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The great unsorted list of musings

  • Marrend
  • 05/26/2017 01:32 PM
  • 4390 views
There's a number of things I want to talk about, but, let's get a few number of things out of the way.

  • War battles

Tactical large-scale battles are one of the defining points of the Suikoden series. To the best of my knowledge, GTBS might be the only way to go about those kinds of battles. However, if I must be honest, I have zero inclination to use that script again. I dunno. My experiences with it has been rather frustrating. That, and I have no idea how GTBS interacts with everything else I've got!

  • 108 Stars of Destiny

Yes, the current plan is to allow players to recruit 108 characters! Some characters have been more or less set in stone. However, most slots can be altered at will. As of this writing, 12 of those "written in stone" slots are cameos from different games. Of those, most share a certain author (so sue me). However, I'm certainly willing to allow cameos from other games. To this end, I have asked (and received!) unity's permission to include Karuna and Aurelie of Luxaren Allure fame. I kinda feel 15 (or 27 to be ironic) might be a good number, but, one questions oneself where to turn. Maybe... Wyrm Warriors? I'm just thinking out loud on this point.

  • Side-view battle system?

Now, I imagine the expectation here is that I will use some kind of side-view battle system, even if I do not format the battler positions in the exact way that a Suikoden game would. To be perfectly honest, I haven't even thought about that, and have been assuming use of the default battle engine for my script-hacks. Er... welp?

  • Duels

I'm not sure if I'm going to have them in this game. I mean, it's a thing the proper series does, and generally don't occur too often. However, if I do have them, the thought in my head is that I take the unused Duel system from Oracle. Maybe tweak it a bit.

  • Unite attacks

This is a doozy. I may have figured out how a "Rush" command might work/function, but, the "Unite" command is sooooo much more complex! I remember trying to look this up, and maybe seeing some video footage, but, the "how" still eludes me at the moment.

"Rune Unite" attacks are... Darigaaz, where do I even start? I suppose I could refer to Remnants of Isolation?

  • A Quiet Rune, you say?

I've changed some of the properties of the spells, but, for the most part, fans of the series should recognize the names. The Earth and Mother Earth Runes in particular underwent the most significant changes, if only because I've always felt those Runes were not particularly useful. As of this writing, there are no Lightning or Thunder Runes. My reasoning is that specific elemental affinity might not matter at all as much, and there will be other ways to deal damage to single targets via spells.

I kinda want Technique runes to have four different skills to use with differing MP costs. I suppose this makes them act more like their magical counter-parts, though with lower MP requirements.

  • MP costs

There is one thing I want to be absolutely firm on: I'm not doing anything special with MP for this game, despite the fact that the Suikoden series proper divides mana into spell levels. Why? Well, I suppose the best reason I can give is that doing so will make my life easier :P

  • Faces and sprites

As of this moment, I'm relying very heavily on VX Ace's character generator for the character sprites, and Fox Richard's Facemaker for the faces. They were not designed with the other in mind, which limits what I can actually use in varying degrees. I find it exceptionally unfortunate, even aggravating, that the famitsu site is down. If it were still active, that would give me a few more options. Alas...

Posts

Pages: 1
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
How much do icons matter? Like, I think I can set up a Fury Rune either by continuously applying the Berserk status to whoever happens to be bearing one, or set it up as static stat-buffs.


Oh, I could probably include a Killer Rune. That's probably a static increase to CRI, but I'm not sure by how much.
...how about some Legion Saga and Exit Fate cameos~? ;p

Earth rune has more than a few good spells - their buffs are really useful, especially in Suikoden 3 where they were very good for buffing mdef/def for the whole party. And the one-off magic protect was a nice spell too - useful for when an enemy had a hit-all, high-damage spell in their skillset. Granted, better against bosses for the buffs, but earthquake was also good for a kill-all attack against weaker mobs.

If you're looking for the worst elemental rune, Wind only has two decent spells. There's only one instance in the series that Silent Lake comes in handy (Sarah fight in the last dungeon of 3). Wind of Sleep is just terrible most of the time due to the low hit rate of sleep.


That said, Wind could be fixed. Have Wind of Sleep give a much higher rate of success. You could offset this by adding a regen quality to the skill so that you have to work fast or they restore health. Silent Lake is only useful if the success rate of silence it increased by a lot AND if you have groups of dangerous mage-type enemies that can fall prey to it. Otherwise it's pretty damn useless.


Also, you could fix Earth rune easily enough too, if you increased some of the spell effects/success rates. If need be you could meld it with Shield rune, too (unless you have shield rune in your game).


Is the game set in the Suiko world? and if so, which country? I've a good Suikdoen 6 fanfic if you want to check it out (not mine, just a well-written and interesting one that might give you a few ideas).
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
I should really play those games :P

Clay Guardian's probably the only spell I use on the Earth Rune ever. Vengeful Child, well, okay, the straight-up magic resistance is pretty good, but my thought was to turn that into a damage spell? Or, maybe, something that increases the counter-attack rate, and/or cause the target to be Berserk, as well as grant magic resistance? Something like that. Earthquake, man, what is with this spell an it's inability to hit flyers (thus making it situationally useless)!? Final Fantasy does this too, and it always pisses me off! That's definitely gonna be one of the things I'm fixing! I forget what Guardian Earth, or Canopy Defense, do off the top of my head. I... think Guardian Earth removes status conditions, maybe apply some HP healing?

I agree that Wind of Sleep is among the most useless spells ever. I think I want to apply some damage dealing there, at the very least. The Shredding is beautiful. Not gonna mess with it. What about Healing Wind? I feel that fills a similar role to Kindness Drops, so it has it's uses. Funeral Wind is, well, I don't recall that beyond an instant death effect (which probably never hits). Shining Wind, I don't recall at all! I need to UGE me some high-level runes for my Suikoden 4 LP, apparently :P

Silent Lake has always been a "never use this" thing for me because it affects both sides of the equation. You're absolutely right about it being useful for Chris. Darigaaz, that one fight with Sarah and the Amazons was a PAIN. Er, anyway, my plan there was to make it affect only enemies :P

How often do you think negative status effects should be applied? My thought was to go with about 70% of the time as a general rule. I can see going up to 75% or 80%, though. For something like Silent Lake (or high-level spells in general)... 100%?

No, not set in Suiko-world! Sorry!


*Edit: Took some quick notes on spell descriptions from Suikoden 4, and a reference to a Suikoden 5 FAQ concerning Runes/spells.

Darigaaz, Shining Wind both heals allies and damages enemies? Also, I thought Scream revived, and not just Yell? Not quite sure about Yell, actually, as I'm pretty sure it's not, specifically, a "Target: Ally (Dead)" spell?

I also thought Mother Ocean targeted everybody, rather than just one person? That, and I'm more certain it's also not specifically a "Target: Ally (Dead)" spell. I mean, I have zero qualms setting Mother Ocean to target all allies, and I can probably figure out a bad hack workaround for the targeting. Scream might have a similar workaround that Mother Ocean has. Yell... I have no idea.
Yell is a single target (dead ally) spell, so no worries on that front. You could make Scream a bit improved (for some reason I thought it targeted and brought back to life the whole party, if they were dead, else healed a bit, but I'm not 100% sure).

Counter attack buff was always pants because it's conditional on if the enemy attacks you and even then it's only a chance at counter-attacking, not a sure thing. Besides there's already a rune that does that in and of itself (Counter rune).

Maybe Earthquake could be conditional? Outside it won't hit fliers but in caves it drops boulders on their heads? It -does- make sense that it doesn't hit anything that's not on the ground, though. If you have a Winger in the party it probably wouldn't hit them either.

https://www.suikosource.com/runes/
This is a useful source (suikosource is best source).


I honestly forgot about Shining Wind. The only person who had high tier wind magics in my party was Luc and he's pretty squishy so I either never really used him unless I needed a Pale Head rune user or gave him the rune that allowed for overflow damage so that I could laugh maniacally as I bonk people for 999 damage with his staff. XD


When thinking about success rates, consider that there's not really anything that buffs those stats outside of those runes, so be a bit generous. You want people to feel like the skills are useful to use so think about how annoying it would be to use that skill in a battle where it's really needed and what a good rate would be based on that. Honestly, I'd go for the 100% for x turn rate because it allows the player to actually make a strategy and follow it through during battle, rather than scrabbling to look after their asses when a plan backfires (though that can be fun too).

It would depend on how difficult your battles are. If they're very hard people would prefer to have a 100% success rate on buffs and the like so that they can be sure that their careful survival plans work out. If they're more like the typical Suikoden fare (where most battles are easy enough bar one or two boss battles) then you can afford to make it be a chance-based thing instead. But, yeah, whiffing when you need it is never fun.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Suikosource IS the best source <3

The thought in my head was to use Meteor instead of Earthquake. The magic of Meteor would produce chucks of rock to fall on enemies, and hit them regardless of being able to fly or not. It doesn't have to be the size of a planet, FF7, or even be summoned from outer space, FF in general :P

Totally forgot about the Counter Rune! Then again, I'm not sure how much I want to mess with "hidden" stats like that. I'm okay with the Killer Rune, and the Skunk Rune, though? I thought it was Jeane's Charm Rune that reduced targeting rate. Huh.

I'm pretty sure the only spell that applies a buff that doesn't necessarily apply the buff in question is the Berserk effect of Battle Oath on Shield/Bright Shield. Could be wrong. But, yes, I'll want to keep an eye on the success rates on states as a general rule!

*Edit: I've changed my mind on technique runes. They only grant one skill, and that skill does not cost MP to use. However, it will always unbalance/stun the user. Unless you have a Balance Rune ;)

This will probably mean a decrease of MP costs on magic. Lemme think out loud about this for a sec. The sub-thought is that no spell should cost more than 20 MP. That would be a "level 4" spell. So, a good range of costs there might be, 15-20, with "level 3" spells costing 10-15, then 5-10 for "level 2". Which might mean 1-5 MP for a "level 1" spell? Ehhh, maybe I should work backwards.

A level 1 spell, I feel, shouldn't cost more than 3. That might be where level 2's start, and maybe stop at 5. Level 3's can skip a bit, maybe starting at 7 or 8, and going to 12 or 13. Then the 15-20 for level 4's? I think I like that better.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
I've given a few thoughts to music. One thought is to straight-up use RMN's Music Pack. Another thought is to visit the Summoner of Sounds event-page, and get those tracks. Maybe a mix of RMN Music Pack and Summoner of Sounds tracks? Not really sure about anything on this point, save that Tarranon's "Enspiron" (from the RMN Music Pack) feels/sounds like such a great fit for the Imperial Palace!

In other news, I'm re-re-re-re-thinking MP costs :P 1-3 MP is still an acceptable range for level 1 spells, but, I'm thinking more of 5-7 MP for level 2, then 9-11 MP for 3's, then 13-15 MP for 4's?

I'm not 100% sure what the True Plot Rune of this game is yet, but, I've been thinking about the Sun Rune from Suikoden 5. There's no question in my mind that if the Empress of this game has ruled for a millennia, the reason she's been alive that long to begin with is because she's a bearer of a True Rune. Now, I'm not 100% sure how long Arshtat bore the Sun Rune before the events of Suikoden 5 take place, but, I figure it's been, maybe, a couple months. The players gets to see her bouts of madness, and, thankfully, there's a method to escape from that madness. The Empress of this game has borne this True Rune for... well, significantly longer than Arshtat ever did the Sun Rune. So, if this True Rune has a similar property of taking over the bearer's mind, my guess is that the Empress' mind would be completely gone, and is also the main reason why she rules with an iron fist: she IS the Rune, in every way, shape, and form. To question her is to question the Rune. An act of unforgivable audaciousness.

I've also been thinking about the Sovereign Rune from the original Suikoden. The game tells us that it grants immunity to the effects of other Runes. Which is pretty cool in that you don't take damage from spells or abilities, but also sucks since you can't be healed via spells or abilities either. If I recall Suikosource's blat on the Rune, it grants the ability to transform it's owner. However, is that the full extent of this Rune? It might be, but it's hard to say either way. I mean, we only learn of it's existence in Suikoden's final moments, then never hear about it again.

I've also been giving the Rune of Punishment a think, and not just because I'm currently playing Suikoden 4. The Rune of Punishment doesn't come across to me as a Rune that is borne for a particularly long time by a single person. However, it is justice incarnate: it decides if a crime has been committed, and if the perpetrator of that crime be punished, or forgiven. Though, given this game's nature, "forgiveness" is something this world needs more of than "punishment".

Actually, now that I think on it, thanks to Suikoden 5, and the Rune of Condemnation it introduces, the only element that does not have a True Rune associated with it is the holy element. That could be an angle.


I also have to keep in mind that there can be multiple True Runes in this game. It doesn't just have to be the True Plot Rune that the Tenkai Star ultimately obtains :P
Looking over your feature plans, it looks like RPG Maker is going to make this game a lot harder to make than it would otherwise be - seeing as there's so much "default" stuff in the way of the suikoden features you want.

I could script all those features you're talking about in Sphere would take a little while but there's nothing too hard there; but I don't know Ruby/RGSS at all; feeling curious now though... *begins downloading RPG Maker VX Ace trial to take a look at how this stuff works*
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Well, to be perfectly honest, the biggest sticking points are war battles and duels. I don't actually care if this game has side-view battles. Though, that might be a by-product of the hacks that I have done being based on the use of the default front-view system :P Still, it might behoove me to have a look at Battle Engine Symphony via Mechanima.

As for war battles, all I can say there is that I have zero inclination to use GTBS again (seriously, is there something else that does something similar?), so that might be straight-up axed.

*Edit: Though, now that it's mentioned, maybe Unite attacks might be something else to look into, rather than just going with a Rush-like command? I dunno.

*Edit2: It might also be possible I'm biting off more than I can chew. However, I still would like get off this "Alpha Island" of mine, and head towards something at least vaguely fun and playable.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Whew! The Imperial Palace is... more or less mapped out. It's got a splattering of NPCs/stars in it too. Two things I wanna do before I let a demo out.

  • Launch fighters!

I want to let players engage in battles in the upcoming demo for two purposes. One is to show how I've implemented the Rush command. The other is to once again show off that that beautiful EXP-gain screen/code.

  • Gotta catch 'em all!

I currently have 43 out of 108 stars implemented. That means I have 65 unimplemented stars. Why not make it a round 60? I could aim for 50, but, I dunno.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Demo is up! If there is one note of interest, the shops in this demo are set up as "Suiko-shops". However, I've set them up so that all items have been "seen". This includes the items that exist to sort item/equipment types, and are considered "debug" items.

*Edit: I was also compelled to include Stat Stones, which is something I typically avoid. Of course, they are expensive as heck, and there's no way to earn money in this demo, so keep that in mind!
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
The remaining 60 Stars of Destiny are more or less planned out! They are nowhere near implemented yet, but, hey! Progress! I'm more than a bit tapped out, having just completed Final Fantasy XV, and Suikoden 4 within days of each other. Thus, I expect not to get any amount of gammak in any time soon.

My idea at the moment is to implement the graphics in sets of ten. Sprites might be faster for me to do, as it's basically getting/editing/tweaking output from the VX Ace Character generator. Faces tend to take a bit longer to do. Putting the characters physically in the game (as it were) can be a chore. I know there's been a number of times when I tried to write something for a character to say, and my mind just goes completely blank. There's also a number of completely unimplemented services, such as the Bathhouse, the Library, and the Music Hall, just to name a few off the top of my head. Like, I can see using that encyclopedia script from Konae to implement the Library, and maybe hook the detective's search results into that as well?

Though, in all honesty, I really think I should focus on getting character sprites/faces done, if not get them in the game, before I think in more detail about the services. However, I just feel I could just use a well-deserved break!
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Despite wanting a break from gammak, I did a few playtests of this game today. Managed to find some spells I defined incorrectly. I'm pretty sure the EXP-window in this demo can act a bit wonky in that it will not stay on the screen for as long as there are messages to display. This is something I'm still (kinda) looking into. I've also observed that characters do not necessarily become unbalanced/stunned when they use a weapon Rune, and that just baffles me!
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
With a little indirect help from GRS (THANK YOOOOOOOOU!), Mother Ocean, Yell, and Scream aren't totally hacked-together piles of kinda-working code. What's even better is that I'm not using Yanfly's Target Manager!

Shining Wind is still a cluster-Futch of code. As is every spell on the Rune of Condemnation because of the kickbacks. The technique Runes are awkward in that, if they miss, the unbalance effect doesn't apply to the user. I guess it's because it's technically part of the damage effect, and if the damage affect does not apply, it stands to reason that the unbalance effect would not apply either.

The terribad workaround I'm using is to make them "certain hits" rather than "physical attacks". Which means characters can always hit with a technique Rune even if they are blinded. However, the unbalance effect applies after each hit, rather than just the last, but, this is the laziest easiest solution. Which reminds me, I need to test the Balance Rune!

As a sub-note, I've about 20 more characters to go for both sprites and faces! I figure they can be done over the next two days, give or take, and maybe have a new demo out to let players have access to all 108 stars a day (or two) after that. Services like the Library, or Music Hall, might still take some time, however.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Can the experience gained from battle screen, like, stay on the goddamn display until the battle is over? It's amazingly frustrating to me that it doesn't. Though, maybe, it has something to do with the fact that almost always I'm holding down Control (the button I set up for fast-forwarding text via Yanfly's Messaging System) during battle results? I dunno. Too tired (depressed?) at the moment to test that theory.


Though, at least I've more or less confirmed that "cheating" with technique Runes by having a Balance Rune attached to ignore the unbalance effect of technique Runes functions like I thought it would.

*Edit: I think I've started to see a pattern, though I'm not 100% sure. It appears that the exp-window disappears when level-up windows are separate. So, for example, first test-battle, the level-up message just said "<member> reached level 4!", whereas the battle after that it displayed "<member> reached level 5!", the exp-window disappeared, then it displayed "<member> reached level 6!"

Which leads me to think that the reason it's doing that must be somehow related to the function call to Game_Actors.gain_exp in BattleManager.gain_exp.


Or... something.


Bleh.
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