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Dimensions of 2 or 3?

author=Craze
well so much for my input of "go 2d even though your 3d stuff looks better than persona q"


Okay, first off, Persona Q is the greatest.

Second, yeah, we still like the 3D route better (it actually looks great!) it's just that the effort involved is too much more; doing an enemy image might take 2-5 hours for 2D, but a 3D model takes 10+ for the model, and then another 5-10 minimum to rig and animate. That wouldn't be bad if it was just enemies we needed to make, but there's the players and the environment.

If it was a full time job it wouldn't be bad, but time as we get older becomes more and more limited. We could finish this in another 2-3 years in 3D, or a lot sooner in 2D. (Besides, with Krisanna got a job, so her time to work on the 3D was reduced greatly.)

I still wish I could make better environments though; our tileset building skills are lacking at best. : (



author=LouisCyphre
Go with 3D for your characters, certainly.

Beyond that, iterate with things! Consider 3D backdrops, 2D fields, and everything in between. Make trash throwaway projects like "Extreme Fishing" just to test your animation and scenebuilding capabilities. Make absolutely stupid shit every time an idea strikes you. The models' style puts me in mind of Bravely Default, which staged its models on beautiful 2.5D hand-painted backgrounds, which are certainly possible from you too! Explore the realm of royalty-free open-source background images and see if you can find something to your liking. Just... Don't close any doors prematurely, or you're doing your games a disservice.

I think, by the way you're framing your questions, that you know what answers you want to hear.


Yeah, I was really leaning towards 3D, but after nearly a year of working on the engine and resources, the scale of it is measurable and we find our time lacking compared to desire to actually finish this project. : )

We did finish several 3D projects (including a prototype system for this!) to get the hang of it, and have learned a lot, along with how much is left to learn. And the amount of "stupid crap" I've done that isn't released is massive. : )

A 3D RPG isn't outside our range, but the next one we do in it will have that mindset from the start. For Aetherion we just want to actually work on and finish it. : )


NOTE: This actual blog entry was made almost a year ago, I was just replying to open questions now; new blog entry coming soon.

Dimensions of 2 or 3?

While a theme song would be really cool, my fear with having people do resources for me is always that I feel bad if they make something and I don't want to use it! : )

Just an update that we're going back to 2D.

Krisanna got a job, so our time is more limited (job is ironically related to her 3D work...) and frankly the 3D stuff is just too big, mostly doing all the enemies we want.

I've got about 2/3 of the system (including all the new features we blogged about) ported into VXAce now and there'll be a full blog post on it soon!

Dimensions of 2 or 3?

Gosh, it has been a while.

We tested the base engine out on a different project 'In Arcem Miseria' - the combat system wouldn't be like that of course, but the mapping tools and event editor and database, etc, are all working pretty well.

We moved recently again so it's been a bit of hiatus while the artist finishes some commission work. I'm pretty set on the tools, so not we're waiting on some resources and working on a test environment for a demo.

Dimensions of 2 or 3?

I wanted to thank everyone for the input on this! It's been really helpful and we've been asking around through a few different avenues.

Our current plan is to take this commercial in 3D - before we get too far we'll be doing a small demo with a completed environment and some rough combat. If that looks as good as we hope we'll probably continue on the 3D path, otherwise we might switch to 2D if it doesn't look possible or too hard to maintain.

@BurningTyger: If Krisanna took on a normal job her rate of finishing either 2D or 3D artwork would REALLY slow down - to the point that it'd be half a year before we likely even had a working demo.

Dimensions of 2 or 3?

Thanks for the responses so far!

To clarify a few things:
1. We will continue to use the face sets and 2D ART assets:


It's just the spriting that Krisanna isn't good with - we'll still use a lot of 2D artwork and faces for the expressions.

The monster design will remain the same designs, just in 3D:
Cello
Flute



2. 3D IS more work, but not too much more - I'd say probably double or a bit more than 2D? But you gain a lot of advantages from that (expressive movement like jumping, or reeling back in shock, etc.)



@Solitayre: It's not a do or die kind of making money, it's to help pay some extra bills faster and get some money stored up for buying a house. We won't starve if it doesn't sell well (or at all) or anything. : )

vacant sky's failure and the trends of selling rtp to stupid humans

The RM Community has always valued originality in art and design because it's how we differentiate ourselves and establish our superiority.

We hate things that encroach on our territory or are more popular than we are.

We hate seeing other people do something we don't have the guts to do.

We hate people who do it before we think of it.

We're sour when someone's work that doesn't seem as hard or as sacrosanct as our own gets them more acclaim or, worse yet, they "sell out" and get MONEY.

We treat making games as a hobby, but then get mad when others try to turn it into a profession by using skills other than amazing pixel art or mind-bending plots, because to us that is the "important part" of our "art." (Even though every other "art" has the same problem and the commercialization is always heavily criticized, yet remains much more profitable.)

We want to ignore the fact that marketing, management, and other skills are just as important in the field of actually selling a game versus just making one, and it's a bitter pill that reality makes us choke down and then bitch about in our community forums.


It's true that my hackles and anger rise seeing some of those projects get funded, "I've done way more creative stuff in my sleep!" my mind screams. "What about all the hours my wife put into art work?" (Which is pure shit to the art aficionados because it's 'anime' anyway, but still...)
"Look at the quality of this stuff, I can't believe people would put money towards this!"


If people are willing to pay for these awful things however, it's our own fault.

Why aren't we making and selling these "things we could do so much better" - if it's that easy and we're that good, we should put our money where our mouths are.

But we almost never do. It takes so much time to make the resources, we have jobs, quality can't be rushed, we're not using pre-made resources so it takes longer, we don't want to release something until it's perfect, the list goes on.

I've been on the front-line of business because I started along with a small company founded by a business genius. I stuck with them at a low pay initially because I KNEW how good he was and he knew I was loyal and hard-working; it's paid off quite well and I have a stable and well-paying job.

Watching our company grow, what worked and what didn't, seeing other companies, etc, I learned that excuses are just that. Results are all that matters in the end.

If your goal is to enjoy making your hobby game, then a good result is you enjoy it. And if you do enjoy it, who cares that some other RM game is making 20K for doing "nothing?"

If the goal if wanting to prove you're above all these hacks that don't conform to your vision, then you'll be dealing with a bitter draught as these 'hacks' sell or get funding for games you wouldn't waste spit on.

Thankfully we have the happy times regurgitating how shitty and unoriginal and cheap everyone else is in our close-knit little communities! That ego stroking is our safe haven, our calm center in the storm of mediocre games. And hell fires upon any that would disturb it!

The theory of velocity and movement

Just an interesting tip, I used 4.5 for normal walk speed. It's faster than 4, but not so fast you zip past things.

You can only set that using code, like $game_player.move_speed = 4.5 (or just @move_speed = 4.5 if you're modifying it in the player class) but you might want to try that value and see if you like it.

Introducing THE CORSAIR MYSTIQUE

Just a battle demo?

Or a demo of the project?

If you're doing a dungeon crawler I hope no one else is doing one too...
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