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Reading about the Mary Sue in literature has made me super paranoid about the characters I write.
Pyramid_Head- 04/30/2019 05:32 PM
Posts 
Sidewinder
2880
Closeauthor=pianotm
No, Chuck Norris actually had to work to be a badass. Training and education are two elements that objectively negate the Mary Sue trope.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in Star Trek, don't you need to go to the Starfleet Academy to be an officer? Which would mean Lieutenant Mary Sue would have had both training and education.
author=LockeZ
Main character from Slime Datta Ken, to name a popular recent anime. I like the anime despite that, though, not because of it. The way magic works is interesting, and the way the setting evolves is interesting, and the political drama is interesting. Most of the characters, including the omnipotent protagonist, are boring as heck.
Well, I watched a bit of the first episode. The main character is a 37 year old virgin who reminisces about crapping his pants in school, and begs his friend to delete his hard drive as he lies dying. I get where you're coming from, but I'm not really sure I'd consider him a 'literal perfect character'.
At least, he's nowhere near as bad as something like this.
author=Sooz
"Mary Sue" originally referred solely to a particular type of character in fanfiction, and was never meant to be applied to regular fiction. People are just dumb and want to legitimize their antipathy most of the time.
Write whatever the fuck you want.
Mic drop'd this whole status.
SidewinderpianotmFeel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in Star Trek, don't you need to go to the Starfleet Academy to be an officer? Which would mean Lieutenant Mary Sue would have had both training and education.
No, Chuck Norris actually had to work to be a badass. Training and education are two elements that objectively negate the Mary Sue trope.
Ah! In the story, she's just so good at everything, the Academy just automatically passed her on everything, bypassing training and education. EDIT: That's why she's able to be an officer on the Enterprise at 16, the age cadets would begin training.
Sidewinder
2880
author=pianotmOh. Well at least both Rose Potter and Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way are safe.
Ah! In the story, she's just so good at everything, the Academy just automatically passed her on everything, bypassing training and education. EDIT: That's why she's able to be an officer on the Enterprise at 16, the age cadets would begin training.
Hmm...problem with those is that they're actually set in the school. Do you see them learning anything, or are they already just good at everything, always getting top marks without any justification? If so, they're still Mary Sues.
Sidewinder
2880
author=pianotm
Hmm...problem with those is that they're actually set in the school. Do you see them learning anything, or are they already just good at everything, always getting top marks without any justification?
I'm not sure to be honest. I've never actually read either, I just know a lot about them because they both got discussed a lot, back in the day.
author=pianotm
If so, they're still Mary Sues.
Yeah, pretty much.
Normally I don't really like the term, because nobody has ever really come up with a good definition for what does and doesn't make a Sue, but there are a few cases I feel very comfortable using it.
Darken
3952
I like how I thought the beginning of that video was the guy paraphrasing a stupid opinion, but then realized it was actually what he was saying. The biggest flaw to his whole point about the universe bending to the mary sue is that stories are practically made up anyway. The writer must make up events for things to happen, whether or not the events are connected (or connected well) depend on the choices the writer makes, not how well they know physics.
Stories work at their best when they make some kind of connection with the audience or when they're ABOUT something (maybe a lesson or something to think about). They don't exist to simulate the logistics of the real world that fictional characters must adhere to. If the story wants to be a power fantasy than so be it, you can still add some kind of value to that if you know what you're doing. There's so much you can explore besides obsessing how powerful your character may or might not be. Contrary to popular belief, things like Deus Ex Machinas can be useful literary devices. That's what mythology does all the fucking time.
I would probably disregard anything this guy says especially when he starts his anti-social justice spiel. You need to find better content that isn't trying to brain wash you. I don't think this guy actually cares about literature, just wants to rant about how buying a movie ticket to Captain Marvel is the biggest sin you can commit.
Stories work at their best when they make some kind of connection with the audience or when they're ABOUT something (maybe a lesson or something to think about). They don't exist to simulate the logistics of the real world that fictional characters must adhere to. If the story wants to be a power fantasy than so be it, you can still add some kind of value to that if you know what you're doing. There's so much you can explore besides obsessing how powerful your character may or might not be. Contrary to popular belief, things like Deus Ex Machinas can be useful literary devices. That's what mythology does all the fucking time.
I would probably disregard anything this guy says especially when he starts his anti-social justice spiel. You need to find better content that isn't trying to brain wash you. I don't think this guy actually cares about literature, just wants to rant about how buying a movie ticket to Captain Marvel is the biggest sin you can commit.
Sidewinder
2880
author=Pyramid_Head
This was the video that got me paranoid about mary sues.
There's a lot of contradictions and bad research here. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously. He strikes me as someone who's really more of an entertainer, rather than someone who's actually informed about the topics he's trying to cover.
Yeah, the real problem with Mary Sues is that because they're perfect, there's no conflict surrounding them. As long as you can create conflict in your story or something that helps us relate to the character, you're fine. It's okay for her or him to be a little too perfect. The superhero trope does it all the time. It's kind of what the superhero trope is. Now, that doesn't mean the superhero trope always does it well (it's kind of the nature of tropes in general). Since tropes can be done well or not, then it logically follows that Mary Sues can also be done well. That's what you've got to be concerned with. Don't worry about whether or not you've got a Mary Sue. Just worry about if you've written your story well enough to make your audience care.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Sidewinder
Well, I watched a bit of the first episode. The main character is a 37 year old virgin who reminisces about crapping his pants in school, and begs his friend to delete his hard drive as he lies dying. I get where you're coming from, but I'm not really sure I'd consider him a 'literal perfect character'.
At least, he's nowhere near as bad as something like this.
Yeah, his character actually has to overcome challenges for one episode. Then he absorbs an omnipotent being and gains its power, and then he never makes a single mistake again for the entire series and everyone he meets pledges their allegiance to him and/or falls in love with him. He is so popular that his followers literally form a new nation, the first multi-racial nation to ever exist in the world, and name it after him. It's the most hilariously mary-sue bullshit ever.
author=LockeZauthor=SidewinderYeah, his character actually has to overcome challenges for one episode. Then he absorbs an omnipotent being and gains its power, and then he never makes a single mistake again for the entire series and everyone he meets pledges their allegiance to him and/or falls in love with him. He is so popular that his followers literally form a new nation, the first multi-racial nation to ever exist in the world, and name it after him. It's the most hilariously mary-sue bullshit ever.
Well, I watched a bit of the first episode. The main character is a 37 year old virgin who reminisces about crapping his pants in school, and begs his friend to delete his hard drive as he lies dying. I get where you're coming from, but I'm not really sure I'd consider him a 'literal perfect character'.
At least, he's nowhere near as bad as something like this.
Welcome to reincarnation isekai-stories. Mary Sue is their trademark. It's really not about the challenge. It's about seeing the fantasy world expand and see a miniature japan-esque, except multi-species, culture take over the world, cause modern = better. DUH.
I see your point though, hahaha. The entire genre ain't about challenge. And it suffers from it. No action or heart-felt tension. There is no tension. They are safe. They can still have other fun things going for them. And I just love fantasy creatures coming together and having fun. That's the fun for me : )
That said..
One manga had the guy reincarnate into a dragon, so he was almighty right there, laze around until his slime friends were attacked, then transform into a GORGEOUS male to go weed the world of evil (evil are SHOCKED cause they expect him to want to become an evil lord and not go out for such noooooble reasons as defending a weak species he made friends with), meets female companions/love interests who are upset when he goes into a whorehouse instead of sleeping with them .. oh wait, that's from a different one of those stories, tho he also went into whorehouses because why not. The dragon one was so badly done, and so much cardboard it was dreadful. It involved getting lots of riches from the king for subjugating an evil dragon (cause of course, the one he reincarnated into is the only good one, and no love for dragons), he did it soooo well and everyone present at the time was safe cause the protag was there. So he had enough money to never have any problem living. Not that he had problems before. The slime datte ken one doesn't even compare.
Sidewinder
2880
author=LockeZI felt like a massive tool watching the first episode so I don't think I'll ever try to continue with the series, but I did read the wiki and I saw this:
Yeah, his character actually has to overcome challenges for one episode. Then he absorbs an omnipotent being and gains its power, and then he never makes a single mistake again for the entire series and everyone he meets pledges their allegiance to him and/or falls in love with him.
Spoilers, obviously:
On his way back to Tempest, Rimuru ran into Hinata Sakaguchi, burgeoning Hero, and the Emperor's personal Knight Captain. Rimuru found himself within a massive magic barrier that prevented his use of magic.
After an intense battle, which included the absorption of Hinata's sword via his newly awakened skill , Rimuru managed to escape by allowing Hinata to destroy one of his body doubles with the skill .
Upon returning to the city, Rimuru's faithful servants attempted to hide the awful truth to him. Over 100 of his subjects, including his bodyguard Shion, lied in the streets dead. This was the work of the Monster Subjugation Group of the Church, known as the Blood Shadows. This was a particularly sadistic group that took pleasure in destroying their enemies. Shion gave her life protecting the children as she was struck with The Ogre Eater magic sword.
Due to an off comment regarding Rimuru's three rules, the monsters did not harm the humans who invaded, which made Rimuru feel responsible for the devastation.
After an intense battle, which included the absorption of Hinata's sword via his newly awakened skill , Rimuru managed to escape by allowing Hinata to destroy one of his body doubles with the skill .
Upon returning to the city, Rimuru's faithful servants attempted to hide the awful truth to him. Over 100 of his subjects, including his bodyguard Shion, lied in the streets dead. This was the work of the Monster Subjugation Group of the Church, known as the Blood Shadows. This was a particularly sadistic group that took pleasure in destroying their enemies. Shion gave her life protecting the children as she was struck with The Ogre Eater magic sword.
Due to an off comment regarding Rimuru's three rules, the monsters did not harm the humans who invaded, which made Rimuru feel responsible for the devastation.
EDIT:
author=LockeZAlso in that blog I sent you, Marty conquers the Star Wars galaxy and builds multiple new Maw Installations. The blog specifically points out that he didn't just build some deep space research stations, but rather recreated the black hole phenomena.
It's the most hilariously mary-sue bullshit ever.
I also think staffed the research labs with clones of himself, or something?
EDIT EDIT:
Oh and I think by this point he has an entire fleet of Eclipse II class Super Star Destroyers (which he is then using to conquer the multiverse). I don't know how much you know about Star Wars but the Eclipse II is... pretty big:
