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Why RPG and not action adventure?

Are you making an RPG out of genuine love of RPG mechanics (numbers going up) or is it because we're used to having RPGs as the 'storytelling genre'...or both?

There have been times when I've looked at certain ideas and thought 'why is this an RPG again?' and had to reassess things. It's easy to get stuck in a pattern where you take the DBS for granted and think about everything BUT the battle system, and that doesn't feel right to me. Thankfully, a playthrough of Dragon Quest 3 -- as pure a JRPG as you can get -- reassured me that I do like the genre.

If there was an 'Action Adventure Maker' as easy to use as RPG Maker (And was not bad, like IGM), would you jump ship? Heck, 'FPS-along-the-lines-of-Deus-Ex maker'...?

And your game ideas -- do they start with a mechanic or a story idea?

Mapping Standards and Commercial Games

I notice that the RPG Community champion 'quality mapping' -- and rightly so.

I have noticed that commercial developers don't *necessarily* put effort into their maps (You see things like wide open spaces, simple square mapsetc.), and I don't *necessarily* get turned off by simple mapping, as long as it isn't detrimental to navigation or whatever.

But how about you? Have you ever been turned off by the *mapping* of a commercial RPG?

How do commercial developers design RPGs?

Maybe there isn't a set 'Way', but I wish we had more insight into the development process of an RPG. What is done when, etc. Yes, ultimately it comes down to what works for you but there is *so much* that goes into working on a RPG versus, say, a platformer.

Does anyone know anything about this? Are there any design documents out there? There is one for Planescape Torment I know as much... Heck, it doesn't have to be for an RPG really. They do it in the film world...

Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.

I don't think that fan games are inherently bad. I love seeing reinterprations of established works of fiction (It happens all the time in literature), but where the amateur RPG-making scene is concerned, they're rarely ever creative (And I don't think 'creative fangame' is an oxymoron)

I like the idea of playing with an established universe. You might pick up a plot or character element in a story and think 'hey, why didn't they do anything' with that? Or 'What if I took this to mean this instead of that' and run with it.' This is what. The Final Fantasy fan games, unfortunately, the creators tend to make up original stories and slap the Final Fantasy title onto them. Either that, or it's one messy 'fan-collage' of Cloud and Squall and Nathanial and Pixie and Akinu-chan and Sora and Ichigo and'. Or remakes of games that don't even deserve remakes.

I think, considering the software, fan games could make things easier, because some of us tend to underestimate how difficult worldbuilding, pixel art, etc. is. If you were to decide to make a fan RPG based on the Kirby series with a Final Fantasy style job system using Kirby's forms, it's just a matter of picking a Kirby game and doing a great deal of editing . Maybe it would be a good RPG-making 'stepping stone'.

I don't know...what do you think? Has anyone had any interesting ideas for a fan game?

Is it just me, or are battles where it all goes wrong for RM games?

You'll take this as a 'hate on the RPG Making community thread' but I don't mean it like that, honest. It's just an observation (I'm sure you'll move this to Game Design if it doesn't fit here)...

When I usually play an RPG Maker game, even if I'm somewhat interested by the premise or setting or aesthetics blahwhatever, as soon as I reach the first battle THAT'S when I become disenchanted with the game. It's as if I'm falling back into a tired routine. It doesn't matter if your game reminds me of Earthbound or if it's atmospheric or retro blah blah

Does this happen with commercial RPGs with bog-standard battles (Of which there are plenty)? Sometimes. But while, say, FF1 is quite bog standard, the whole party creation system made me stick through it longer than I have normally. I'm wondering that even if RM developers are limited to a certain kind of battle system (at least on the surface), there's at least the option of introducing gimmicks like this to make battles feel less obligatory.

Tbqh, it makes me realise just how much battles (If that's what you're going for) are THE meat of the game, and I'm saying that as a non-mathematical person who doesn't know about strategy and formulas and whatnot.

Before, I used to make games in RPG Maker and think to myself...WHY am I making this an RPG? Is it just because it has a story, and characters? Would this not work better as an action game? And I begin to realise that I'm not really paying enough attention to the battles. And if I'm deciding to have a battle system in my game, I better have a damn good reason.

Ugh, game design is not to be underestimated.

2D RPGs with a good city design?

I'm drafting up a city for one of the locations in my game but it's proving quite difficult. I need something to look at for inspiration, aside from photos of real cities.

Does anyone know of any 2D top-down RPGs (commercial or non) in which the city looks and feels like a real city? From the top of my head, Shut Up and Jam isn't that bad.

Thanks

Let's discuss puzzle design!

Puzzles in dungeons are good -- I like my RPGs to have non-battle challenges. Most RPGs don't get by purely the design of their battle systems, so let's not pretend that's the case ( The ones that do, like the various SRPGs, and Pokemon are perfectly fine without puzzles). To me, there's nothing less satisfying than being plopped into a pointless maze, which do NOT feel like exploration or whatever rubbish people like to pass them off as. It's just lazy (Exception: Etrian Odyssey)

But how do you go about designing puzzles, anyway? Real-life can be a great source -- Shigeru Miyamoto losing himself in a house with hundreds of sliding doors, was his inspiration for the original Legend of Zelda dungeons. Another route is directly adapting popular puzzles, brainteasers, etc. to your dungeons, but that's not even trying, is it? (You don't HAVE to have teleporter puzzles -- your game is free to have its own identity, you know!)

It's not an RPG, but Link's Awakening had an interesting part where an NPC told you to find the key in his backyard -- which at first glance looks like a batch of weeds you have to simply cut through, but upon falling through the holes *beneath* those weeds several times, you realise that you need a strategy to get through. THAT design inspired me. It was surprising, and didn't feel imposing (I think many RPGs tend to relegate puzzles to ghettos known as dungeons, which interrupt the flow of the PLOT stuff) and it was consistent with the game world.

Lufia 2 is my other example of good puzzle design in an RPG. Although many of the Lufia puzzles were abstract, puzzles ranged from minor challenges such as walking across dangerous patches of ground to full blown Zelda-style 'puzzle events'. The quantity and variation of puzzles meant that you were always on your feet and there was none of that typical dungeon slog where the focus is dragging yourself through. However, my problem with that game is that the puzzles COMPLETELY overshadowed the combat/plot (I can see why they're remaking it as an action RPG), so there's a problem in itself.

So, what are your thoughts about puzzles? How do you design them? What makes a good puzzle?

'I love RPGs because I love to explore worlds' -- Do you really believe this?

I've read many threads inviting posters to explain why they like RPGs, and a common answer is 'because I like to explore worlds.'

While I do not intend to disrespect anyone's, I think it's a bit of claptrap. You have games like Shenmue, Tim Schafer's games or even Fallout which (Hell, Super Mario Galaxy is probably one of the best examples of this..maybe we can extend this to games in general) that actually whisk me away to other worlds, but in your average Final Fantasy the setting feels more like a backdrop than an actual world, and in my experience, the games that genuinely 'transport' me to another world are the exception, not the rule (When it does happen, I'm usually blown away).

So whenever I design an RPG, I think how I can make the world feel real. I like Earthbound's example of allowing the player to access a bakery, a fast food restaurant or a convenience store to get health items, instead of just having the one convenience store. So when I'm designing, I tend to think about these micro-elements, or little interactive features which help bring the world to life. When I'm in RPG Maker, I feel guilty just dragging a bit of grass here or plopping a tree here or table or bookcase there, or making a forest because 'that's just what you do.' If I *do* do that, it's only a placeholder.

And maybe it's to do with the setting, too? Most RPGs could take place in the same world if you merged them. I read stories by Borges or watch films by Pixar, in which truly unfamiliar worlds are presented, and I'd like to play a game that plops you in a setting where your first instinct isn't to 'find the cave', or you are constantly experiencing some aspect of culture or geography in which you can actually interact with/experience. I guess this is why I like game designers such as Tim Schafer (Grim Fandango, Psychonauts), Yoshiaki Koizumi (Super Mario Galaxy) and of course, Shigeru Miyamoto.

This is what I'd like to explore when designing games. This doesn't even necessarily apply to 'WIDE OPEN WHOLE WORLDS' games, but even small one hour games.What's fantastic is that the RPG Maker games allow us to make this kind of thing work -- I think The Mirror Lied does this to an extent, and maybe Yume Nikki...except the latter has originality but no interaction. Which makes it pretty boring.
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