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"We're finally bringing back our beautiful, clean coal." - An actual, non-facetious SOTU quote... =__=
Blind- 01/31/2018 05:25 PM
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CloseI think Trump is stuck in the 80s, when coal was KING and 'proven coal reserves in the USA were twice as valuable as the oil reserves in the middle east'.
Can we bring back the guillotine too cause there are lots of people we could use it on
Hell, I'll even give Trump first dibs on the test run
Hell, I'll even give Trump first dibs on the test run
Taking all bets on when Trump talks about bringing back leaded gasoline and CFCs!
author=Roden
Can we bring back the guillotine too cause there are lots of people we could use it on
Hell, I'll even give Trump first dibs on the test run
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=GreatRedSpirit
Please don't post pics of me working out.
author=GreatRedSpirit
Taking all bets on when Trump talks about bringing back leaded gasoline and CFCs!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.
"Doctor Thomas Midgley Jr. (May 18, 1889 – November 2, 1944) was an American mechanical engineer and chemist. He was a key figure in a team of chemists, led by Charles F. Kettering, that developed the tetraethyllead (TEL) additive to gasoline as well as some of the first chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs)."
" J. R. McNeill, an environmental historian, opined that Midgley "had more impact on the atmosphere than any other single organism in Earth's history.""
TheNecromancer
3160
I was watching John Oliver and he did a story on clean coal and Trump. Trump said a while back, something like "We're going to take the coal out of the ground, and we're going to clean it"
Dyhalto
7536
Coal is very clean and has been for a long time, as long as you apply modern technology to it's handling. Pulverized coal can be atomized into a gas-like state, and precipitators have no trouble reducing flyash byproduct to zero.
The problem here is, Trump and the Republican Party are ALSO the party of no environmental regulations. You can see where this will lead...
The problem here is, Trump and the Republican Party are ALSO the party of no environmental regulations. You can see where this will lead...
Dyhalto
7536
What's your point?
Here is some safe, clean burning natural gas.
Solar panels cook birds mid-air. Windmill farms are uneconomical and always waste arable farmland. There are going to be downsides to everything we use.
My point still stands : Modern coal usage in the first world is very clean. This isn't far-right conjecture. It is objective fact. The billowing black smoke stacks of the industrial revolution are not there anymore because they would never be tolerated in this day and age, and you would do well to open your eyes and ears to reality and not spontaneously reject facts at face value because they contradict your predetermined opinion on social justice.
But my other point also stands : Given their way, Trump's regime will open as many coal plants as they can and operate with minimal environmental regs.
Or his whole appeal to the coal miner demographic could have been empty rhetoric and demagogy because they were one of his big support blocs during the campaign.
Here is some safe, clean burning natural gas.
Solar panels cook birds mid-air. Windmill farms are uneconomical and always waste arable farmland. There are going to be downsides to everything we use.
My point still stands : Modern coal usage in the first world is very clean. This isn't far-right conjecture. It is objective fact. The billowing black smoke stacks of the industrial revolution are not there anymore because they would never be tolerated in this day and age, and you would do well to open your eyes and ears to reality and not spontaneously reject facts at face value because they contradict your predetermined opinion on social justice.
But my other point also stands : Given their way, Trump's regime will open as many coal plants as they can and operate with minimal environmental regs.
Or his whole appeal to the coal miner demographic could have been empty rhetoric and demagogy because they were one of his big support blocs during the campaign.
Blind
2262
author=Dyhalto
Or his whole appeal to the coal miner demographic could have been empty rhetoric and demagogy because they were one of his big support blocs during the campaign.
Pretty certain that's the case. He's done very little to "boost" the livelihoods of the white/working-class demographics he's made many promises to.
author=kentonaauthor=GreatRedSpirithttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.
Taking all bets on when Trump talks about bringing back leaded gasoline and CFCs!
"Doctor Thomas Midgley Jr. (May 18, 1889 – November 2, 1944) was an American mechanical engineer and chemist. He was a key figure in a team of chemists, led by Charles F. Kettering, that developed the tetraethyllead (TEL) additive to gasoline as well as some of the first chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs)."
" J. R. McNeill, an environmental historian, opined that Midgley "had more impact on the atmosphere than any other single organism in Earth's history.""
Honestly I'm amazed he didn't donate vast quantities of asbestos to orphanages to try and make them fire retardant.
I wasn't responding to you, Dyhalto, but to the thread in general, and your false equivalence fallacy is noted.
Since you decided to bristle at me for making a comment about a fire that can never be extinguished and will burn and expand until no fuel remains, I'm going to have to ask for citation--preferably not paid for by the coal industry. Coal is the dirtiest of all fossil fuels and we burn 8 billion tons of it a year. It contributes to 39 percent of our global CO2 emissions, and thousands of people die PER YEAR mining it.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/coal/nijhuis-text
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/news/a27886/how-does-clean-coal-work/
Realistically it's probably a lot more environmentally sound to bake the occasional bird on solar panels or filet them on wind turbines than to bake the whole planet for the sake of a few people's convenience.
Since you decided to bristle at me for making a comment about a fire that can never be extinguished and will burn and expand until no fuel remains, I'm going to have to ask for citation--preferably not paid for by the coal industry. Coal is the dirtiest of all fossil fuels and we burn 8 billion tons of it a year. It contributes to 39 percent of our global CO2 emissions, and thousands of people die PER YEAR mining it.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/coal/nijhuis-text
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/news/a27886/how-does-clean-coal-work/
Realistically it's probably a lot more environmentally sound to bake the occasional bird on solar panels or filet them on wind turbines than to bake the whole planet for the sake of a few people's convenience.
Dyhalto
7536
Ah, okay.
I thought you were gunning for me there. Sorry, piano. No hard feelings, I hope ヽ(´▽`)/
Nah, I'm not about to go to bat for Trump's speech, and I'm not a big coal advocate either. I'm a nuclear boy. Fourth-generation pebble bed reactors are as safe as globes of invulnerability, and will do the trick until we get the ITER going, if only people would drop this uneducated, irrational fear of nuclear pollution.
I thought you were gunning for me there. Sorry, piano. No hard feelings, I hope ヽ(´▽`)/
Nah, I'm not about to go to bat for Trump's speech, and I'm not a big coal advocate either. I'm a nuclear boy. Fourth-generation pebble bed reactors are as safe as globes of invulnerability, and will do the trick until we get the ITER going, if only people would drop this uneducated, irrational fear of nuclear pollution.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Dyhalto
Ah, okay.
I thought you were gunning for me there. Sorry, piano. No hard feelings, I hope ヽ(´▽`)/
Nah, I'm not about to go to bat for Trump's speech, and I'm not a big coal advocate either. I'm a nuclear boy. Fourth-generation pebble bed reactors are as safe as globes of invulnerability, and will do the trick until we get the ITER going, if only people would drop this uneducated, irrational fear of nuclear pollution.
I mean I'm on board with nuclear, but it's not exactly irrational to fear nuclear pollution, since that can fuck you up in horrifying ways. Like, IIRC coal is much, much worse in terms of health and fatality issues, but those are generally not super exciting AND mostly happen to workers,* not some unfortunate schlub who just happened to live to close to the power plant.
If anything, I'd say people are irrationally complacent about the issues regarding other forms of energy.
*Who also have extremely shitty health plans so that doesn't help at all. :(
Personally, I'm a big fan of nuclear energy, too.
That said, with a world history that includes things like Chernobyl, Three-Mile Island, and Fukushima, I think people actually have pretty good reason to be afraid. Chernobyl, Three-Mile Island, and Fukushima were all failures in safety protocol, maintenance, and security and that shouldn't comfort anyone because all that does is prove that a majority of people who actually run reactors will do nothing to improve a situation if they don't see anything wrong.
If we can create a system where we can at least guarantee that owners will be proactive on safety, then I think nuclear can solve a significant amount of problems.
EDIT: @Sooz, when coal was America's fuel source lung disease caused by breathing coal was a huge health problem. Living near a plant that burned coal would inevitably prove a health disaster. My grandparents had stories about how when they were kids, the walls were coated black from coal. It was also commonly used in fireplaces. I big impetus behind the push to gasoline was the rate of coal-related death.
That said, with a world history that includes things like Chernobyl, Three-Mile Island, and Fukushima, I think people actually have pretty good reason to be afraid. Chernobyl, Three-Mile Island, and Fukushima were all failures in safety protocol, maintenance, and security and that shouldn't comfort anyone because all that does is prove that a majority of people who actually run reactors will do nothing to improve a situation if they don't see anything wrong.
If we can create a system where we can at least guarantee that owners will be proactive on safety, then I think nuclear can solve a significant amount of problems.
EDIT: @Sooz, when coal was America's fuel source lung disease caused by breathing coal was a huge health problem. Living near a plant that burned coal would inevitably prove a health disaster. My grandparents had stories about how when they were kids, the walls were coated black from coal. It was also commonly used in fireplaces. I big impetus behind the push to gasoline was the rate of coal-related death.
Please don't forget about the disasters when coal power plants fuck up and release millions of gallons of sludge and basically wipe out the local ecosystem and get arsenic and mercury in the groundwater. It doesn't even take a 9.0 magnitude earthquake followed by a 15 foot tsunami to cause them! It's just that coal lobbying is powerful mixed with nobody giving a shit. Also there's radioactive material in coal that's spewed out and compared to nuclear is more radioactive per watt produced. But again coal is our friend and nobody wants to say bad things about coal to the point that people are destroying their own futures over praying that the coal jobs return despite the canary being dead for ages.
fuck coal
fuck coal
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=pianotm
EDIT: @Sooz, when coal was America's fuel source lung disease caused by breathing coal was a huge health problem. Living near a plant that burned coal would inevitably prove a health disaster.
author=GreatRedSpirit
Please don't forget about the disasters when coal power plants fuck up and release millions of gallons of sludge and basically wipe out the local ecosystem and get arsenic and mercury in the groundwater. It doesn't even take a 9.0 magnitude earthquake followed by a 15 foot tsunami to cause them!
Well, yeah, that's why I said "not super exciting."
Nuclear disaster: Lots of people die very quickly and/or get very sick in dramatic and unusual ways
Coal: Lots more people die, but very slowly over time and with fairly bland symptoms.
Humans are very, very bad at judging what's the most salient danger, because we adapted to react to the most dramatic danger.
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