RADNEN'S PROFILE

author=chana

author=nahor23
this is such a misguided argument. its purely subjective whether you find games to be art, escapism or whatever. All I see is a bunch of people forcing their opinions onto others whilst trying to be philosophical about it all.

Totally unlike you! sorry, but seriously, read yourself............!

And thus the paradox was born. From a pair of doxes.

author=Pokemaniac

author=Radnen
You are right, video games don't leave much to the imagination!

Like Minecraft, which allows you to build whatever you want based on the game's logic, or even your standard super-linear JRPG which sets up obstacles for you and forces you to interpret what is going on and react to it...

Video-games aren't art(although they totally are) because there were no video-games when the word art was made. I don't think that changes anything about how we should make them, or the impact they make.

Oh, well some games. I'm not discounting that games aren't art, fuck, I'm going to shut up now, how'd I ever get to talking about this shit? I should've stopped when I saw the word art in the same sentence as "games".

Anyways, the OP said games aren't escapism. The point of contention being: Does he include all games or just some. This is what we should be discussing.

I think Sagitar has made many valid points for games as they don't pertain to escapism (the actual warrant of the debate; do not talk of art here that merits a different warrant (I'd warn all those who did do this)). From my time seeing and reading (online) debates, things tend to fall flat after the first disagreements or ad hominems. Here they do not. The "health" of debate is the "strength" of debate. There is some proof in this kind of strength. Usually in this kind of circumstance, those who totally disagree or agree have narrowed the warrant down to black/white, when an obvious gray zone is present (or has, let's say, presented itself).

I personally believe it can be seen as both escapism and not. Unlike conventional media (books, movies, and plays), video games are far more varied. I can't buy the argument that all games can pr can't be derived from escapism, but I can agree that some indeed are.

@Sagitar: I see what you mean when you say that video games invoke a sense of responsibility that can indeed affect real life. I've seen students at highschool who would fret over their WoW character, all because they can't play as that avatar at that point in time. While in that building they are stuck in the real world. If their guild needed them during the hours of their schooling, then they start to panic about raids they would have missed. One can only imagine as to why some would end up not going to school, or missing class for that day.

But for some games, particularly social games like Harvest Moon or Rune Factory, while they invoke some responsibility, they do so only while the game is on. There is no need to feel an obligation to the game world since it deactivates when the console is off. You're responsibilities are frozen with your saved game. I have a Harvest Moon game I never touched for a long time, but its responsibility is completely gone. For games like WoW, offline actions would be affected by online interactions.

A good example: The weeds that grew in Animal Crossing. Holy crap man, when the game world was off stuff happened. Suddenly the game didn't feel like an escape because the chores were real regardless if the console was off. People would end up leaving the village, those weeds would grow and those who stayed would get kinda pissed at you ("Where have you been!?"). So there are indeed consequences here. To this day I still feel bad for having weeds devour the entirety of the game world. :(

But not all games have this, or have to be that way.