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James's Techniques: Lightbulbs

  • LockeZ
  • 03/04/2011 05:34 PM
  • 2042 views
One of my goals in Iniquity and Vindication is to give each character a different style of learning new skills. For instance, there will be a (slightly non-traditional) blue mage, a character who uses Wild ARMs style Crest Graphs, and a character who acts like a Mystic from SaGa Frontier. I haven't actually decided on all of them yet. But I've definitely decided on the main character, James. He's a swordsman, and he'll be using a Lightbulb system, similar to humans in most of the SaGa series.

The system I used isn't straight up ripped out of the SaGa games. Thank God. That system is extremely unpredictable and unreliable because of the huge amount of randomness. It's really only tolerable because A) there are a lot of extremely redundant skills, and B) the games are easy enough to beat without breaking a sweat even if most of your characters end up pretty weak at the end. Neither of facts is going to be true of Iniquity and Vindication.

The main difference in my system is the addition of a counter. In SaGa Frontier, for example, you might have a 1/50 chance per hit to learn a skill. In Iniquity and Vindication, you'll instead be unable to learn that skill until you've used your weaker ones 50 times, and once you satisfy that requirement you'll have something like a 1/4 chance per hit to learn the new skill.

Similar to SaGa Frontier, though, skills of a certain type do lead to other similar skills. There's not just one giant counter, but there's also not one counter per ability. The skills are split up into categories: Dark, Sword, Martial, and Ki. If you use martial skills, you'll get more martial skills. If you use dark skills, you'll get more dark skills. And so forth.

Make sense? It's kind of complicated, which is part of why the details of the system are hidden from the player - all they know is that using their old skills repeatedly will eventually lead to learning new ones of the same type. Which is enough for them to know, really, since they're likely going to be using James's skills almost every round.


Here's a list of some of James's skills. Or, well, actually all of the ones I've decided on so far. Also note that James only has 100 MP for the entire game, and regenerates 5 MP each round, and is fully restored after each battle. It helps put the MP restoring skills in perspective.

Basic Actions
Attack - Normal physical damage. Doesn't help you learn skills, but is free.
Chakra - Defend, restore a small amount of HP (Based on James's willpower, but usually about 15-20% of his max HP), and restore 10% of his max MP. Doesn't help you learn skills, but is free.

Dark Skills
1) Silhouette - 140% of normal damage. Dark elemental. Start with this ability.
2) Blotted Life - Sacrifice 10% of James's max HP to restore 25% of his max MP.
3) Ebon Defilement - 250% of normal damage. Increases the target's PDef & MDef by 50% for one round. Dark elemental. 3 round cooldown. This skill is most useful when your other party members are busy handling things like healing and buffs.
4) Dark Wave - Sacrifice 10% of James's max HP to attack all enemies for 40% of normal damage. Dark elemental.
5) Blackguard - Give all allies a barrier that reflects 50% of dark damage back onto enemies. Lasts 3 rounds. I'm not sure about this skill and might change it.
6) Vampiric Sword - 70% of normal damage, drains HP. Dark elemental. 1 round cooldown.

Sword Skills
1) Victory Blow - 50% of normal damage. Restores 30% of James's MP if you kill an enemy with this attack. Start with this ability.
2) Colossal Swing - 180% of normal damage. 5 round cooldown.
3) Preemptive Strike - 70% of normal damage to all enemies that have full HP. Fails against enemies that have less than full HP. Obviously useful on round 1, but a lot of his other skills are also useful on round 1, so I don't think this'll turn into a skill you always use at the same time in every single battle.
4) Phoenix Wing - 160% of normal damage. Fire elemental. Revives a random dead ally with 1 HP. Very high MP cost.
5) Flash Cut - 40% of normal damage. James's next turn comes twice as fast. (Yes, I'm using an ATB system.)
6) To The Limit - 200% of normal damage. Only usable when James's HP is 10% or less. Low MP cost to make up for the inherent risk.

Martial Skills
1) Stunstrike - Stun the enemy for one round. No damage. Start with this ability.
2) Pimpslap - Backhand the bitch, silencing it for one round. 110% of normal damage.
3) Face Smash - 90% of normal damage, and lowers the enemy's PDef and MDef by 25% for one round. 3 round cooldown. The opposite of Ebon Defilement, it's most useful when all your other party members are able to attack this round.
4) Suplex - A combination physical/demi skill that deals 60% of normal damage plus 8% of the target's current HP. Useful early in the battle, especially against enemies with high HP.
5) Knuckle Remedy - Deals more physical damage when the enemy is inflicted with more negative effects, but removes all negative effects from the enemy.

Ki Skills
1) Power Absorb - Lower an enemy's attack power by 20% and raise James's attack power by 20% for three rounds. Usable once per battle. Start with this ability.
2) Inspiration - Raise all allies' max HP by 25% for three rounds. 5 round cooldown.
3) Wind Crash - 40% of normal damage to all enemies. Wind elemental. Makes all enemies and allies resistant to wind for 2 rounds.
4) Shockwave - 120% of normal damage to one enemy and 20% of normal damage to all other enemies. 1 round cooldown.
5) Thunder Clap - 30% of normal damage to all enemies. Lightning elemental. Decreases all enemies' speed slightly for one round. 3 round cooldown.
6) Empowerment - Increases James's attack power by 30% and reduces all his MP costs to 0 for three rounds. Usable once per battle.


James is a physical fighter, first and foremost, but as the main character he also has a good supply of support skills, both offensive and defensive. He's designed to never run out of MP, between his natural regen each round and all his MP-restoring skills... but MP is still a major factor of how often you can use his skills. The goal is to give the player a feeling that a different skill is optimal each round, so that combat never becomes repetitive.

Of his four skill categories, I'm least happy about the martial skills. Stunstrike just isn't going to work as-is - it's way too powerful against a single enemy and completely useless when you're outnumbered. Suplex is boring. And I haven't even thought of a sixth one yet.

You can tell I'm not a fan of actually giving straight-up upgrades. His skills all continue to be useful for the entire game. You already get more raw power from equipment and levels - skills should give you more versatility, not just a third source of more raw power. Most, if not all, of the characters in Iniquity and Vindication will likely work that way.

Posts

Pages: 1
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
I have a few fundamental issues here. Ebon Gambit is majorly flawed. It's an attack that deals quite a bit of damage, but punishes you for not waiting until the last possible moment to use the ability. Compare to Victory Blow, which deals very little damage, but rewards you for waiting until the last possible moment to use the ability - V.Blow is done properly. You should have a reward incentive as to which finishing blow to choose. Ebon Gambit offers nothing except possibly ending the fight a bit faster. I appreciate the idea of a gamble, but that's not really a gamble; it's "this attack kills them or you get punished." Not only that, but something like Empowerment (which I can use every single battle, and have no reason NOT to use every single battle) completely devalues the weaker Victory Blow.

Also this looks almost exactly like V&V's blog
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Versalia
Ebon Gambit is majorly flawed.
I can see where you're coming from. The idea was that the player doesn't always know for sure that the enemy is low on HP, so they might take a gamble and hope that it doesn't take more than four or five more hits to kill it after using Ebon Gambit. But after thinking about this, I agree that it's a boring attack. Instead of +15% def until the battle ends, I think I'm going to change it to +50% def for one round. And change its name.

author=Versalia
something like Empowerment (which I can use every single battle, and have no reason NOT to use every single battle) completely devalues the weaker Victory Blow.
Oh, you're fully expected to use Empowerment in most battles, once you learn it. The strategy will be in choosing when to use it. If you need to use any buffs or items for the next three rounds, it's going to lower your overall damage output, even if it saves you MP.

author=Versalia
Also this looks almost exactly like V&V's blog
I'll... take that as a compliment!
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=LockeZ
author=Versalia
something like Empowerment (which I can use every single battle, and have no reason NOT to use every single battle) completely devalues the weaker Victory Blow.

Oh, you're fully expected to use Empowerment in most battles, once you learn it. The strategy will be in choosing when to use it. If you need to use any buffs or items for the next three rounds, it's going to lower your overall damage output, even if it saves you MP.


Okay, but, why use Victory Blow then? I can use Empowerment on the very first round of the next fight I get into, and use the 0 MP cost to throw out all my most powerful moves D: It's only really strategically important not to waste it in a boss battle... but that's okay I suppose.

I support changes to the Ebon Gambit ability but maybe it should have a dichotomy of punishment/reward. If it kills them you gain X awesome thing; if it doesn't they have +50% defense for a round or three
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well, you regain full MP after each fight anyway. Both skills are equally useless if the fight isn't long enough for you to run out of MP. But not many fights will be that short.
My main problem with the skill sets here is that they lack coherent internal themes. With this sort of incremental skill set, where gaining further access to the skills requires you use ones earlier in the sequence repeatedly, you want coherent themes so that a player can decide what they want from the character and specialize in trees appropriately. The first two to three skills in each tree should give me an idea of what the tree is about and what it's useful for at its higher levels.

In the Tales games, for instance, if you want better versions of your Demon Fang projectile, or another attack that does the many weaker hits of Sword Rain, you use Demon Fang or Sword Rain. In FF7, you get Fire 2 from the same materia that gives you Fire. And in Saga games, the weapons have small sub-specialties; Swords and Bows tend to have multi-target attacks, Staves have status debuffs, Axes and Spears are high DPS with few frills...

But here, your themes are all over the place; they seem more based on the flavor of the tree than the mechanics it uses. Martial is good - it's the debuff/status + damage tree, with a skill that complements that well. Ki and Dark sort of have buffing and sacrifice themes going. Sword is just all over the place. (Phoenix Wing smacks of 'well, I have this, where should it go? eh, here will work, I guess' design.)

I'd suggest running with the themes I identified.
Keep Martial as it is; the theme is good.
Make Ki the self-buffing set.
Make Sword the heavy general DPS; give it a strong single-hit attack (high defense enemies), a multi-hit attack (lower defense enemies), an attack-all skill (many enemies), the Quick Hit skill you currently have... Make it so it does one thing, but it can do so in many different ways for fighting different opponents. Depth not breadth.
Make Dark more the weird conditional set. Sacrifices for benefits, preventing enemies from taking certain actions, Ebon Defilement, maybe something that triggers based on dead allies... It's not as directly powerful as the others, but in the right situation it's more powerful. (You'll have to make learning higher levels require less uses here than other trees, though.)

Or run with completely different themes. The specifics don't matter, so long as the theme is well-chosen. Just *have* themes. Internally consistent philosophy makes a real difference.
author=Einander
My main problem with the skill sets here is that they lack coherent internal themes. With this sort of incremental skill set, where gaining further access to the skills requires you use ones earlier in the sequence repeatedly, you want coherent themes so that a player can decide what they want from the character and specialize in trees appropriately. The first two to three skills in each tree should give me an idea of what the tree is about and what it's useful for at its higher levels.

In the Tales games, for instance, if you want better versions of your Demon Fang projectile, or another attack that does the many weaker hits of Sword Rain, you use Demon Fang or Sword Rain. In FF7, you get Fire 2 from the same materia that gives you Fire. And in Saga games, the weapons have small sub-specialties; Swords and Bows tend to have multi-target attacks, Staves have status debuffs, Axes and Spears are high DPS with few frills...

But here, your themes are all over the place; they seem more based on the flavor of the tree than the mechanics it uses. Martial is good - it's the debuff/status + damage tree, with a skill that complements that well. Ki and Dark sort of have buffing and sacrifice themes going. Sword is just all over the place. (Phoenix Wing smacks of 'well, I have this, where should it go? eh, here will work, I guess' design.)

I'd suggest running with the themes I identified.
Keep Martial as it is; the theme is good.
Make Ki the self-buffing set.
Make Sword the heavy general DPS; give it a strong single-hit attack (high defense enemies), a multi-hit attack (lower defense enemies), an attack-all skill (many enemies), the Quick Hit skill you currently have... Make it so it does one thing, but it can do so in many different ways for fighting different opponents. Depth not breadth.
Make Dark more the weird conditional set. Sacrifices for benefits, preventing enemies from taking certain actions, Ebon Defilement, maybe something that triggers based on dead allies... It's not as directly powerful as the others, but in the right situation it's more powerful. (You'll have to make learning higher levels require less uses here than other trees, though.)

Or run with completely different themes. The specifics don't matter, so long as the theme is well-chosen. Just *have* themes. Internally consistent philosophy makes a real difference.


I agree with this poster. A more centralized concept will also make a smoother flow gameplay wise.
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