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[RMVX ACE] Reviving Triple Triad (FF8 Minigame)

hey guys, big thanks for the feedback so far - this helps me a lot!

Yeah I know Tetra Master but I also like Triple Triad much more. But there are two things in Tetra Master that I would like to incorporate into TT as well: Random Values (only as a special rule for certain cards) and: Card Progression/Levelling.

I still don't know how to do the Progression/Levelling Aspect.

@Feldschlacht IV:
Hm that Collection Aspect sounds really cool. As Elements/Creature Types are present in my version of the script, it would be possible to break the whole card set down into parts (Like Fire, Water, Goblin, Demon, Angel). When a player collects 100% of a certain part (like all Water cards) there could be a bonus, and more bonuses if you collect 25/50/75 or even 100% of the total card set. I think this could be nice addition to keep the players going!

Also a very good idea. I like to have more special abilities like this one. I have been thinking about adding a special to every other card. It would be almost like a regular CCG/TCG (trading card game) where (almost) each card has a special ability.

So far Im planning to have some cards with Random Values, they would feature a "?" instead of a number on the specific side. And that side's number would be determined once the card has been placed. The number can be anything between 1 and X. Where X is higher than the cards level would actually allow on a regular card.

Lets say a level 5 card could feature a maximum of 6. If it features a "?" instead, it would be able to produce any result between 1 and …lets say 7 or 8. Well, its a pure luck thing, but it would be perfect for "Chaos" aligned cards.

Stuff like this could really improve the game I think, but - its very important NOT to plaster all available cards with specials. Only every other card. In the old TT only a few cards featured an element, but not all of them. It should be the same with special abilities.

One final thought I had was about how the rules would be handled. As much as I like the "regions" from TT that determine what rules are used, I would like to offer another approach. There could be a sixth's card for each player, a so called "Rules Card". This card cannot be played onto the board, instead it modifies the rules that are in effect for the match. There could be a card that activates the "open" rule while another one would activate the "combo" rule. The big question is if this can be implemented in a fair and balanced way into the existing game.

More feedback anyone? Like new rules or additional "meta" effects?

[RMVX ACE] Reviving Triple Triad (FF8 Minigame)

interesting point of view and perfectly legitimate. But this does not change my original intention: Modifying the existing Triple Triad game into something that you could call a 'Advanced' version. Ignoring any RPG design principles at this point and not looking at TT as a mini-game. I just want to boost the maximum out of this little Triple Triad game.

There have been online versions done in flash or browser-based as well and they all introduced new rules (like Cross, Retry and others) to the system. I don't think all thats possible has been done yet in order to expand good old TT. And this is why this topic was created: If you have any thoughts about how to expand the game, feel free to post them here and I will do my best to integrate them.

BTW: all the rules (current ones as well as new ones) can be turned on and off. So its possible to emulate the region style of play that we have seen in FF8 as well. The whole pool of rules can be introduced step by step to the player, just as the designer wishes.

[RMVX ACE] Reviving Triple Triad (FF8 Minigame)

<excuse my double-post please>

For all who might be interested: I have started reworking Raizens script and released a new version on This script already contains lots of the changes I mentioned in my opening-post. Feel free to check it out, demo included and easily integrated into your own project. Expect another update next week containing new features and graphical improvements.

Im still interested in hearing suggestions/ideas regarding the topic!

[RMVX ACE] Reviving Triple Triad (FF8 Minigame)

Hey guys,
Its been a while since my last post here on RMN, anyways: Im currently messing a bit with Raizen's Triple Triad script. I guess many of you remember the old Triple Triad card-minigame from FF8. Im currently adding the Elemental Rule to Raizen's script and wonder if you have simple ideas how Triple Triad could be improved without changing it into a completely different game?

As the cards have four corners and the numbers are on the top left corner, we still have 3 spaces left to put other stuff. To me it makes sense to use all the available space, it limits the scope and prevents the cards from becoming too cluttered while offering lots of extra design freedom. The elemental rule Im working takes the upper right corner, so we have 2 more left to put numbers/icons to them. Here are some of my ideas that would fill the 2 remaining card corners:

1. Type/Family
In addition to their element, a card could also feature a type (like goblin, angel, demon, undead). Each type would be strong against another type and gain +1 against that type when you place it adjacent to it. For example placing a Angel next to a Demon would increase the Angels touching side by +1. Please note this only counts when you place a card.
The question is if this rule is good enough so that it justifies taking up a whole corner of a card.

2. Special Effect / Ability
My main interest right now. There could be a bunch of special abilities and each card can only have one (or none). This would make the game much more tactical and interesting. The biggest problem is coming up with clever ideas without breaking the design scope of Triple Triad.

For example, if you play a card with the Clairvoyance ability, it would make the cards in your opponents hand visible, just like the open rule had been used (only on your opponent). But Im having trouble inventing other abilities, I would like to see a dozen or so.

3. Places of Power
This is not related to the cards but would be a new rule: In addition to fields that feature an element symbol there could also be power points. A card placed on a power point would gain +1, in addition to any elemental effect that might be there. This would enable a Fire creature placed on a Fire+Power Point space to gain +2 in total. Placing a water creature on a Fire+PowerPoint space would result in +0 (the power point cancels the fire negative effect on the water creature). There would be a maximum of 1-2 power points per game, sometimes also 0.

This rule would be especially interesting when you begin with your opening move: Do you place a card on the PP in order to gain +1 but accept a (possibly) less-optimal location for your card?

4. Bigger Numbers
Finally I would like to increase the number values on the cards a bit. It would limit it to 1-digit numbers (because 2 digits take too much space). But instead of just an A, there would be higher values symbolized by B, C, D, E and so on. Z would be the new A, although I don't think numbers would ever be that high. This just adds a bit more freedom to card design (and the computer would calculate all numbers anyways so there is no hassle with numbers VS. letters).

k, thats all for now. Would be very interested in your feedback guys!

Pseudo Roguelike or true Roguelike in VX Ace?

Hi folks, Im back!
Im working on a roguelike project in VX Ace, using Saba Kans Random Dungeon Generator. I started the project last year and learned a lot about VX Ace until today. I am OK at scripting and think I have what it takes to tackle such a project (for example I modified Saba Kans script so that the mini-map can be toggled on/off and there are tweaks to the dungeon generator itself allowing dungeons with unlimited floors on a single map by re-using the map etc.).

As of now, Im using the standard battle system. There are on-screen touch encounters but then you go to the battle screen and fight using the standard battle system. The same thing is true to all the menus and basic database of the maker. This approach is not really "rogue like" as those games usually have "map screen battles". Scripting this project into a "real" rogue like is lot of additional work. Okay, now here is my question, which path should I choose?

A. A pseudo Roguelike RPG
Using the standard battle system, featuring a party of 4, lots of skills and customization options, tons of items (almost like in an MMO). All done using the default systems and database.

B. A "true" Roguelike
In order to achieve this, I am forced to cut back on the complexity. Pros: Map Screen Battles, Interacting with enemies and objects right on the map etc. Cons: Only 1 Hero (no party), only a few dozen scripted items and skills. Not tons of them.

If you want to know more about the project, you should check out the games page here on RMN (note: the latest blog post is still targeted towards a "pseudo roguelike" approach).

Thanks for any opinion!


Protecting your project from thieves.

@kentona I second you on this: Being quiet works against you.

The more you post about your game, the more it becomes clear that you are the true author. Get involved early and no one will be in doubt about your work.

BTW: If someone would steal your idea and you can prove that, this *could* create some hefty "marketing" buzz for your game!

[Poll] How often should equipment change?

Oh yeah - this thread provides me with so much feedback (between the lines) about how to alter my current game projects. This is really valuable shit guys!

@RyaReisender: I especially like the first paragraph of your answer! Yes, many of the modern RPGs (and a good number of old ones) could remove the equipment altogether. I played WoW a lot in the past and until you hit the higher levels you always wonder what the point about all those equipment is that you gain after finishing quests: its ridicilous! Most power comes from your intrinsic attributes and skills and the weapons (etc.) add just a minor amount to it - totally weird! Sometimes it seems like they just added it "because it has to be there" and to give players something to collect and sell.

This brings me to:

@LockeZ: Very good point when you say: "These items only exist to make players return to town and sell them". Very good point and this goes hand-in-hand with what RyaReisender said!

So, equipment is a core feature in all RPGs. Its basically the translation of the "extra" found in most Shoot-em-Ups into a medieval/sci-fi turn-based and/or number-based world.

In the earlier days, these "extras" where required to beat the game. They added a lot of "firepower" to your "ship" in order to win the game. But it seems like, that in the younger days the gameplay macerated so much that "extras" are not really required as much as in the past. But they just could not remove them because this would mean to remove one of the core reasons to play a RPG.

So, developers searched for another way how to make items meaningful to the game. items nowadays also count as achievement, they count as a currency, they are literally classified as "loot" in many modern RPGs. Last but not least, items are also craft materials, ingredients and - trade items found in auction houses.

@RyaReisender: About linearity: You are absolutely right. I sometimes think the main point is that, producing game costs money. And nowadays all projects are so streamlined that the developers have no time/money left to add extra content to the game anymore. This is BTW done via Add-Ons.

This brings me to another aspect: In the earlier days you got all selectable characters at once, you also got the full playable game time at once. Nowadays they are slicing the content and pack characters and bonus content into expansions. Not that the games got longer or more complex (well they did, but not regarding that aspect!) - they just got the idea to SELL YOU extra episodes/characters.

This is such a shame, it was not that way in the past.

Man, i remember Phantasy Star 1 on the Master System. Okay its old and quite linear in itself - but oh my god - they packed so much stuff onto this tiny little old cartridge!

@RyaReisender: Thanks for the other input you provided. Im just reading the rest and will answer later (got a bit carried away with my current answer).

Whatchu Workin' On? Tell us!

@LockeZ Okay got it, accidentally marked them as feedback image.

Whatchu Workin' On? Tell us!

Still working on my games database (14 core weapon types with varying advantages and disadvantages so far) - and waiting for my game page to be approved (does it always take that long? I want to start blogging!)

[Poll] How often should equipment change?

Thank you for your detailled answer LockeZ. Sadly my english is not so good to formulate my thoughts in a more sophisticated way, but i guess my point is clear:

The reason why I am tying equipment to character levels is, that in most RPGs (or action RPGs) I played - it is done exactly that way. The people who created those games had a plan of the overall complexity. no company builds a game without knowing the whole picture. but many fan based games do. their authors build the game as they see fit and this leads to adding something new every now and then without knowing if it fits the progression curve of the players, not to speak about balancing or if it is enough (or too much) to fill the whole game.

So, what I am talking about is how to fill a game with proper character equipment while keeping the whole picture and the party progression curve in mind. all the time. I encountered many games when your main character reaches like 20 attack and you will still be wielding a ATK 18 sword. the next available weapoin will be a 20-22 ATK sword that you can either find or buy in the next store.

One of my favorite examples is final fantasy adventure (gameboy, back in the days). there where not even a dozen of weapons (of one type) in the game, but it was enough for that game. every time you reached a shop that featured a new set of equipment you got that feeling that you rached a new episode.

In Secret of Mana 2 (Seiken Densetsu 3, SNES) it was different: there where something like 2 dozen of equipment pieces per character. the game was also much longer than FFA but the timing and distribution of equipment was just right. again: it always felt like a new episode is beginning when you found a upgraded set of equipment.

two games with varying length and varying amount of equipment. but two games that had an episodical feel to it - regarding gaining, using, outwearing and upgrading equipment. but in the end, you can tone it down to "get a new weapon every x levels". because both games did it more or less this way (you have to be level X to get through the snow field etc.)

@LockeZ: So what you say actually matches my initial statement: you gain equipment based on episodes or level intervalls. what i also like is the staement that you say: make your players work for it, make it feel important. but dont make it overimportant and dont overuse equipment (do not offer them too much, or too fast or for a low price).

The question though - is still the same: How much equipment do I offer my players during a RPGs. Yes, it depends on the length of the game (see examples above) you can also condsense or stretch distribution of equipment ( make sure that its still fun and challenging to your players).

Maybe this poll would have been better as a thread instead. Maybe the question cannot be answered as it really depends on the style and size of the game. But i believe there must be some benchmarks as a general rule.

And another thing comes up my mind: Can there really be too much equipment? take a look at the modern MMOs, take a look at Diablo 1-3 - players literally wade through piles of equipment. Does this harm a game? Or is it one of the factors that makes a game addicting? Instead of having 1-2 dozen important items - why not confront the players with a myriad of trash items and let them sort out the really good ones?

questions questions - but i guess boards like this are about game design theory!

thanks for any participation!
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