than a good painting? How about a good clay sculpture?
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
Now just imagine how much better the MUD would be made if he wasn't using old software.

Realize that most people who run the Anti-RMVX flag do not realize that the DEVELOPMENT PIPELINE is just as important if not more than the featureset. How long does it take you to show a custom window in RM2k3 vs. RMVX? How fast can you make the changes you want?

If it takes me (RMVX) one day to accomplish what takes you (RM2k3) a week, why on earth would I use something that would waste my time? It's the same thing with this DikuMUD. Yeah it works, but if there was something that offered an equivalent experience with half the development time, it would be logically foolish to not use it.

There is a serious divide between people who just like to fuck around with RM and those who actually want to create something with it. If you are happy being in the former party, fine. You can use whatever you want for fun and experience and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are actually trying to create and accomplish, then willingly handicapping yourself over some religious-like furor defeats the entire purpose.
Back on topic...

If VX had better sprites I'd probably already be using it. It's ugly as hell, so I don't. Higher resolution is nice, but not when every game for VX looks exactly the same.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
author=WIP
Now just imagine how much better the MUD would be made if he wasn't using old software.

Realize that most people who run the Anti-RMVX flag do not realize that the DEVELOPMENT PIPELINE is just as important if not more than the featureset. How long does it take you to show a custom window in RM2k3 vs. RMVX? How fast can you make the changes you want?

If it takes me (RMVX) one day to accomplish what takes you (RM2k3) a week, why on earth would I use something that would waste my time? It's the same thing with this DikuMUD. Yeah it works, but if there was something that offered an equivalent experience with half the development time, it would be logically foolish to not use it.

There is a serious divide between people who just like to fuck around with RM and those who actually want to create something with it. If you are happy being in the former party, fine. You can use whatever you want for fun and experience and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are actually trying to create and accomplish, then willingly handicapping yourself over some religious-like furor defeats the entire purpose.


My "furor" is hardly "religious." And I NEVER claimed to be Anti-RMVX or RMXP in any way. I'm simply questioning the religious furor with which the Anti-RM2k3 flag is raised.

Now, the reason a more modern system isn't used is because of the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE amount of transitional work required. So much has been done within an outdated system that at this point it's more counterproductive than not to attempt to convert the entire project.

My question is what, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? Impressing other people who make games as a hobby? Good for you. Trying to make a commercially viable game that you can make money off of? Good luck to you.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3304
author=sbester
Back on topic...

If VX had better sprites I'd probably already be using it. It's ugly as hell, so I don't. Higher resolution is nice, but not when every game for VX looks exactly the same.
That's why I prefer XP. I find that there's not a significant difference in functionality between XP/VX, but XP's visual style and mapping system is far more aesthetically pleasing to me (although that's just personal preference).

EDIT to reply to ninja-Versalia:
My question is what, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? Impressing other people who make games as a hobby? Good for you. Trying to make a commercially viable game that you can make money off of? Good luck to you.
If I had to wager a guess, I'd say what he's trying to accomplish is to see people make better games. Making any reasonably complex system in an event-based engine will set you back a significant amount of time, time that could have been invested in other features or in finishing the game and starting on a new one.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
author=WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
those who belong to the order of the cherrytree think otherwise...

My "furor" is hardly "religious." And I NEVER claimed to be Anti-RMVX or RMXP in any way. I'm simply questioning the religious furor with which the Anti-RM2k3 flag is raised.
The only reason there is any real stigma against Rm2k3 has to do almost solely with the battle system itself..
STOP DEFENDING VX WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH DAMN, PEOPLE
If you want to make a decent VX game you need scripts for THE MOST BASIC FUNCTION.
A script for LESS PICTURE LAG. A script for DECENT MAPPIGN (or else an antilag for the huge ammount of events you will need)
Scripts to editting the poor, unbalanced, loosy, limited BS.
Scripts for almost ANYTHING!!!
And if you want event systems... ( I love them. They're more artsy and original )
...RMVX' EVENTS SUCK!
RMVX is for the one who wants so spend a really HUGE ammount of time for something that can be ultimatelly better than 2k3 due to resolution. (because, in fact, rm2k3 HAVE a script language. I don't know if it's as good as RGSS, ask cherry.)

All in all I stick to rm2k3 because:
*Smaller resolution = less trouble, more details (or less resolution = more "detailed" sprites, since it takes four times less trouble to detail them)
*Way better event commands
*Way better battle system, but with a few annoying bugs such as the gumb way INT works.

And the best of it, many, many more reasons coming due to Wolfcoder and Cherry. (they're Gods, you know.)
Including many troubling functionalities that you can have with scripts in VX, way less buggy (i hope lol) and way simpler. All in all, rm2k3 is a simpler, more direct tool. You can create things as good - or better than - vx's. Just.with.smaller.resolution. (But with 32bits images as far as wolfcoder's 20xx goes, I believe.)
So, that's it.

And sorry if I'm a bustling wolfcoder / cherry fan, they're too awesome and what they're making is making me TOOOO HAPPPPPYYYYY
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20742
I think that people should use whatever they have the most fun using
since I think that game creation is the hobby
and that people playing the game is secondary to that

But yeah, I am working with (and have worked with in the past) massive enterprise systems that are built and maintained using antiquated tools and languages like COBOL and QBASIC (not a lie!). The transition to the new tools is just too much of a barrier to entry. /tangent Also, you can make the mona lisa in MS Paint /tangent2

So, yeah, I have had fun and still have fun create games and accomplishing my aims in RM2k3. And, if I took the time, I'd probably have the same experience with VX.

Can't we all just get along?
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1281
KentonA you are my hero

My hero in this realm, if you will
Pages: first 1234 next last