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Does this need to be 'remade'?

Not that I am jumping on the 'remake' bandwagon ( tbh, it seems a bit silly making the game from scratch in the same engine ). Rather, it's a Redux Plus version of the game that will address several of the game's glaring flaws ( its pacing for one thing, and character/villian development for another ) with more content and maybe new artwork/portraits/redesigns. And probably more Siglud/Cillian shenanigans as a 'Prologue' chapter.

Now I am asking you this. If I do end up making a Redux Plus version of Enelysion, what additional features would you like to see added? Should I make a seperate game page, or keep all relevant updates here? Should I give Laine the option to end up with Siggy or Cil? ( poor Pat is out because of... duties)Should I improve the crafting system, or just leave it out? Would you like to see superbosses and even more optional sidequests/goodies?

Graphically, the game will stay the same, but with a better menu system ( sort of like Tristian's, but I took that demo down now ) and the same battle system ( it worked fine, I don't see any reason to change it, though I may nerf some skills, and buff others ).

If I were a US/Canadian citizen, I'd probably Kickstart the game and see how it would do commercially, but that is a whole new can of worms that I do not want opened, especially if I haven't got a fanbase outside of RM in general ( then again, do I have one at all? ). >< But I do feel that Laine's pre-promotion design is pretty iconic. I may even change her actual promotion outfit ( and make promoted outfits for the other characters too ).

Another thing that has been bothering me for a while is that this game will always be my, well... flagship title. Even if Tristian is released one day, I highly doubt it will be as popular as this game. Since Enelysion feels so much closer to a traditional JRPG, it tends to cater for a larger demographic than Tristian, which focuses more on political drama. And the fact that Laine looks a bit like Lightning probably makes her more popular than Tristy by default ( who is based off my favourite Fire Emblem character )... ><

So yes. Thoughts on the matter, anyone?

Posts

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Red_Nova
The all around prick
9200
Honestly... I don't think a Redux Plus version is necessary. I think you should stick to patching the version that's already out if you want to keep working on this (Redux version 2.0 instead of Redux Plus). Keep in mind that volume 2 wasn't complete until November, so this full game hasn't even been out for a year yet. I feel like it's a bit too early to be talking about remakes or remastering. Though if you're going to go through with this, I can give you some extra info about how I played to hopefully help you out, but I think Tristian should be your main focus. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that Cillian-Siguld spinoff, if that was a separate game entirely.

About the popularity contest: If Tristian already has 3/4 the subscriber count as Enelysion this early in development, I think it's safe to say that that number will keep rising the further into development you go. Don't worry about that.

Also...

author=Luchino
then again, do I have (a fanbase) at all?


Did you seriously just ask that? Take another look at Enelysion's accomplishments and try writing that sentence again. The numbers both on this page and on the stats thread, as well as the fact that it got a featured spot on the front page should be more than enough of an answer.
nhubi
Liberté, égalité, fraternité
11099
^ What he said.

Also if I was the sort to get morally outraged (I'm really not) I'd be waving my fist at the screen at the moment, do you have a fanbase? Pfffft, I say to you, and once more Pfffft!

This game has a 4-star rating over seven reviews (and 3k+ downloads) and the developer still thinks that it needs remaking...

I just feel or felt, that the game could have been better. That's all. I want Tristian to surpass this game on so many levels it hurts. Because I know it's better.

My self-doubt is one of biggest flaws as well. Mentally, I do think of myself as a 'star developer who has inspired who knows how many people with her level design, but sometimes seeks the reassurance of like-minded people that such thinking doesn't come across as big-headed/arrogant' etc.

I'm also a dev who doesn't go around shoving her games onto every social media/RM-related site ( I stopped updating my game threads on RMW more than a year ago ). Because I am modest to the point of invisibility.

Anyway, that's just a ramble. I posted this blog while at work too.
Red_Nova
The all around prick
9200
Of course Enelysion could have been better. That's true about literally every thing anyone has ever made in the history of ever. Eventually though, a creator has to realize when something is done, and decide that it's time to step away from it (minus the bug fixings and minor updates). You've learned a lot from Enelysion. Apply that to Tristian and soon people will be singing its praises instead.

Yeah, I know how much of a toll self doubt can take on a person. I feel that same pressure when I'm working on my current project. But statements like the one I quoted, even if it wasn't completely serious, go a bit too far. Say them enough and eventually, if you don't admit it, a part of you starts to believe them. From there, it's not very far until you're too miserable to have fun working on games anymore.

For me, it helps to think of them not as better or worse, because that's pretty subjective, but two different beasts. Even if Tristian checks off all the points on the list that objectively make it a better designed and developed game, there will always be people that will prefer Enelysion because of their personal opinions (even if it's just nostalgia-blindness).

So don't worry about whether or not it will be more well-received. That puts your hopes and happiness into a force outside of your control, which is never a good idea. You clearly believe Tristian to be better, so show off what you've learned since Enelysion, and the attention will follow naturally.
CashmereCat
Self-proclaimed Puzzle Snob
11638
Haha luchino you have one of the biggest fan bases on this site, get over it, man

Also focus on Tristian but also just keeping doing you cos you're doing great. I feel like you need some one to constantly remind you of this in every waking minute.
Cap_H
DIGITAL IDENTITY CRISIS
6625
Enelysion is perfect as it is. It has its flaws, but they are like freckles. They make it betta.
If you wanna kickstart something, do a sequel.
Maybe there's an underlying reason as well. Maybe I still find it hard to properly let go of a project I've been working on since 2011, a project that made me a 'name' in the RM community, if you could call it that, and a project that brought me equal amounts of happiness and sometimes even depression.

Yes, I know sequels and prequels exist, but it isn't the same.

Forgive me for rambling. I'll go back to my den and work on Tristian now.
Red_Nova
The all around prick
9200
I can't imagine working on something as long as you've been working on this, but I definitely understand the hesitancy of letting go of projects. That doesn't mean that you have to let go of this cast of characters that you and many others have grown attached to. Just find new and fresh venues for them to really shine.

There's nothing wrong with rambling. It's nice to get your thoughts out, and encouragement is always welcome to both give and receive. It was just that one remark that bothered me. Again, I'm sure it wasn't too serious, but... yeah.

I hope this was helpful in some way!
Well, Laine and co. will make a cameo in Tristian because the two game worlds are linked so...

As for the blog itself, I don't know whether I was being serious or not ( I wrote the blog because I was bored at work >< and I am a pretty serious dev myself. I hardly fool around in the Welp, Welp thread, for one ). I also need to stop being reminded of whether I'm an A-list RMdev or not. That mentality has got to go. But I do appreciate the words of encouragement nonetheless ( it would have been met with cold indifference on another site that I have every reason to hate ).

So thanks guys. I always know I can count on you. Doubting oneself is a terrible hindrance.
I don't think this game needs to be remade. I think it's perfect the way it is, and you got 4 out of 5 stars. I can understand the feeling of not being satisfied. I know how that feels. But honestly if you want to remake it that is up to you.
Did some thinking over. I'd rather focus on getting Tristian done and trying to make it the best I can( then maybe I'll retire from RMing for good so I can focus more on my pixel art ).
shayoko
We do not condone harassing other members by PM.
515
i have not got around to really playing your original yet but...

-same guy id say same page just keep the original games final download available

-not quite sure why you would remake from scratch would imagine it would be
substantially quicker to just edit what you have.

-not really a fan of crafting especially in rpg maker few people have done it well.

-don't care about relationships,so w/e makes you happy there

-super bosses(optional) are always really great! being more powerful then the story related stuff and your interested to see what you will be rewarded with if you manage to win :3

off topic
-i am still highly lookign forward to Tristian!
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7419
author=Sated
This game has a 4-star rating over seven reviews (and 3k+ downloads) and the developer still thinks that it needs remaking...



Pom Gets Wi-Fi has a 3.5 star rating over 13 reviews with 168k downloads, doesn't mean it's good.

author=Luchino
Mentally, I do think of myself as a 'star developer who has inspired who knows how many people with her level design, but sometimes seeks the reassurance of like-minded people that such thinking doesn't come across as big-headed/arrogant' etc.
author=Luchino
a project that made me a 'name' in the RM community, if you could call it that
author=Luchino
I also need to stop being reminded of whether I'm an A-list RMdev or not. That mentality has got to go.


I encourage you to look into this game's history, because I seriously think you're going down the same path. It's pretty universally accepted that the first game was a whole star rating better than the second, despite the developer's efforts to branch out. You got lucky with your first game and now you're having second thoughts on whether or not you can ride this success (as the person who made X game) through the rest of your career. People who meet success early on plateau earlier than others because they're never forced to keep reaching; it's a tragic shame, really.

Trust me, you're not an A-list dev. Of what little I played here (my interest sputtered out in the forest after the village elder told me that monsters are attacking or something and some guy tells me there's ancient dark magic about to take over the world), storywise, Enelysion reminded me a lot of the 2007 update of Dawning of a Dragon's Valor that I was working on when I was about 16. It's nothing spectacular and you could definitely do better.

I'm not sure whether it's the higher resolution or what, but people tend to be a lot more forgiving of RMVX's mapping, even when there are glaring issues. I'm not sure who you've inspired, but going off of this, I can pinpoint at least a few areas where you could have made considerable improvements. The first two that come to mind are:

• The cross is a monument, not a hood ornament. It belongs on the ground.
• Immediately to the left of the first point, the fence cuts off instead of wrapping back around to the wall of the building. Really, this section should be moved one whole tile up.

I promise you've got a long way to go. There were instances where taller doors were used than were necessary with a very clear split in the doorway when they're open, and where including events to limit passability would bring out the realism of a map (you can completely ignore the stairs inside the church).

You can consult people to get their voice on it so that things like these are ironed out and the true worth of the game shines through. This is what I recommend going forward with Tristian, while leaving Enelysion alone. You've already made the game, don't allow yourself to get stuck in the loop of constantly remaking the same product. Take this from someone who's been working on their own flagship game on-and-off since 2005.
author=Corfaisus
Pom Gets Wi-Fi has a 3.5 star rating over 13 reviews with 168k downloads, doesn't mean it's good.
author=Corfaisus
It's pretty universally accepted that the first game was a whole star rating better than the second, despite the developer's efforts to branch out.

So... star ratings don't matter, except when they do? It's rather inconsistent logic, to say the least. Anyway, haven't played Pom, and probably never will, so I cannot comment on its quality. However, its stats do show it has been very, very successful at finding a reasonably grateful target audience, which is more than what can be said for a whole lot of projects on here.

author=Corfaisus
People who meet success early on plateau earlier than others because they're never forced to keep reaching; it's a tragic shame, really.

True, in a way, but few rules are void of exceptions. Scorcese met success quite early in his career, yet he managed to create many good and create films ever since, even as directors like Ridley Scott have basically lost it by now. In a way, being aware of one's fallibility often tends to be the best safeguard here. Pixar is another great example from the film world (even though I'm one of 10 people on the planet who doesn't like Up).

I've read last year's book by their founder recently (who is now Disney's CEO, and was responsible for a lot of their dramatic post-2010 ascent.) and he spends a lot of it on describing how he's seen companies swiftly rise and fall in the Silicon Valley back when he worked for Steve Jobs, and how that experience shaped all of his leadership ever since. It's called Creativity, Inc and I do advise you to check it out.

author=Corfaisus
Trust me, you're not an A-list dev. Of what little I played here (my interest sputtered out in the forest after the village elder told me that monsters are attacking or something and some guy tells me there's ancient dark magic about to take over the world), storywise, Enelysion reminded me a lot of the 2007 update of Dawning of a Dragon's Valor that I was working on when I was about 16. It's nothing spectacular and you could definitely do better.

I can see your point re. storyline, but "trust me, you're not an A-list dev" is not particularly helpful without actually knowing which people you consider to be A-list devs. A comparison to a game that's not even available on this site is also null and void, even though I can see the broad point you're making about "ancient evil" et al. (Although I haven't played Enelysion yet, so I'll have to take it on faith.) Now,

author=Luchino
Since Enelysion feels so much closer to a traditional JRPG, it tends to cater for a larger demographic than Tristian, which focuses more on political drama. And the fact that Laine looks a bit like Lightning probably makes her more popular than Tristy by default

In my experience, that reasoning is bullshit. It is the same line of reasoning that led nearly all publishers to add more action-shooter elements to established franchises or to (re)start their own generic shooters like Medal of Honor or Brothers in Arms. They were looking at the meteoric rise of COD circa 2008-2012, and thought that catering more to their demographic would be a good idea. In case people have forgotten, it has only led to failure and plummeting sales for previously successful franchises like Dead Space. Spec Ops: The Line, the one bright spot of the era, sold poorly at first because it was marketed as a generic shooter, and only found success once people learned of its twist and the truly distinct narrative structure.

Getting back on topic, the aforementioned Pom + Wi-fi is the most downloaded game on here, as we all know, a success that should be impossible by your reasoning since it doesn't cater to the traditional JRPG demographic at all. The most successful commercial RPGMaker games on Steam are To The Moon, which lies very far from most established game plots, and Lisa "The painful", a JRPG in a very dark, nihilistic world with grey-and-black morality and lots of unsavory things, which also lies very far from typical JRPG demographic. And of course, Love And War is very political and has more reviews, same rating and a similar download number as Enelysion does.

I could go on, but I think you already get the idea. In all, finding a niche you like and then developing it out so that it will attract people on its own is far more preferable to starting somewhere generic and then thinking how to make it more distinct (unless you're explicitly doing it for retro appeal, re. Hero's Realm, and that's not a lighting that strikes twice.)

As for the titular question... It's tempting to join others in saying no, but I'm one of those people who tends to tends look at nearly every game as possible 5-star then work down, and so I do like Redux versions if I feel that they're truly complete, and don't leave much else to add (which is also why all the remasters that change little-to-nothing really frustrate me). Thus, I would support one (unless I play the game after Tristan's demo and find it 5-star, which isn't very likely), but after Tristian, because releasing another game will also give new experience and affect your design perspective significantly, resulting in a better, more "complete" Redux then if you were to do it now.

Anyway, that's my perspective on it.
CashmereCat
Self-proclaimed Puzzle Snob
11638
I agree with what NTC3 said, on most points. Except that I wouldn't remake a game, I'd just start a new one, just because I can't imagine spending such a long time revamping a game only to have a slight chance it'll be better than the original, i.e. some changes could make it worse. I'd rather just create a new game and call what's finished "finished".
Ronove
More like Misao Stealing Prince
2863
The game's done. Leave it alone. Let it stand as a testament of your first game. It's not perfect but that's just fine. I'm sure you have many other ideas that want to come out anyway. If you keep trying to remake an old game, you become stuck in a rut not creating anything new and that gets boring very fast. So leave this game well enough alone and just keep using what you learned here to make better games.
Yes, I canned the idea of the a remake a while ago. I'm focusing on Tristian now, anyway ( which is supposed to be a whole lot better ).
Ronove
More like Misao Stealing Prince
2863
I'M SORRY I was catching up on my notices and totally did not look at dates. I can't wait to try out Tristian! :D
Haha, I don't blame you. You were gone for quite a while. ^^
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