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Lol, I need a bit of help here. My mindset of game making is messed up and really strict. What should be the proper mindset of someone who makes games?
VVBlastFuryVV- 01/15/2015 06:25 AM
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author=JosephSeraph
first things first; can you define your mindset?
This is actually a really important first step.
VVBlastFuryVV
221
I had a feeling I'd have to say it eventually.
Mindset
-Always finish your daily goal in making your RPG. If you fail then sacrifice sleep.
-Alot of downloads and reviews are necessary for your game to be good and to be even looked at as good.
-Low star review = nobody will ever look at your game.
-No downloads = bad game.
-Breaks? What are breaks? Never heard of such a thing.
-Being negative in a low star review where everyone can see it will get you a bad rep and the people arguing against you will probably despise your guts from here on out.
-Getting your game bashed with criticism without a means to recover from it makes your game page look bad and you especially because it looks like you made a horrible shitty game.
Uh, I think that's all.
Mindset
-Always finish your daily goal in making your RPG. If you fail then sacrifice sleep.
-Alot of downloads and reviews are necessary for your game to be good and to be even looked at as good.
-Low star review = nobody will ever look at your game.
-No downloads = bad game.
-Breaks? What are breaks? Never heard of such a thing.
-Being negative in a low star review where everyone can see it will get you a bad rep and the people arguing against you will probably despise your guts from here on out.
-Getting your game bashed with criticism without a means to recover from it makes your game page look bad and you especially because it looks like you made a horrible shitty game.
Uh, I think that's all.
That's a dangerous mindset to have. You hand out a lot of power to people. That, my friend, is very, very dangerous.
Let me ask you this - do you really believe downloads and reviews are all there is to it? Do you think that games here are always great if they have and always bad if they have not?
Think about that. And if you can find it in yourself to value something aside from the points you mentioned, think about how it applies to you. Don't make yourself an exception.
As a side-note, do not forget that this is an indie community .. there are many great games that lack polish, and many crappy games that do not. Both score the same, but only one category of the two is really worth playing.
That's just my two cents. How you go about gam mak is your choice to make, and it depends a lot on how well you fare with it. Some people need and appreciate strict guidlines, some do not. Just have some smaller goals inbetween aside from your planned day's worth. We need the feeling of success.
But to be honest, the last two points show a lot about how you view gam mak here, and the role of yourself in it.
A bad game does not necessarily make a bad dev. A bad game does not say jack shit about your worth as a person or as part of this community.
I have no idea whether your evaluation is based on these guidelines, but if it is, it might be worth pondering about the why.
Someone telling you their view of a "good game dev" won't help you much. If you can't believe in the knowledge you have, it won't stick. You already noticed something is off, so you must also know somewhere deep down what it is you want it to be. It's your task to get down to it.
Let me ask you this - do you really believe downloads and reviews are all there is to it? Do you think that games here are always great if they have and always bad if they have not?
Think about that. And if you can find it in yourself to value something aside from the points you mentioned, think about how it applies to you. Don't make yourself an exception.
As a side-note, do not forget that this is an indie community .. there are many great games that lack polish, and many crappy games that do not. Both score the same, but only one category of the two is really worth playing.
That's just my two cents. How you go about gam mak is your choice to make, and it depends a lot on how well you fare with it. Some people need and appreciate strict guidlines, some do not. Just have some smaller goals inbetween aside from your planned day's worth. We need the feeling of success.
But to be honest, the last two points show a lot about how you view gam mak here, and the role of yourself in it.
A bad game does not necessarily make a bad dev. A bad game does not say jack shit about your worth as a person or as part of this community.
I have no idea whether your evaluation is based on these guidelines, but if it is, it might be worth pondering about the why.
Someone telling you their view of a "good game dev" won't help you much. If you can't believe in the knowledge you have, it won't stick. You already noticed something is off, so you must also know somewhere deep down what it is you want it to be. It's your task to get down to it.
Your first games are probably going to be the worst games you're ever going to make. They're probably going to be very bad. I would just expect that from the get-go and treat them as a learning experience - "sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at something." Instead of trying to make a masterpiece when you first pick up your pencil, make a lot of small games - jam games, experiments - and learn everything you can about the process. Just make a huge quantity of things; you don't have to release them publicly.
Finish your goals as you can, but make sure to sleep, eat, and hang out with friends or otherwise relax. Despite what you may think, the body has physical limits to what you can do when you're tired or hungry, and consistently ignoring those will end up with you making tons of mistakes - every human on the planet has those limits, and you're no exception. Relaxing is also incredibly important, because it allows your brain to reorganize itself, so the next time you sit down to work, it'll be mega-sharp.
If you're looking at getting high-star reviews and a lot of downloads... well, there's no great, guaranteed way to do it, but here's the tips I've picked up so far:
That's all I got! I can't say it's the numero uno "Flawless Plan to Being a Great Game Developer", but this strategy has worked out pretty well for me, despite the millions of mistakes I've made along the way!
(In summary, I guess my mindset is: "Work hard, but not so hard that you break down; and the key to success is to keep practicing and learning.")
Finish your goals as you can, but make sure to sleep, eat, and hang out with friends or otherwise relax. Despite what you may think, the body has physical limits to what you can do when you're tired or hungry, and consistently ignoring those will end up with you making tons of mistakes - every human on the planet has those limits, and you're no exception. Relaxing is also incredibly important, because it allows your brain to reorganize itself, so the next time you sit down to work, it'll be mega-sharp.
If you're looking at getting high-star reviews and a lot of downloads... well, there's no great, guaranteed way to do it, but here's the tips I've picked up so far:
- Focus on getting a very small game very right, instead of making a very long game sort of okay. As a solo developer, and especially as a newbie, it's going to be very hard to make a 40-hour epic that stays incredibly satisfying the whole way through; meanwhile, you can see many popular games that are short but sweet throughout - Dreaming Mary, Pom Gets Wi-Fi, Wine & Roses. You may also notice that each of those games focuses on one thing - humor, cuteness vs. darkness, and challenging battles, in that order.
- Be consistent. In other words, keep it up. Your first game may not get a ton of traction, but a few people might see it and notice you. They're more likely to check out your second game, and your third, and so on - and if you keep at it, not only will your game-making skills improve, you'll have fans that stick with everything you release.
- Don't worry about negative reviews - certainly, don't bash the reviewer, and try to avoid being overly depressed about 'em. They're going to happen. Take 'em in stride, learn what you can, thank the reviewer for taking the time to review it, and move on to the next game.
That's all I got! I can't say it's the numero uno "Flawless Plan to Being a Great Game Developer", but this strategy has worked out pretty well for me, despite the millions of mistakes I've made along the way!
(In summary, I guess my mindset is: "Work hard, but not so hard that you break down; and the key to success is to keep practicing and learning.")
I tip my hat to you, as improving your mindset will make things easier as a developer. It's a mature attitude that will take you far.
I'll start by addressing each point you made about your current attitude.
I can't say I'm not guilty of this sometimes, but just don't go too overboard. If your games aren't contributing to your financial stability, then it's not good to sacrifice too much sleep to them. (Though keep in mind that this is coming from a person with a completely obsessive work schedule XD)
This is just untrue. If downloads were truly a sign of merit, Pom Gets Wifi would be the best game on this site. It isn't. Reviews are also not a great indicator, as everyone has their own biases and different reviewers give different scores based on their own personal scoring systems.
If all of your reviews were low star, then some players will probably avoid the game, sure, but not all players do that. I often play games that have a low review, if I like the concept.
Very, very untrue. A developer can make an excellent game but get very few (or none at all for awhile) downloads just because s/he isn't good at self-promoting and marketing. Also, downloads ties back into popularity, and popularity isn't a good measure of quality (See my earlier Pom example).
Nothing wrong with having a great work-ethic, and again, I work obsessively myself most of the time. However, I do find taking breaks to play others games or play AAA games on occasion can really help. (Hell, I'll take a break just to work on a different game a lot XD)
Yes and no. A review is pretty much a service to you, as a developer. It's a crafted piece of feedback that took some time and effort. So being rude, insulting, or dismissive of a review can certainly make you look bad. It also may make other developers not want to play your game, because, hey, if you yelled at this guy who gave you a bad review, then others will think that taking the time to review your game might be a waste of time if you're going to get upset at criticism.
There is a middle ground. You can gracefully and respectfully disagree with a review. However, you have to not take the review personally and be respectful. It helps if you avoid sounding confrontational or hostile and you don't sweep the entire review under the rug. The reviewer did spend time to talk about your game, after all.
This is the one I disagree with the most, probably. The first game I released on this site was Luxaren Allure, and as soon as I released my first demo, I got a lot of constructive criticism pointing out a lot of valid mistakes I had made. I don't think that makes me or my game look shitty at all, because I took the advice seriously and reworked things to fix my mistakes.
We're all human, and no matter how good any of us get as developers, there's always room for improvement. I don't expect that I'll ever make a game that couldn't be improved on, and I don't think anyone else will, either. Criticism on your gamepage is a sign of your growth as a developer, not weakness or overall poor quality.
All in all, I find the mindset of not tying your own happiness and satisfaction to your game's downloads, reviews, and comments to be a good one. As Kylaila said, doing otherwise is giving a lot of power over how you feel to other people. It's never a good idea to let random strangers have absolute power about how you feel about your game or your self-worth as a developer. It's not easy and I'm still struggling with it myself, but you can do it, and it's rewarding. It doesn't mean discarding criticism, it means not letting criticism tear you to pieces.
I'll start by addressing each point you made about your current attitude.
author=VVBlastFuryVV
-Always finish your daily goal in making your RPG. If you fail then sacrifice sleep.
I can't say I'm not guilty of this sometimes, but just don't go too overboard. If your games aren't contributing to your financial stability, then it's not good to sacrifice too much sleep to them. (Though keep in mind that this is coming from a person with a completely obsessive work schedule XD)
author=VVBlastFuryVV
-Alot of downloads and reviews are necessary for your game to be good and to be even looked at as good.
This is just untrue. If downloads were truly a sign of merit, Pom Gets Wifi would be the best game on this site. It isn't. Reviews are also not a great indicator, as everyone has their own biases and different reviewers give different scores based on their own personal scoring systems.
author=VVBlastFuryVV
Low star review = nobody will ever look at your game.
If all of your reviews were low star, then some players will probably avoid the game, sure, but not all players do that. I often play games that have a low review, if I like the concept.
author=VVBlastFuryVV
No downloads = bad game.
Very, very untrue. A developer can make an excellent game but get very few (or none at all for awhile) downloads just because s/he isn't good at self-promoting and marketing. Also, downloads ties back into popularity, and popularity isn't a good measure of quality (See my earlier Pom example).
author=VVBlastFuryVV
Breaks? What are breaks? Never heard of such a thing.
Nothing wrong with having a great work-ethic, and again, I work obsessively myself most of the time. However, I do find taking breaks to play others games or play AAA games on occasion can really help. (Hell, I'll take a break just to work on a different game a lot XD)
author=VVBlastFuryVV
-Being negative in a low star review where everyone can see it will get you a bad rep and the people arguing against you will probably despise your guts from here on out.
Yes and no. A review is pretty much a service to you, as a developer. It's a crafted piece of feedback that took some time and effort. So being rude, insulting, or dismissive of a review can certainly make you look bad. It also may make other developers not want to play your game, because, hey, if you yelled at this guy who gave you a bad review, then others will think that taking the time to review your game might be a waste of time if you're going to get upset at criticism.
There is a middle ground. You can gracefully and respectfully disagree with a review. However, you have to not take the review personally and be respectful. It helps if you avoid sounding confrontational or hostile and you don't sweep the entire review under the rug. The reviewer did spend time to talk about your game, after all.
author=VVBlastFuryVV
-Getting your game bashed with criticism without a means to recover from it makes your game page look bad and you especially because it looks like you made a horrible shitty game.
This is the one I disagree with the most, probably. The first game I released on this site was Luxaren Allure, and as soon as I released my first demo, I got a lot of constructive criticism pointing out a lot of valid mistakes I had made. I don't think that makes me or my game look shitty at all, because I took the advice seriously and reworked things to fix my mistakes.
We're all human, and no matter how good any of us get as developers, there's always room for improvement. I don't expect that I'll ever make a game that couldn't be improved on, and I don't think anyone else will, either. Criticism on your gamepage is a sign of your growth as a developer, not weakness or overall poor quality.
All in all, I find the mindset of not tying your own happiness and satisfaction to your game's downloads, reviews, and comments to be a good one. As Kylaila said, doing otherwise is giving a lot of power over how you feel to other people. It's never a good idea to let random strangers have absolute power about how you feel about your game or your self-worth as a developer. It's not easy and I'm still struggling with it myself, but you can do it, and it's rewarding. It doesn't mean discarding criticism, it means not letting criticism tear you to pieces.
VVBlastFuryVV
221
Let me ask you this - do you really believe downloads and reviews are all there is to it? Do you think that games here are always great if they have and always bad if they have not?
No, I don't think so at all. Even if a game has a ton of downloads and reviews that are good, I don't think it exactly guarantees you that you will like the game. In the end, you can never please everyone because everyone's perspectives of something is different.
Instead of trying to make a masterpiece when you first pick up your pencil, make a lot of small games - jam games, experiments - and learn everything you can about the process. Just make a huge quantity of things; you don't have to release them publicly.
Surprisingly enough, I've almost finished a 2-hour game that helped me learn how to gam mak as I do now. (I released it here but then I deleted it. I don't even know why. But over the years I've been here, if anything's improved it's definitely been my writing with story and characters. Or at the least, have a good sense as to what they are.)
40-hour epic that stays incredibly satisfying the whole way through
Pfft! What kind of idiot makes a 40-hour epic that tries staying satisfying with its story and gameplay throughout everything?! Certainly not me!
But to be honest, the last two points show a lot about how you view gam mak here, and the role of yourself in it. A bad game does not necessarily make a bad dev. A bad game does not say jack shit about your worth as a person or as part of this community.
Yeah, I agree. Just because you don't necessarily make the best games doesn't really mean that you're the worst person in the universe.
Don't worry about negative reviews - certainly, don't bash the reviewer, and try to avoid being overly depressed about 'em. They're going to happen. Take 'em in stride, learn what you can, thank the reviewer for taking the time to review it, and move on to the next game.
Haha, I can't say I haven't bashed a reviewer hardcore before who doesn't like my games.
I can't say I'm not guilty of this sometimes, but just don't go too overboard. If your games aren't contributing to your financial stability, then it's not good to sacrifice too much sleep to them. (Though keep in mind that this is coming from a person with a completely obsessive work schedule XD)
FINALLY, someone who understands me! I won't not say that it's fun sacrificing sleep, working on your game and putting on your type of music then for some reason rocking your head while working on your game at like 3 AM.
If all of your reviews were low star, then some players will probably avoid the game, sure, but not all players do that. I often play games that have a low review, if I like the concept.
Ah, yeah. I always thought that people often avoid your game because the game seems like a waste of time, which is mainly why I've hated when people bashed my game, and it's happened alot of times. Some I take the hits, others I burst hard at.
If downloads were truly a sign of merit, Pom Gets Wifi would be the best game on this site. It isn't. Reviews are also not a great indicator, as everyone has their own biases and different reviewers give different scores based on their own personal scoring systems.
It's pretty hilarious that everyone jokes around about how good Pom Gets Wifi is; then again, it's not exactly a game to be ever taken seriously. In all seriousness though, I don't even know how it got so much downloads lol. Probably because Pewdiepie LP'd it? Well, either away, I agree.
I work obsessively myself most of the time. However, I do find taking breaks to play others games or play AAA games on occasion can really help. (Hell, I'll take a break just to work on a different game a lot XD)
I usually take a break at times to catch up on anime and manga, and usually marathon them then take a day to reminisce how awesome it was.
The first game I released on this site was Luxaren Allure
YES! I love that game! xD oh pfft sorry back to the original topic.
and as soon as I released my first demo, I got a lot of constructive criticism pointing out a lot of valid mistakes I had made. I don't think that makes me or my game look shitty at all, because I took the advice seriously and reworked things to fix my mistakes.
Yeah, I did the same thing for my game when I got criticism for errors that occur throughout the game, like script-crashing ones. It's actually embarrassing when I go back and think about it. Though, whenever I work on my story, apply it to RPG Maker and give it to my beta testers getting good feedback and CC, I'm always excited to open up RPG Maker and fix the problems. That's probably also a good attitude.
We're all human, and no matter how good any of us get as developers, there's always room for improvement.
Human? I'm actually a Shinigami.
It's never a good idea to let random strangers have absolute power about how you feel about your game or your self-worth as a developer. It's not easy and I'm still struggling with it myself, but you can do it, and it's rewarding.
And that's the thing - because it really is rewarding and it changes your mindset as a game dev. I don't have much experience as the greatest game devs per say, but I definitely do have a lot of experience in writing characters and story, which is fun as hell.
I find that if I am stuck inebriation sometimes help.
Whoah whoah, drinking's bad, my man.
Kind of a really long post, but thanks guys. This helps alot. Now to spam this new mindset of mine so it ends up overpowering the old mindset and eventually taking over.
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