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Sacred Reviews: War of Two Worlds

Introduction

"War of Two Worlds" is an epic length RPG developed by MarkC that features a lot of the usual cliches found in RPGs the world over. Though sadly, this game really started to test my patience after a while since it's poorly thought out and designed in a lot of places. In fact, I was getting so angry at this game that I honestly found it struggle to finish my 80 part Let's Play series for this game and was forced to spend time away from this game every now and again in order to cool off a bit.

Story
Strengths

To start on a more positive note for this aspect of the game, "War of Two Worlds" devotes a lot of time to fleshing out the backstory to it's world as well as fleshing out its characters early on. This is something that I can definitely appreciate and wish taht other developers would actually do. After all, it's always not to see a world that has a fleshed out feel to it. As if the developer sat down and actually plotted out the history of the game world and how the initial setting for the game came to be. In other words, developers should definitely set a little time aside to fleshing out the lore behind their worlds and putting bits and pieces of them on books you can read on bookshelves or have wise old sages you can interact with to learn about ancient myths or legendary weapons. And while "War of Two Worlds" doesn't have readable books on its shelves you can pick up an assortment of books in the game and take them to your local library in order to read them.



Another nice aspect of this game is that it actually takes time to explain what happened to some of the minor characters in the game in the epilogue. This is genuinely nice touch that I don't see that often. After all, it makes it seem like other characters actually matter and gives you reason to interact with characters in the game in order to find out what ultimately happened to them. Though, I did wish this section of the epilogue didn't include reminders about characters who clearly died on screen or whose deaths were explicitly stated during cut scenes. I'm looking at you Leon and Granheim.




Sadly, my thoughts on the rest of the story only go downhill from here.

Weaknesses

If I had to pick "War of Two Worlds" biggest narrative problem it's that the game features some of the worst pacing I've ever seen in a game of this length. And, I've played a lot of lengthy RPGs over the years like "Wild Arms 5". As it stands I'm willing to overlook this issue a bit in the beginning because the developer is devoting time to giving the player backstory and character building, but as the game drags on it starts to feel like the developer is merely looking for anything and everything he can throw in the players way in order to make this game as long as possible. A good example of this in my opinion is that when you defeat Drake at the top of Heaven's Tower he reveals that he still has a divine soul despite having been stripped of his god powers. In my opinion, this plot decision only serves to create a massive plot hole that exists to pad the game out for another three hours or so. And there are definitely other areas of the game that could do with some trimming as well.

Another problem generated by the narrative excess at points is excessive backtracking. This can be especially true near the beginning and middle of the game. Near the beginning of the game you'll be tasked with exploring the same forest about half a dozen times over the course of a couple hours and while I'm exaggerating a bit with that number, it's not as far off as you might think. And near the middle of the game you'll be constantly tasked with working on getting an airship up and running only to be called back to Dracogaia in order to deal with every little problem that creeps up. In fact, I distinctly remember being called back to deal with some minor bandits, an issue that you'd think a guild whose strength is comparable to some kingdom's armies would be able to deal with on their own.


Another plot element that throws a wrench into the cogs is Siddon. Siddon is an absolute scumbbag whose insertion into the party feels entirely forced for no discernible reason. After all, Griffit already wields the same element as Siddon and we already have a character on a redemption arc in the form of Sarisa, the main antagonist's wife.

That aside, I do understand why MarkC wanted to give Siddon a redemption arc. The problem is that MarkC doesn't make Siddon's change from the villains side to the heroes very convincing. And even if it was convincing I wouldn't want Siddon around because of the following issues:

1) The game heavily implies that Siddon sexually harassed Sarisa. A problem that only gets worse when the game seems to suggest that Siddon would have gone even further if someone else hadn't stepped in.

2) Siddon is well known for doing everything and anything he can think off in order to get back into Drake's good graces. This leads to Siddon stealing one of the many keys that Drake will need in order to become a god.

3) Siddon actively challenges the player to several fights and if you lose it's game over. Even when one of those fights is meant to be a friendly sparring match. A fact, which leads me to the belief that Siddon is more then happy to kil This gives the player a pretty strong nudge towards the idea that when Siddon is fighting Kersh and the gang. He's aiming to kill.

As it stands, I really think Siddon needs to be punished for his actions before he can be forgiven. And while I imagine some would argue that's not fair considering I'm not calling for Sarisa to get the same treatment. I'm more willing to be lenient with Sarisa because she genuinely comes off as a passive actor who had no real say in her husbands actions, and when she did switch sides she did so in a very clear and obvious way by freeing Drake's many prisoners.

Gameplay

On the surface "War of Two Worlds" seems to feature your standard active time battle system with random encounters, but once you lift the cover your left with a game that really suffers in a lot of places in my opinion. For starters the game includes not one but two entirely pointless stats. These stats are mind (intelligence) and defense. The mind stat is entirely pointless because your spell damage is entirely related to the level of your spell. As such, your ultimate spell will still only deal out around 2,000 points of damage whether your intelligence was 5 or it was 999. Nor does this stat offer up any sort of protection against spells either. So it doesn't serve any purpose offensively or defensively. This same issue also plagues the defense stat to a certain extent because all of your melee attacks in this game deal defense ignoring damage. As such, your melee attacks will do just as much damage on a low level enemy as they will on the final boss.

This problem only gets worse in my opinion when you realize that the game repeatedly offers the player items that boost their intelligence and defense stat, but these boosts don't actually do anything for the player as I've established. As such, it feels like MarkC is simply mocking the player for being dumb enough to think that their intelligence or defense even matters in this game.

Another thing that bugs me is that melee attacks cap out at around 600 points of damage in this game. As such you'll spend most of your time in the late game slinging around your ultimate spells simply because they deal a little bit over three times the damage.

Graphics & Sound

On the graphical and sound side of things the "War of Two Worlds" borrows heavily from old SNES titles. A factoid, that only bugs me as much as it does because MarkC doesn't list which games he took assets from at the end of the game. Though, I suppose other members of the community would consider this a practice so common that it isn't even worth bringing up.

Bugs

If you interact with this sign from the side it causes the game to lock up after the cut scene. Thankfully, this can be avoided if you read it from the front, but the fact that this bug exists at all really gets under my skin. Since, it cost me around 30 minutes of progress.

Another annoying bug in this game can be found if you get Mia up to level 99. This will cause her to unlock her ultimate spell a powerful gravity attack. This is a bug because the game requires you to track down the gravity orb in order to gain access to gravity magic after the battle with Drake in Heaven's Tower. And this bug can lead to a lot of frustration if you have to listen to the party talk at length about the need for gravity magic when you already have access to it.

Conclusion

"War of Two Worlds" is a game that starts out fine, but gets worse and worse as you progress because it's apparent flaws become more and more obvious as you go on. So much so, that they begin to make playing this game feel like a chore rather then a fun experience. As such, I really can't recommend this game.

Posts

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unity
You're magical to me.
12275
This thread is locked for now. Don't insult each other and please chill.

Please remember that if you disagree with a review you're completely allowed to submit your own review. More reviews for potential players is always going to be more useful.
Reading so far.. you are all very emotionally invested and it makes sense.

So far I understand Kyle is very conscious of the fact that men do face a lot of often questionable trouble when it comes to sexual harassment, and being framed is a real fear many professions face (say, for male teachers).

It still is a fact that a lot of real sexual harassment and rape does happen and that it deserves our support and should not be excused or be downplayed. The loss of trust is real regardless of what happened (the char in question was "safe", yes, nothing happened physically. Emotionally a lot can still change). That I would like to see given more time too - both to make it clear, and to ease said character into the happenings. (completely ignoring the legal facets of this) and a lot of people seem to agree with that notion.
One side does NOT undermine the other.

Please calm down and continue this later. I reported and hope this can be put on ice for a while.
Can we get this thread locked and this toxic garbage removed? :/

This is supposed to be a comment section for a review, not a shit flinging contest.
author=pianotm
Because you are clearly taking criticism of the game personally.


No, I just took your insults personally, because I had previously thought you were a decent person.

author=pianotm
Please enumerate my insults so that I can properly apologize.


"Ass", "douchebaggery", "cognitive Dissonance". I didn't say anything of this quality to you or thesacredlobo, and I'm even too tired to consider his posts, because I'm too occupied with your nonsense. Of course, your posts will remain untouched. The incompetent watchdogs here will sure give you the usual VIP treatment.

author=pianotm
Entitlement. We're really not interested in your first world problems.


Talk for yourself, Mr. majestic plural. This site is all about first world problems anyway. Furthermore, I really believe that women who can't overcome they (probably) have nearly been raped (probably without having been touched at all) count as first world problems, too.

author=pianotm
I notice you didn't take issue with me giving the game a good review even though I only played three to four hours of it, but you showed up in direct response to thesacredlobo's first comment on the thread. Maybe it's just coincidence, but it seems you have a personal issue with thesacredlobo. I hardly know anything about the game, yet you didn't have a single criticism for my "failure". Is your cognitive dissonance usually this strong?


What exactly gave you the impression that I even bothered to read your review? Is your self-conceit usually this strong? If you really want to know: Yes, you are worse in every way compared to thesacredlobo.

author=pianotm
What alarms me isn't actually that you defend Siddon. You actually sound rapey when you defend him and many of your early defenses on the thread from my review suggest that Siddon should actually be allowed.


I provocatively asked if someone who saves the world should be allowed to rape women. This question doesn't apply to real life, since we usually don't see any world-saving here. Nevertheless, I'm sure that all men except for you are potential rapists, but lack text comprehension.

author=pianotm
You're speaking to a widower whose wife died in his arms. I know you're not actually supposed to instantly know that, but by all means, please explain the feelings of women to a man who married a woman who was forced to live with her rapist, lost custody of her son to him, and then had to flee the state she lived in because the man was threatening her, who then couldn't get an ambulance to her in time to stop her lungs collapsing during an asthma attack.


I'm sorry for your loss. Your personal history seems to be the reason why your posts are emotionally charged.

author=pianotm
You are conflating what thesacredlobo said. From what I understand, Siddon behaved in this fashion and had absolutely no penance, was allowed to join the party, and then provided nothing of substance to even justify his presence, and in the process, created a conflict of interest within the party. Why in the world would you defend this? It makes Siddon a sociopath, the party a gang of idiots, and you seem to think this is perfectly okay? It's okay for them to just forget how this guy behaved with no reason given.


No penance? Siddon lost everything he worked so hard for because of the Sarisa incident. In contrast to that, Sarisa married rich (even though she claims she didn't know who Drake was) and tolerated Drake's endeavors for years. The question we should really ask is: Why should the former wife of the main enemy be treated differently? Yes, she tries to better herself in a more obvious way than Siddon, but following your logic, she still shouldn't be allowed to join the party. Nevertheless, every man (and woman) is needed during the resource-intensive battles and dungeons, even a "potential rapist". If Siddon is beyond redemption, then we all are. You really don't know anything about forgiveness. Let me take the first step and forgive you for your rude behavior towards me.

author=pianotm
I am not even going to justify this with an answer because you absolutely have no idea if she wouldn't have resisted. Point in fact, you clearly have no experience with women because if you did, you'd know that when a woman says no, even if she does "want it", she's going to resist.


Do you know this from personal experience? Sorry, I'm clueless, because I don't sleep with women who say no.

author=pianotm
It's still bad game design. Most people DON'T want to be FORCED to visit the same dungeon six times in a fucking hour.


It's a forest that connects the northern and southern half of a continent. I'm really surprised how accustomed people are to the typical contrived JRPG game design that allows/forces the party to visit every place on the world map only once and in classified order. If you don't play a JRPG mainly because of justified backtracking, it's your loss. I don't care, for the world doesn't need you to play a certain or any game.

author=pianotm
A CIVIL WAR IS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR COMPARED TO A WAR THAT HAPPENED SO LONG AGO, MOST CIVILIZATIONS WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO PROVE IT EVEN HAPPENED IN THE ABSENCE OF RELIABLE DOCUMENTATION, A PROBLEM WE ACTUALLY HAVE IN THE REAL, FREAKING WORLD, RELATED TO THE TIME PERIODS BETWEEN THE 3RD AND 11TH CENTURIES. An historical explanation that clearly doesn't understand how human social memory works. CONFLICT AFTER CONFLICT WITH DRAGONS THAT NOBODY REMEMBERS EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE LIVES IN A SOCIETY THAT CLEARLY DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO PERPETRATE SUCH A COVER UP. NO MYTHS EVEN BEYOND THE RUMORS OF SIGHTINGS! I CANNOT RECALL A SINGLE TYRANT BOTH REAL, OR IN A COMPETENT WORK OF FICTION PULLING THAT OFF!


Yes, nothing is more convincing than caps! And guess what: The game's world is only populated by a few hundred people. If you want to enjoy the best possible stories that aren't affected by typical JRPG limitations, you should read books. Did you ever try to develop a game or story of this scope? I know the effort it takes, and I think it's better to give up than to develop one short, mediocre (incomplete) game after another.

author=pianotm
We actually don't know that, and Griffit can still remain Kersh's friend and companion without supporting that decision to protect that egg.


In what kind of fairy tale world do you live? This conflict is definitely on the scale of being able to break friends apart. Griffit's decision to support Kersh even though he disagrees with him on the matter of (not) keeping the egg is supposed to show how mature Griffit is. He's probably more mature than both of us, but honestly: While I still try to "win" this discussion, I'm content with just pissing you off, since pissing me off seems to be your main goal.

author=pianotm
I wrote better trash when I was writing Star Trek fanfics when I was 9-years-old.


Looking at your games, I highly doubt that.
This is a bit vague to go on, you know which youtoob video has that scene?
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
28444
I'm not the developer. How can any sane person come to this stupid conclusion?

Because you are clearly taking criticism of the game personally.

And that justifies your insults towards me?

Please enumerate my insults so that I can properly apologize.

It should be his ambition to service all potential readers of his reviews. Even if he had that ambition, he clearly failed. Am I not allowed to state this simple fact?

Entitlement. We're really not interested in your first world problems. I notice you didn't take issue with me giving the game a good review even though I only played three to four hours of it, but you showed up in direct response to thesacredlobo's first comment on the thread. Maybe it's just coincidence, but it seems you have a personal issue with thesacredlobo. I hardly know anything about the game, yet you didn't have a single criticism for my "failure". Is your cognitive dissonance usually this strong?

I already did. There isn't any definite proof that he even touched Sarisa. This isn't my reason to defend him, I'm just saying he isn't as evil/bad as you all claim.

And yet in just four screencaps, thesacredlobo is able to present us with a clear conflict of interest existing within the party.

Why should I - or anyone at all - care?

You're right. What alarms me isn't actually that you defend Siddon. You actually sound rapey when you defend him and many of your early defenses on the thread from my review suggest that Siddon should actually be allowed.

Your post is inconsistent, you can't even make up your mind if you think Siddon is a rapist or a potential rapist. It's probably all the same to you anyway.

And you're so busy looking to sink your claws into me, that you either fail to notice that this is actually quote from thesacredlobo's post on my review thread, or you're ignoring that fact to make me look bad. Which is it?

Do you have any real life experience when it comes to women? Their feelings can sometimes be complex. Maybe Sarisa wouldn't have struggled against Siddon's advances, but still would have lost her trust in him, because he tried to take advantage of the situation and her conflicted feelings.

You're speaking to a widower whose wife died in his arms. I know you're not actually supposed to instantly know that, but by all means, please explain the feelings of women to a man who married a woman who was forced to live with her rapist, lost custody of her son to him, and then had to flee the state she lived in because the man was threatening her, who then couldn't get an ambulance to her in time to stop her lungs collapsing during an asthma attack.


Let me help you. You say: Someone who possibly tried (or possibly didn't try to) sexually offend a woman is the greatest evil on earth. I say: Yes, Siddon shouldn't have behaved that way, but nothing really happened, so calm down. Why are we even talking about Siddon with regard to a game in which one of the antagonists kills his own parents?

You are conflating what thesacredlobo said. From what I understand, Siddon behaved in this fashion and had absolutely no penance, was allowed to join the party, and then provided nothing of substance to even justify his presence, and in the process, created a conflict of interest within the party. Why in the world would you defend this? It makes Siddon a sociopath, the party a gang of idiots, and you seem to think this is perfectly okay? It's okay for them to just forget how this guy behaved with no reason given.

If Sarisa hadn't struggled against Siddon's advances despite not liking them, then Siddon wouldn't have been considered a sex offender in many constitutional states. Yes, even law experts would debate for hours if this is attempted rape or not, and it would still depend on the individual circumstances and the country's law. Who knows, maybe rape isn't even a crime in the game's world.

I am not even going to justify this with an answer because you absolutely have no idea if she wouldn't have resisted. Point in fact, you clearly have no experience with women because if you did, you'd know that when a woman says no, even if she does "want it", she's going to resist.

Which part of "structurally induced" don't you understand? The way the world map is structured, it makes perfect sense that the party has to go back and forth between already visited locations. It's just different game design, not necessarily bad. I even prever this kind of game design to one which doesn't offer any incentive to visit a location for a second time later.

Good for you! It's still bad game design. Most people DON'T want to be FORCED to visit the same dungeon six times in a fucking hour.

How many games from this site did you play? It can't be that many if you don't see that War of Two Worlds offers comparatively (!) solid writing. Of course, it isn't a writing masterpiece either, but it's still better in this regard than 90 % of the others games on this site.

Tells entire plot lines that makes absolutely no sense. Fails to explain itself in a timely fashion. A story line that is heavily contrived and drags from the start. A dating system that clearly doesn't understand how time works. A CIVIL WAR IS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR COMPARED TO A WAR THAT HAPPENED SO LONG AGO, MOST CIVILIZATIONS WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO PROVE IT EVEN HAPPENED IN THE ABSENCE OF RELIABLE DOCUMENTATION, A PROBLEM WE ACTUALLY HAVE IN THE REAL, FREAKING WORLD, RELATED TO THE TIME PERIODS BETWEEN THE 3RD AND 11TH CENTURIES. An historical explanation that clearly doesn't understand how human social memory works. CONFLICT AFTER CONFLICT WITH DRAGONS THAT NOBODY REMEMBERS EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE LIVES IN A SOCIETY THAT CLEARLY DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO PERPETRATE SUCH A COVER UP. NO MYTHS EVEN BEYOND THE RUMORS OF SIGHTINGS! I CANNOT RECALL A SINGLE TYRANT BOTH REAL, OR IN A COMPETENT WORK OF FICTION PULLING THAT OFF! A MacGuffin that just sits there doing nothing for god only knows how long. The only thing this story does successfully is make the characters likeable and make the motivations for at least the inciting incident believable. After all, bets have led to worse things than the discovery of dragon eggs, and basic honor is a perfectly fine reason to protect one. In fact, Kersh is the only character that remains consistent with the internal rules of the universe. Unfortunately, everything around him focuses on his internal consistency that it completely ignores the internal consistency of the world around it. There is no character driven conflict! All of the conflict is external, at least in the portion played. There was the opportunity for Griffit to stand firm and refuse to support Kersh's decision to protect the egg. This is a lost opportunity. It can be argued that it's unnecessary to do so since we "know" that Griffit is going to eventually support Kersh, but you know what? We actually don't know that, and Griffit can still remain Kersh's friend and companion without supporting that decision to protect that egg.

Then there's the constant repetition in the dialogue. Repeating a point so that people memorize it is something salesmen do. It's very common for this game to present a line, immediately present the same point, only said a slightly different way, and then to do it a third time, only to move on and come back to that point. It's not a phone number. I'm not ordering pizza! This doesn't just happen a couple of times. It happens in almost every cutscene across multiple topics of discussion. As for the point where it fails to explain itself in a timely fashion, it's nice that it does explain story elements, but when you open gaping plot holes, many of which defy common sense, you need to make them make sense now. If the people in your world believe something and you can't come up with a reason beyond "that's the way things are", then you are a lazy writer. The writing is amateur and incompetent. I wrote better trash when I was writing Star Trek fanfics when I was 9-years-old.

Among the saving graces are that the story is interesting and most of the characters likeable. It's not intolerable, and it's not actually bad, but to say it's competent writing is to willfully ignore the very basic principles of good writing. The story is good. The writing is terrible. Deal with it.

Quit telling me what to quit.

You took offense to a review over a game because you didn't like the score and you started insulting the reviewer without provocation. You're becoming less and less agreeable over the course of this thread. I'm just predicting the future and trying to prevent it, but hey, you do you.

Visitorsfromdreams' post proves that the rape bullshit already succeeded. Some people are just stupid, and some people really should know better.

Yeah, you really need to not say things like this.
You mean we are in here arguing about a 15 year old game?

Why!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Now im the embarrassed one for not doing my research. What a waste of everyones time.
The quotes straight from the game make it sound as though he definitely intended to go further with or without her consent - and the fact that that ended up breaking trust between them shows that she trusted he wouldn't do such a thing, in other words, that she would have said no. That means that while he isn't actually a rapist, he definitely intended to do more if a man hadn't stepped in to stop him before it got to that point, and thus potential rapist is a pretty good descriptor for the situation, especially when you look at his lack of contrition in response to the discussion about it.

All that aside - you all know better by now not to insult each other, so put a cap on it and go cool down if you get heated in the middle of a discussion.



Also, I totally disagree that anyone should have to play a game to completion just to write a review, nor should they write reviews solely to adhere to what other people want to see. Please do not start saying that reviews only count if the reviewer plays the game a specific way, because that is monumentally dumb.

People have lives and over 60 hours is more than enough time spent on a 15 year old RM game that is full of issues and problems that come from being an old-ass game. (And there are a lot. Slow walk/text speed, bad balancing due to the engine issues as well as the 'ideas' of what was 'good' back in the day (we've learned better) and map aesthetic... all things that can count against an old game.)
Frogge
I wanna marry ALL the boys!! And Donna is a meanc
18309
author=thesacredlobo
To summarize, you're clearly biased, which ruins your review as much as the game's flaws ruined your enjoyment.
A review by its very nature is someone giving their opinion. As such, it was always going to be biased.


I don't think that's what they meant.

Without reading the review itself and only your comments on here and piano's review, (not my thoughts, just trying to explain theirs) I think what they meant is that you really got stuck on the aspect of how there is an attempted rape scene and it probably ruined your view of the entire game, and that you probably would've given it something higher if not for that one little thing.

Which is something I can totally understand, for the record. When I originally reviewed Desert Nightmare I gave it two stars because literally just one scene near the end pissed me off for being too predictable. Upon replaying it I found that there was a lot to enjoy if I just looked past that one scene. I think you could definetly call that bias.

Then again, you said a lot on piano's review about actual aspects of the game you didn't like and they were very valid complaints from what I remember, so I don't expect that you would have given this game a very high score anyway, but I do think you would have enjoyed it more if you could just look past it.

No judging here though. Once again, it's something I've done in the past and also something I can respect.

author=pianotm
Man, this guy's so butthurt, I'd swear he's the developer.
I'm not the developer. How can any sane person come to this stupid conclusion?


As weird as it sounds, it's happened in the past.
It should be his ambition to service all potential readers of his reviews.


Why should it be my ambition to include information in a review that I don't include pertinent? And why does my review necessarily have to satisfy you? The only goal of a review in my opinion should to be to satisfy the person that wrote it.

Your post is inconsistent, you can't even make up your mind if you think Siddon is a rapist or a potential rapist. It's probably all the same to you anyway.


The only thing I get from your constant attempts to defend Siddon on this point is that your not willing to read between the lines when it comes to Sarisa's comments to Siddon about what he did. And the player is definitely left with the implication that Sarisa thinks Siddon would have tried something if Granhiem hadn't stepped in.

If anything you should be complaining to MarkC for leaving this section of the game so needlessly vague. After all, it was his decision to have Sarisa discuss Siddon's actions the way he did. And it's her comments that imply she was of the opinion that Siddon would have forced her to do something she didn't want to do if Granhiem hadn't stepped in.

Why are we even talking about Siddon with regard to a game in which one of the antagonists kills his own parents?


Because Granhiem doesn't get a redemption arc in this game. He's never presented as anything other then a power hungry villain whose willing to kill anyone and everyone that gets in his way. As such, there isn't anything to really discuss about him. Or are you going to try and argue that Granhiem actually has hidden depths to his character that I didn't notice?

It's just different game design, not necessarily bad.


And it's pretty clear that many other people in this comment section disagree with you on that.
Visitorsfromdreams' post proves that the rape bullshit already succeeded. Some people are just stupid, and some people really should know better.


Ill be real with you, the fact the game is like 60-70 hours long (no game needs to be that long, if your games story cant be told in 3 - 4 hours then you done fucked up son, rest of that playtime is filler) and has started up this lame of a debate about character motives and other shit, that's the real reason I don't want to play it.

This comment section is one of the most embarrassing loads of ass I have ever seen on this site.

On a side note: Backtracking is fine in games where a characters moveset diversifies, thats why the Metroid formula is so popular, it allows you to explore old areas in new ways. Backtracking in a game genre that consists entirely of walking and mashing the X button, thats bad design unless those previous areas have been completely reworked like OFF did once you cleared each zone. Putting in warp points to speed up traversal is a good trick too. This shit aint rocket science.
author=pianotm
Man, this guy's so butthurt, I'd swear he's the developer.


I'm not the developer. How can any sane person come to this stupid conclusion?

author=pianotm
Sorry. I agree with thesacredlobo and I definitely don't agree with you. I don't see 140 reviews from you, but I see a lot of snide, confrontational comments from you towards thesacredlobo, who is putting up with you.


And that justifies your insults towards me?

author=pianotm
He's played 70+ hours. Are you really demanding that someone tear into every corner of a game they're not enjoying and continue the length of the review? People have a life, and they're not here to service you.


It should be his ambition to service all potential readers of his reviews. Even if he had that ambition, he clearly failed. Am I not allowed to state this simple fact?


author=pianotm
Please explain why you're defending Siddon.


I already did. There isn't any definite proof that he even touched Sarisa. This isn't my reason to defend him, I'm just saying he isn't as evil/bad as you all claim.

author=pianotm
Your defense of Siddon alarms and disturbs me.


Why should I - or anyone at all - care?

author=pianotm
It's pretty clear from Sarisa's conversation about this topic with Siddon after he joins up that these advances weren't appreciated. And, while saying he's a potential rapist might be going a bit too far. Reducing Siddon's crimes down to sexual harassment doesn't make him that much better in my opinion.


Your post is inconsistent, you can't even make up your mind if you think Siddon is a rapist or a potential rapist. It's probably all the same to you anyway.

author=pianotm
Now, this is a leap in logic, especially since we clearly see that Sarisa has lost trust in Siddon because of these advances she wouldn't have struggled against. But please, continue justifying why attempted rape is okay.


Do you have any real life experience when it comes to women? Their feelings can sometimes be complex. Maybe Sarisa wouldn't have struggled against Siddon's advances, but still would have lost her trust in him, because he tried to take advantage of the situation and her conflicted feelings.

author=pianotm
Basically: Siddon didn't do anything wrong! But I still think he's an ass! Also, he tried to sleep with a woman who definitely said no, but it's okay because she wouldn't have resisted, a statement that I absolutely cannot support, so therefore, he's not a sex offender. Do I have that right?


Let me help you. You say: Someone who possibly tried (or possibly didn't try to) sexually offend a woman is the greatest evil on earth. I say: Yes, Siddon shouldn't have behaved that way, but nothing really happened, so calm down. Why are we even talking about Siddon with regard to a game in which one of the antagonists kills his own parents?

author=pianotm
Essentially, your whole argument seems to be "It can't be attempted rape, because if he had succeeded, she would have liked it".


If Sarisa hadn't struggled against Siddon's advances despite not liking them, then Siddon wouldn't have been considered a sex offender in many constitutional states. Yes, even law experts would debate for hours if this is attempted rape or not, and it would still depend on the individual circumstances and the country's law. Who knows, maybe rape isn't even a crime in the game's world.

author=pianotm
This is the most absurd bit of bullshit I've ever read, and I'm on a gaming site. So many Nintendo and Super Nintendo era titles managed to make good JRPGs without a ridiculous amount of backtracking. You don't have to do a single dungeon twice in Dragon Quest. Doing dungeons twice in Final Fantasy is only ever optional. And many dungeons, you don't even have to do once. This game shoved that damned forest down my throat so much in the first two hours I wanted to throw up! Quit defending bad game design.


Which part of "structurally induced" don't you understand? The way the world map is structured, it makes perfect sense that the party has to go back and forth between already visited locations. It's just different game design, not necessarily bad. I even prever this kind of game design to one which doesn't offer any incentive to visit a location for a second time later.

author=pianotm
Bad writing is bad writing, and whether you like or hate the game, you can't get around the fact that the writing in this game is plain incompetent! And what kind of "heroes" get to make that judgement?


How many games from this site did you play? It can't be that many if you don't see that War of Two Worlds offers comparatively (!) solid writing. Of course, it isn't a writing masterpiece either, but it's still better in this regard than 90 % of the others games on this site.

author=pianotm
And this. This is the comment that made me finally respond to your douchebaggery. Quit being an ass.


Quit telling me what to quit.

Visitorsfromdreams' post proves that the rape bullshit already succeeded. Some people are just stupid, and some people really should know better.
He's played 70+ hours.


I'd say I played closer to 60+ hours, but its hard to say with this game considering it doesn't actually include a timestamp with the save file data.

Didn't understand this the first time I read it. Didn't understand it the fourth time I read it.


I think his argument is that Siddon's actions only hastened Drake's rise to power. In other words, Drake would have become the Dragon God regardless of Siddon's actions. Albeit, that's a pretty weak defense. Since, it only works if you assume that Drake was fated to become the Dragon God or assume that the game was required to include the usual plot twist about the main villain obtaining god like powers.

It can't be attempted rape, because if he had succeeded, she would have liked it


The sad part is that idea reminds me a lot of "Hawkman". A game that was pulled from this site before I got a chance to review it.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
28444
Man, this guy's so butthurt, I'd swear he's the developer.

Sorry. I agree with thesacredlobo and I definitely don't agree with you. I don't see 140 reviews from you, but I see a lot of snide, confrontational comments from you towards thesacredlobo, who is putting up with you.


Well, you could at least try to be as objective as possible. Certain (types of) players that don't ascribe as much importance to the game's flaws as you do will enjoy this game especially because of the features you didn't mention and the - therefore - questionable review score.

He's played 70+ hours. Are you really demanding that someone tear into every corner of a game they're not enjoying and continue the length of the review? People have a life, and they're not here to service you.

The story demands that the player gets the orb back in order to have a fighting chance, and the story also demands that Drake gains control of all dragons. In other words: Siddon only sped up proceedings or couldn't cause any harm anyway, which is the reason why he's able to attain most people's forgiveness.

Didn't understand this the first time I read it. Didn't understand it the fourth time I read it. Please explain why you're defending Siddon. What personal connection do you feel that you identify so closely with a two-dimensional traitor and rapist (dude, start being honest. Every character in this game is two-dimensional. Not one of them had more depth than a saucer of milk.)? Please, I'm genuinely curious. Your defense of Siddon alarms and disturbs me.

No need to get personal just because the game doesn't provide detailed information to support whatever it is you assume.

thesacredlobo




It's pretty clear from Sarisa's conversation about this topic with Siddon after he joins up that these advances weren't appreciated. And, while saying he's a potential rapist might be going a bit too far. Reducing Siddon's crimes down to sexual harassment doesn't make him that much better in my opinion.



And Siddon's response to Sarisa telling him that she doesn't think she'll ever be able to trust him again doesn't make things better either.

Siddon is still an egoistical traitor and a scumbag

Well, at least there's something we can agree on.

Speaking of which:

KyleLascar
https://rpgmaker.net/games/3154/reviews/6211/?post=863242#post863242

Another question entirely is if someone who saved the world should be allowed to rape as many women as he wants. Daring question in this metoo age. :D

A very thought provoking question.
"I guess there was some sort of attraction between them (Siddon and Sarisa) and then... ya know..." This means: Sarisa didn't want to cheat on Drake (she was most likely afraid of him even then), but she was attracted to Siddon nonetheless.

Umm...okay. I would call it third party rumor, but I can see making that leap.

If they hadn't been "caught in the act" by Granheim, Sarisa probably wouldn't have struggled against Siddon's advances.

Now, this is a leap in logic, especially since we clearly see that Sarisa has lost trust in Siddon because of these advances she wouldn't have struggled against. But please, continue justifying why attempted rape is okay.

Yes, the game is vague, maybe even contradictory when it comes to this "affair", but the game doesn't provide anything that would support the "attempted rape theory".

Except for the stuff you just mentioned.

Siddon is still an egoistical traitor and a scumbag (he mainly wanted to sleep with Sarisa to get back at Drake, who - after his coronation - demoted Siddon in favor of Granheim), yet he, at least, isn't a sex offender.

Basically: Siddon didn't do anything wrong! But I still think he's an ass! Also, he tried to sleep with a woman who definitely said no, but it's okay because she wouldn't have resisted, a statement that I absolutely cannot support, so therefore, he's not a sex offender. Do I have that right?

Essentially, your whole argument seems to be "It can't be attempted rape, because if he had succeeded, she would have liked it".


If you think a bit of structurally induced backtracking and some seemingly needless padding is equivalent to wasting your time, maybe JRPGs just aren't for you. "No fillers, only killers" is a nearly unattainable ideal.

This is the most absurd bit of bullshit I've ever read, and I'm on a gaming site. So many Nintendo and Super Nintendo era titles managed to make good JRPGs without a ridiculous amount of backtracking. You don't have to do a single dungeon twice in Dragon Quest. Doing dungeons twice in Final Fantasy is only ever optional. And many dungeons, you don't even have to do once. This game shoved that damned forest down my throat so much in the first two hours I wanted to throw up! Quit defending bad game design.

You can't really hold the lack of freedom of choice against a classic old school JRPG from almost 15 years ago.

YES YOU CAN! Bad writing is bad writing, and whether you like or hate the game, you can't get around the fact that the writing in this game is plain incompetent! And what kind of "heroes" get to make that judgement?

Why? Did you fail at crafting Ribbons? :D I didn't watch your let's plays (I don't watch let's plays in general), but I wonder how much of the optional content you actually completed.

And this. This is the comment that made me finally respond to your douchebaggery. Quit being an ass.
Red_Nova
The all around prick
7738
KyleLascar, it seems to me that you're looking at this game from a fundamentally different angle than sacredlobo is. Personally, I think that's a great reason to write a review of your own. If you're worried about people overlooking this game because lobo didn't go through all the details you think are important, then offering your own perspective on the game is the best way to mitigate that risk.

Did you fail at crafting Ribbons?


No. In fact, I crafted four ribbons as well as three auto haste rings.

What really made me start to hate the craft system is that you have to spend way more time then is necessary flipping through menus and the game doesn't offer you the ability to craft multiple copies of an item at a same time. This led to me spending literally hours doing nothing but crafting ruby jewels in order to power-up my characters. In fact, I spent so much time on doing this that two my characters had maximum MP values by the end of the game and Kersh could reach the maximum attack value of 999 without needing to equip his ultimate weapon.

but I wonder how much of the optional content you actually completed.


I found several of the recruitable characters as well as cleared out the arena. I also crafted a few high level items as I mentioned previously.

You can't really hold the lack of freedom of choice against a classic old school JRPG from almost 15 years ago.


It's not the lack of freedom that bugs me. It's the fact that I'm supposed to spare people that commit mass murder and genocide against entire villages of people, but have to utterly crush their mind controlled slaves. The game seems to inherently imply that I should care more about the lives of those that victimize others then I should about their victims.

that has to be killed either way to weaken Drake


That logic really doesn't apply when Drake had already been stripped of his God powers before the fight with Mika even took place. If the game made you kill Mika in a bid to strip Drake of his powers then I'd be okay with it. As it stands, it comes across as entirely pointless.

it's understandable that a 100 years old Balthasar sacrifices himself so that the party can finally damage and defeat the otherwise unstoppable Granheim


The problem with that, is that Granheim still wipes the floor with the party the next time we see him. In fact, it's when Granheim is supposedly serious that his powers at the weakest. Seriously, how does he go from inflicting over 7,000 points of damage on the entire party to doling out less then 1,500?

If you think a bit of structurally induced backtracking and some seemingly needless padding is equivalent to wasting your time, maybe JRPGs just aren't for you.


You do realize your talking to someone whose bread and butter is playing old school JRPGs from the PS2 era right?

My problem with the padding in War of Two Worlds is that it feels unnecessary. It doesn't feel like a natural out growth of the narrative, but a feeble attempt to make the game last as long as possible.

No need to get personal just because the game doesn't provide detailed information to support whatever it is you assume.




I think the game provides more then enough detail to suggest that Siddon definitely stepped across the line with Sarisa. After all, she states that she felt like Siddon would have gone a lot further then simply asking for her to have an affair with him if Granheim hadn't stepped in to stop him.

Siddon only sped up proceedings or couldn't cause any harm anyway, which is the reason why he's able to attain most people's forgiveness.


While I agree that Drake would have gotten his god powers regardless of Siddon's involvement because games like this always require things to get worse before they get better. It also hard to deny that Siddon was willing to do terrible things in order to curry favor with Marnek despite having been banished for years. And, the player is always left to question how many other efforts to stop Marnek did Siddon undermine over the years as well.

we're only talking about your assumption.


But it's a safe assumption to make considering how much of a scumbag that Siddon is and how much Marnek wanted us taken care of by that point in the game.
author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
To summarize, you're clearly biased, which ruins your review as much as the game's flaws ruined your enjoyment.
A review by its very nature is someone giving their opinion. As such, it was always going to be biased.


Well, you could at least try to be as objective as possible. Certain (types of) players that don't ascribe as much importance to the game's flaws as you do will enjoy this game especially because of the features you didn't mention and the - therefore - questionable review score.

author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
He doesn't fight the party with clear intent to kill
Considering if you lose to him its an instant game over. I don't agree with your assessment.


Lost fights in JRPGs usually result in game overs, but not necessarily in the party members' deaths. If Siddon had managed to keep the stolen orb, the party wouldn't have been able to save the world without being killed on the spot. As long as it isn't cleary stated that Siddon kills the party members after winning the fight, we're only talking about your assumption.

author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
the object he stole from the party would have ended up in the hands of the enemy one way or another
He also tried to steal Mia's healing orb and utterly failed at it. And, I'm pretty sure that never did end up back in the enemies hands.


The story demands that the player gets the orb back in order to have a fighting chance, and the story also demands that Drake gains control of all dragons. In other words: Siddon only sped up proceedings or couldn't cause any harm anyway, which is the reason why he's able to attain most people's forgiveness.

author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
the story is rather vague about how much (attempted) sexual harassment is involved
I'm not exactly sure why you keep defending Siddon on this point. Since, your starting to make yourself look like your okay with women being sexual harassed. Especially when we know that Sarisa is unable to truly trust Siddon after what he did to her.


No need to get personal just because the game doesn't provide detailed information to support whatever it is you assume. We only know that he wanted and maybe tried to sleep with Sarisa even though she didn't want this solely because of her marriage to Drake (she was - nonetheless - attracted to Siddon, if Lorelai's discoveries/speculations can be trusted). This alone can be enough to break a person's trust, but we don't know if Siddon even touched her at all. In the end, nothing of significance happened thanks to Granheim spotting them, which is once again the reason why people are able to forgive Siddon. To clarify: I'm not okay with women being sexually harassed, and I still think that Siddon is an asshole, but he just isn't as big an asshole (or sex offender) as you suggest. Even the most enthusiastic metoo fanatic should be able to acknowledge this.

author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
I think the score is too harsh and even inconsistent considering your review history, since you gave even most bare-bones two hours long games you had played at least two full stars.
At least most of those games didn't feel like they were actively trying to waste my time. And, I've given even harsher scores to some games in the past as well.


If you think a bit of structurally induced backtracking and some seemingly needless padding is equivalent to wasting your time, maybe JRPGs just aren't for you. "No fillers, only killers" is a nearly unattainable ideal.

author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
It's misleading that you don't mention the game's (other) features.
I also didn't talk about how I think the game managed to ruin all of Drake's commanding officers either. Or how much I hate the fact that the game forces you to spare Skyler for no apparent reason but requires you to kill Mika.


You can't really hold the lack of freedom of choice against a classic old school JRPG from almost 15 years ago. Furthermore, the game offers sufficient explanation for these events. Skyler was just a misguided little cog in a big wheel. What can and can't be forgiven and the atrocity of needless killing (but also the need to kill if there isn't any other choice) are major themes throughout the story. The need to kill Mika works in conjunction with these themes: Sometimes it's inevitable to kill a foe that trys to kill you and can't be stopped otherwise - even if it's a former (now mind-controlled or brainwashed) ally. While the party members shouldn't sacrifice themselves to preserve one brainwashed animal (that has to be killed either way to weaken Drake), it's understandable that a 100 years old Balthasar sacrifices himself so that the party can finally damage and defeat the otherwise unstoppable Granheim (I definitely would have mentioned the unwinnable boss fights against him in my recent article if I had completed my second playthrough beforehand). Yeah, these events hurt. They wouldn't hurt, though, if you could simply avoid them.

author=thesacredlobo
author=KyleLascar
a simple crafting system
I actually have quite a few complaints about that system.


Why? Did you fail at crafting Ribbons? :D I didn't watch your let's plays (I don't watch let's plays in general), but I wonder how much of the optional content you actually completed.
To summarize, you're clearly biased, which ruins your review as much as the game's flaws ruined your enjoyment.


A review by its very nature is someone giving their opinion. As such, it was always going to be biased.

He doesn't fight the party with clear intent to kill


Considering if you lose to him its an instant game over. I don't agree with your assessment.

the object he stole from the party would have ended up in the hands of the enemy one way or another


He also tried to steal Mia's healing orb and utterly failed at it. And, I'm pretty sure that never did end up back in the enemies hands.

the story is rather vague about how much (attempted) sexual harassment is involved


I'm not exactly sure why you keep defending Siddon on this point. Since, your starting to make yourself look like your okay with women being sexual harassed. Especially when we know that Sarisa is unable to truly trust Siddon after what he did to her.

I think the score is too harsh and even inconsistent considering your review history, since you gave even most bare-bones two hours long games you had played at least two full stars.


At least most of those games didn't feel like they were actively trying to waste my time. And, I've given even harsher scores to some games in the past as well.

Admittedly, learning that the mind stat is irrelevant is a big letdown, but this way battles at least pose a challenge (resource-wise).


That may be true, but it's a byproduct of the game's bad design then because the developer intended the game to be a challenge. And, if it was on purpose then it would have been a good idea to remove any items that permanently raise your mind stat in this game. Since, at least that way it wouldn't have been so obvious that the mind stat has no purpose.

It's misleading that you don't mention the game's (other) features.


I also didn't talk about how I think the game managed to ruin all of Drake's commanding officers either. Or how much I hate the fact that the game forces you to spare Skyler for no apparent reason but requires you to kill Mika.

a simple crafting system


I actually have quite a few complaints about that system.
author=KyleLascar
While your arguments are sound and valid, I think the score is too harsh and even inconsistent considering your review history, since you gave even most bare-bones two hours long games you had played at least two full stars. War of Two Worlds is as old school as it gets when it comes to killing the same monsters for hours in one dungeon, but - compared to other games who rely on this procedure - it's still fun. At least the developer dabbled in worldbuilding and crafting a compelling story, and the player can feel his passion and see how well-wrought most of the game's designs are.

Admittedly, learning that the mind stat is irrelevant is a big letdown, but this way battles at least pose a challenge (resource-wise). It's misleading that you don't mention the game's (other) features. There's a variety of optional areas and side quests (ultimate weapons, colosseum, detective side quest - to name a few) and a simple crafting system. Furthermore, the player can recruit NPCs for his airship. Many of the game's secrets are well-hidden and demand that the player thinks for himself to figure them out. Also, consider that this game was released 2004. It must have been revolutionary at that time. Even nowadays there aren't many noncommercial RPG Maker 2003 JRPGs of this scope that offer more old school fun.

Finally, your review would benefit if you didn't treat Siddon Social-Justice-Warrior-exaggeration-style. Compared to all JRPG bad guys (supposedly) turned good, he's relatively harmless. He doesn't fight the party with clear intent to kill, the object he stole from the party would have ended up in the hands of the enemy one way or another, and the story is rather vague about how much (attempted) sexual harassment is involved. While Siddon doesn't contribute much to the story, he doesn't ruin it in any way.

To summarize, you're clearly biased, which ruins your review as much as the game's flaws ruined your enjoyment.


I haven't played this game or know much more about than what two reviews said, but I know I'd rate a game based on how much I enjoyed it when reviewing, so if I enjoyed a short two hour game a lot it'd probably get a higher score than a long game that I didn't enjoy very much.

But I don't want to suggest that is or isn't the case with this game, and I'm not saying the score should or shouldn't be highered, as I don't know my own experience or thesacredlobo really, just explaining how and why a game can get a lower score than others by anyone.
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