hello and greetings!
Also, Kat, i'm loving the cats, but would you please hold them back a bit? I have a feeling we might be reaching somewhere :D
That's fine. I won't be coming back anyway. I wanted to reply to Liberty because another administrator PMed me giving me confidence, but seeing that equal weight is apparently being given here and I just heard "both sides are just as bad" from an admin I think I'm done now.
I have better things to do than beat a dying horse. The kittens were because I grew tired of responding to people who were just ignoring what I was typing anyway.
Like I've already said on multiple occasions, "there is a big difference between being allowed to speak your mind, and people actually respecting or caring about what you have to say", so I completely agree with you when you say that people aren't entitled to have anyone engage with them; but that's very different to stopping people from speaking their mind!
you are literally contradicting yourself here
ElectricalKat is trying to say that such opinions shouldn't even be allowed to be voiced, which I think is abhorrent in the extreme. I find the idea that people shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind far more offensive than people saying that they think homosexuality is a sin (and I find both awful before anyone think that I don't), because without free speech we wouldn't have a society were people are even open to discuss their sexuality and find out more about themselves cf. Russia were you literally can't even speak about homosexuality to minors because it's illegal.
Freedom of speech is really fucking important if you want a progressive society. It's what a progressive society is built on. If you let people with abhorrent viewpoints speak their mind then you can engage and educate them; if you ban the speaking their minds then their opinion will go untested and their attitudes won't change.
If a person doesn't believe in something you don't jump on them in a dogpile of hate. You gently open their eyes. And they have the right to their own personal beliefs as long as they aren't shoving them down others' throats. Like you are doing, demanding that others must believe as you do. People don't have to believe in the moon landing, they don't have to believe in cheese, they don't have to believe in alternate sexuality.
Again, why do you think allowing someone to say "I don't believe in homosexuality / it is a sin." in a topic discussing matters of LGBT concern is in any form productive? Why are they allowed to spew something like that but I'm not allowed to defend my own right to exist? Because what you're saying is seriously coming off as this. Apparently this poster was "dogpiled"--and yet, I don't see this same concern being applied to people who are literally using a politician who inspires homophobic hunting parties as an example.
That they're wrong or not isn't the issue in question. The issue is that they aren't harming you by not believing as long as they aren't trying to force you to believe (or disbelieve). Fair enough, if they're being assholes and going all "I don't believe in x and thus you don't matter." This was not the case. He stated his own personal opinion, as part of the discussion. There was no implied hate there, no looking down on people, just a difference of opinion.
I don't think you understand what LGBT people experience if you really think saying what that poster said isn't supposed to construe as outright insulting.
Not every single differing opinion is an attack, ffs. If the only people you talk to are those who believe exactly as you do, a shallow world it would be. There's a fucking huge difference between mentioning your own belief - without judgement or any secondary meaning - and deliberately trying to insult or demean people by using 'code'.
This isn't the same and that you're weighing LGBT existence to someone who is trolling a topic with "I think you existing is a sin." we have a definite incompatibility.
Rabid attacking is pathetic on both sides. You are basically acting just like those you condemn for their hate.
Oh, "both sides". I suppose we do have an incompatibility, then.
I thought the, "Why are we talking about this? This is a game-dev forum!" argument was one of the things people were complaining about when it came to people derailing these threads? I guess you're not that much better than the people you've been condemning?
Cuntish as I may be, at least I'm consistent in my beliefs. To repeat what I said before, the idea that certain opinions can't be voiced is infinitely more offensive to me than anything anyone has posted in this thread.
from now on if anyone who is not part of the rmn administration posts something like that in any form i am just going to reply with pictures of kittens. trust me i've got a lot of them. because things like that don't deserve a proper response.
They're allowed simply because they exist. Such viewpoints are strongly propagated by some pretty powerful people on the world stage, so refusing to engage with people who hold such beliefs isn't exactly a brilliant plan. So I don't see a problem with people voicing those opinions as long as they're not using aggressive language whilst doing so.
As much as I think homophobic viewpoints are abhorrent, it doesn't mean those people don't have a right to speak their mind. Remember, there is a big difference between being allowed to speak your mind, and people actually respecting or caring about what you have to say.
lol so because they're held by a significant amount of people in the Real World® and because politicians in power also hold them we should allow them on a game dev forum ok boddy
for your troubles, have a kitten
edit: let's also not forget the irony of Sated using vladimir fucking putin as an example, given putin's homophobia literal sparks things like these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-dDd4dtOFM&t=8m44s [MASSIVE CONTENT WARNINGS]
For example, someone made a post in this thread where they said they don't believe in homosexuality. It's against their religion and, hell, fair enough. He didn't go on to say they all deserved to burn in hell or that he hated them, just that his own belief was that it was a sin. And that's his right to believe that. He wasn't - as some people started screaming - shoving it in everyone's faces and screaming to repent and that we're all going to burn in the fires of hell. It was a polite post, and hey, fair enough. He shared his belief and I, personally, had no issue with that despite being flexi-sexual. (;p)
But when someone comes in and starts tossing around terms and words as deliberate insults just to 'not really' insult (despite the fact that everyone and their grandmother can tell that what they mean is less than polite) - that's when I don't like it. And they use certain words and terms (SJW and the like.) which become small catchphrases that they use to get around the whole 'no insulting people' rule.
Honestly? I'd take "I don't believe in homosexuality / it is a sin to me." to be quite aggressive, too, on the same level as your second paragraph. Because, seriously, in a topic of LGBT circumstances, why are beliefs against our existence to the point of banning our right to marry, have health care, keep a job, etcetera somehow allowed? It serves no purpose at all but to start a fight because LGBT people caught in the middle of all those circumstances (myself included) will definitely not react well upon seeing that.
People are allowed to have opinions, I'm not going to deny them that. But this is akin to intentionally trolling.
author=Corfaisusauthor=ElectricalKatCoincidentally, I made an ironic gif relevant to this exact point.
I've seen authors get called SJW literally just for including characters of minorities! The word is pretty much used like conservatives use "liberal media"--just to try to label and downplay the importance of anyone who wants to make a progressive change. Are you a feminist who thinks people should pay just a little more attention to representation and issues of marginalized people in media? You're an SJW! SJW SJW SJW SSJJWWWW (SSJ SJW?)
I even encouraged those who were of the sort to demonize people for striving for a change to use it as their avatar. It works for some people.
returning from cryosleep to give this a Like :D
Anyway, I've said enough. At this point people are just repeating themselves and/or ignoring (intentionally or not) what I typed, so I'm going to go back into suspended animation. I came back to this thread intending to find out how much things have changed since the last time I was here, and I've satisfied that. I know more than enough now.
Enjoy yourselves. :>
Enjoy yourselves. :>
Seriously, everyone should go and take a long deep look into fucking a mirror.
All this elitism is disgusting me.
i hope you didn't mean to say 'you're as bad as them!!' because if so you have nothing to add here