STATUS

Finally watched Last Jedi. It felt like someone's bad fan fiction, beefed up with Disney's behemoth budget and dignified with a John Williams score. I'm literally in shock they're trusting this director with another 3 movies.

  • Blind
  • 12/27/2017 04:58 PM

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Pages: 1
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
Someone's not a fan of porgs

OldPat
OrudoPatto, kisama!
5107
As an old fan of the original trilogy, I'm liking the new trilogy despite some flaw here and there.
I thought it was a movie of high highs and low lows.It had some cool new ideas and uses of the force which I liked. My main issue was all the awkward comedy that felt shoehorned in. That and the boring casino stuff. I liked all the stuff with Rey, Luke and Ben.
The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars.
I liked it. My only complaint was that all the mysteries and things that JJ Abrams/Disney built up with some of the characters were basically ignored or kind of shat on.

Also I get the correlation between old Luke & Old Kenobi/Yoda... But atleast they weren't whining all about their failures. "I didn't wannabe found. I failed. The Jedi and I must die!" Bruh... There was a flippin map on how to find you in your droid. Wtf... Cry some more about it.
My biggest issue with the film is that it felt almost self-indulgently nihilistic...but not in a a way that was entertaining, or "earned" by the writing. The character motivations, mostly, didn't make any sense. During some of the seemingly dramatic moments, I literally laughed out loud. Rian Johnson took every element people loved about the classic trilogy, (& even the prequels to some extent), and threw them completely out the window. It was like a bad joke, at the audience's expense.


The Jedi/Luke Skywalker stuff especially completely betrayed his character, considering the way he had been developed in every film before this one. I get that he became lonely and "tortured" over the years in isolation. But I still can't bring myself to believe that the character who refused to fight Vader, would decide to draw a Light Saber on his own nephew in a moment of rage and impulse. It just makes zero sense. And it's clear that Rian Johnson deeply misunderstands the philosophical underpinnings of the Jedi.

Snoke was wasted/a total red herring. (I did enjoy that twist, at least)

Rey's identity was also a strong point of focus in TFA - that was abandoned in this movie. Similarly, her extreme command of the Force was never explained.

I didn't really find myself caring about anything happening to the resistance. The storytelling seemed to imply that no matter what the rebels did, the resurgence of the Empire/First Order was inevitable. So in that sense, their actions and motivations felt empty/without real consequences. It was rehash for the sake of rehash.

When Leia said goodbye to that commander...I was like, uh, are we supposed to care? At all? Over a character who we've spent less than 3-4 minutes with?

The casino planet felt like it could have taken place on Earth...with actors inside little alien masks. Even in the worst of the prequels, there was way more artistic intention and 'identity' to the different planets to help them feel truly otherworldly. I didn't see much of that in Last Jedi.

The music didn't have many standout tracks like past films. Mostly just rehashed leitmotifs and such.


Overall, I can see why non-fans or casual audiences who don't harp on small details could enjoy the film, because it does have some truly beautiful moments. But the more positive scenes, for me, didn't add up a cohesive whole, or make any attempt to connect meaningfully to the SW universe.
So what you're lamenting over is the fact that this trilogy has no coherent overarching plot to it like, say, the LotR trilogy, and that it looks like each movie will be a largely independent concoction of pandering to nostalgia, audience (un)expectations and internet criticism, but that it still looks cool and people will pay money to see it anyway.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A few years after the entire trilogy is complete and the craze is over, people will look back with a keener eye and realize that Lucas' prequel trilogy is, in spite of it's faults, actually better than Disney's trilogy.
author=Blind
The Jedi/Luke Skywalker stuff especially completely betrayed his character, considering the way he had been developed in every film before this one. I get that he became lonely and "tortured" over the years in isolation. But I still can't bring myself to believe that the character who refused to fight Vader, would decide to draw a Light Saber on his own nephew in a moment of rage and impulse. It just makes zero sense. And it's clear that Rian Johnson deeply misunderstands the philosophical underpinnings of the Jedi.


I don't know about that. Luke never went through proper Jedi training. He had an afternoon training with an old man and then a couple weeks with Yoda and that was it. He took his light sabre into the dark cave despite Yoda asking him not too and he gave himself to the dark side, even if it was only momentarily, being brought back by knowing he would be no different to the father who he went to save in Return of the Jedi after cutting off Vaders hand. Luke wanted to be do what was right but he always had self doubt issues throughout the entire trilogy. I think Lukes character in this exactly what Luke would have become if he went through what he did. I don't think it was about the Jedi at all in this film. It was about Luke as a character, a self professed Jedi, and that is far more interesting than just the same old shit we have seen over and over and over.

I think Reys parentage being nobody of significance is important to for the franchise going forward. I don't want to see 30 sequels about the Skywalker/Solo bloodline. I want to see new things. This opens the future movies up to better spread out and become there own things rather than having to forever be in the original trilogy's shadow.

author=Dyhalto
I've said it before and I'll say it again. A few years after the entire trilogy is complete and the craze is over, people will look back with a keener eye and realize that Lucas' prequel trilogy is, in spite of it's faults, actually better than Disney's trilogy.


I think the prequel trilogy is definitely going to be remembered as being more entertaining (even if its largely got the wrong reasons)... but probably not better.

The prequels are the only real solid comedy trilogy I can think of... though Attack of the Clones is a bit dry outside of the "I hate sand" scene.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I think Jenny Nicholson covers most of my thoughts:
author=visitorsfromdreams
author=Blind
The Jedi/Luke Skywalker stuff especially completely betrayed his character, considering the way he had been developed in every film before this one. I get that he became lonely and "tortured" over the years in isolation. But I still can't bring myself to believe that the character who refused to fight Vader, would decide to draw a Light Saber on his own nephew in a moment of rage and impulse. It just makes zero sense. And it's clear that Rian Johnson deeply misunderstands the philosophical underpinnings of the Jedi.
I don't know about that. Luke never went through proper Jedi training. He had an afternoon training with an old man and then a couple weeks with Yoda and that was it. He took his light sabre into the dark cave despite Yoda asking him not too and he gave himself to the dark side, even if it was only momentarily, being brought back by knowing he would be no different to the father who he went to save in Return of the Jedi after cutting off Vaders hand. Luke wanted to be do what was right but he always had self doubt issues throughout the entire trilogy. I think Lukes character in this exactly what Luke would have become if he went through what he did. I don't think it was about the Jedi at all in this film. It was about Luke as a character, a self professed Jedi, and that is far more interesting than just the same old shit we have seen over and over and over.

I think it's interesting how, in ways, true to the text the Luke story kinda is. The only real problem is that we've had thirty years to extrapolate own versions of the stories, but when you look at what is actually there visitorfromdreams' interpretation of what happened is just as valid as any preconceived notions that didn't mesh with the Luke of The Last Jedi. Looking back at it The Force Awakens really builds up Luke Skywalker as this mythical being, so in a way it would almost have been disappointing to see all of those... expectations fulfilled. In fact how interesting a story would that have been really?

The thing that I loved about The Last Jedi is how it defied certain expectations, but did it in a way that just made the movie better and more intriguing. I always enjoy when I think I know how a movie might be going in and then it isn't that, but instead it is way better than that. It doesn't happen very often. And I never thought it would happen in a Star Wars movie.
Theres 9 Star Wars movies currently (10 including Clone Wars) and only 1 is genuinely great, 2 are good and the rest range from average to bad. I don't know why people get so butthurt about these films like its a series of masterpieces.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32347
visitorsfromdreams
Theres 9 Star Wars movies currently (10 including Clone Wars) and only 1 is genuinely great, 2 are good and the rest range from average to bad. I don't know why people get so butthurt about these films like its a series of masterpieces.


Ahem, someone has forgotten about The Holiday Special, Caravan of Courage, and The Battle for Endor.
If they are good or not doesn't really matter. It's all about that sweet sweet cultural significance.
I love it and I am psyched he is doing 3 more movies! I am going again tomorrow.
author=Dyhalto
So what you're lamenting over is the fact that this trilogy has no coherent overarching plot to it like, say, the LotR trilogy, and that it looks like each movie will be a largely independent concoction of pandering to nostalgia, audience (un)expectations and internet criticism, but that it still looks cool and people will pay money to see it anyway.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A few years after the entire trilogy is complete and the craze is over, people will look back with a keener eye and realize that Lucas' prequel trilogy is, in spite of it's faults, actually better than Disney's trilogy.
Yup, you pretty much nailed it on the head.

I was totally okay with them being "bold" and subverting the SW Universe. But I don't think they did it in a way that actually made the film any better. Maybe during a rewatch I'll find more to appreciate - but yeah, especially with the Luke scenes, I just didn't buy it as realistic. It wasn't just an aged and more nuanced Luke. It was a complete 180 that wasn't at all justified or explained.

I sort-of agree about the prequels too. They were a hot mess at times, but I appreciated that least had more of a singular vision for the character arcs, even if executed poorly. And similarly, the art design and music etc was way better than most of TFA or Last Jedi.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32347
I love them all, except Attack of the Clones, because halfway in, Lucas forgot he was making an action movie and it got really freaking boring, and Rogue One, because the the entire purpose of the movie was to badly explain a plot hole that even need to be explained because we already saw first hand that only a space wizard could exploit it anyway...and the characters in Rogue One were just really poorly done.
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