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A lesson in life

I think you misunderstood,i d'int say that i,ll make a game like "hardcore xbox fan" in four days or anything like that.Also after all if i dont take a break then i,lll fell sleppy and might not think clearly as example dizzynes and feble mind (not able not think fast cause of insufficient sleep).And more but not to bore ya.So no, i,m not making a game and finish it all of sudden.I,m working when i have free time on it because its my hobby,but that doesnt mean i dont take it seriously.So dont put words in my mouth like that,as if you think you understand me and judge me only based on my words.Also it just happened that i could only response later so what can i do.Bad luck...

I think you've misconstrued my response as well, sir as well as misinterpreted my intended audience. In no way was I aiming my comment at you, in fact I actually glazed over it because there was so little written there and I don't really care about your personal experience with RPG Maker, just the discussion at hand. Karsuman posed a question regarding the definition of effort within the community, I gave my two cents.

Now if you feel like I was attacking you personally, then something must have struck true with you so you should think about that. I also did not put MY words into YOUR mouth because I never referenced you throughout the entire comment, perhaps you misunderstood how to use that phrase in proper context. I don't have a personal problem with you, but before you respond to anything think it through next time.

A lesson in life

I think that there should have been a better response accompanying the denial. It wasn't constructive enough to help the person as a game maker, and a rude response is also very detrimental to this.

In terms of the discussion, effort is definitely about putting more than a few days' or hours' worth of work into creating the game. It's fine to mess around with a program and create something quick for yourself in your own time, but if you take programming seriously, regardless of whether it's a hobby or something you'd like to do professionally you should work in a manner that reflects that desire. That means, more than just four days of work. That means writing out a scenario script, ideating characters and plot points, over all researching, among other things before you even begin programming. Granted there are contests on this website that push programmers to develop things in a limited amount of time, this doesn't mean that people should be submitting games that are half hearted.

It is quite passionate to spend four days straight developing a game without food, drink, or sleep. It is also absurd and a little ridiculous. A decent game is very unlikely to have been conceived within four days' time. I've never observed this happening before, at least. Even the competitions here end up receiving works that are very limited in their scope and although they are fun to play, they aren't any where near feeling complete and fully fleshed out.

Effort is all about the work that's put into a piece, not the passion. Those are two different aspects to the human character.


Not sure if anyone's still paying attention to this essay, but... Any way to do this in Paint Shop Pro 10? I don't use Photoshop.

Hey Zytharros, sorry for the late reply. I'll get back to you on that as soon as I take a look at Paint Shop.

Why Plagiarism Matters

Wow, everyone's so angry now...

See what I did there? I made a blanket statement.

Why Plagiarism Matters

To say "nothing" is ever original anymore is missing the point, I think. Art isn't composed of new thought, it is reaction to old thought, and new people can give ideas new spins that make for an end result that can be very different than the original influences. I've never really bought into the idea that that everything has been done so there's no point in trying to be original. I think that's a bad trap to fall into.

This is true, but you're still going to get Jackson Pollock wannabes trying to get into art school with 'drip' paintings. You're still going to get the Final Fantasy Rip-Offs and you're still going to see other peoples' ideas and resources being used with or without permission. Originality is a difficult thing because someone, somewhere will find something unoriginal about what others may consider super original.

Why Plagiarism Matters

That is not the same thing as plagiarism.

Yeah but the topic went from blatant copying to the question of originality. I was just rolling with the punches.

Why Plagiarism Matters

Um, there are thousands of completely original indie games.

I doubt that there are that many original ideas. I meant for this statement to be a hyperbole. I wanted to illustrate the fact that everything being created is simply rehashing or putting a 'new spin' on an old idea. Perhaps I'm wrong and all these new indie games are truly original with no roots in anything, but it still doesn't disprove the fact that thousands more are just rehashed ideas that were original at some point. That statement in itself is my point, though. It's impossible to make something completely 100% original. Even if you have this brilliant idea for a game and put it together and throw it out there, chances are that someone, somewhere will say "Hey, I've played something similar" or "Hey, that looks just like..."

Why Plagiarism Matters

Oh and as an added note, when was the last time anyone here saw a completely original game on this website or any other amateur/indie game website with graphics/music/story or anything that wasn't stolen or re-appropriated from someone or somewhere else? I'd say that you'd be hard-pressed to find something like that anywhere on the internet. I'd say that only a slim maybe 5-10% of all the amateur games being made out there have everything made completely from scratch.

I think that this argument is more about unspoken rules and codes of conduct rather than anything legal or set in stone and to prove it, regardless of whether or not some new wave of thinking comes across the game making community there will continue to be games with graphics/music/sounds/parts of stories from other games. Lest we forget that a majority of these makers are probably under the age of 18 and most of them still have yet to finish puberty.

I doubt that half those kids have the time to sit down and write a complete story and make all the graphics for a game and do completely flawless programming. That's why rips, tutorials, articles, and all that exist. A lot of them don't even know what the word 'plagiarism' means nor do they understand the concept of giving credit to others or such.

If you want to get mad at anyone, get mad at all the people that should know better, and even then determining who to be mad at and all that is all subjective. If people are really that concerned about getting their stuff stolen, they should either not post their stuff online, or take better care of searching out all the people using their stolen stuff. Or maybe RMN and every other indie game website should have tighter restrictions and regulations about this kind of stuff.

Why Plagiarism Matters

And Fair Use does not cover something just because it is not being sold.

I never said Fair Use covers noncommercial usage but I did say that whatever we make is liable to be stolen. If people make things and post them on the internet, chances are that people will steal things in part or in whole from what we make--that's the nature of the internet. It pisses people off but that's what we get for putting our stuff up on the world wide web.

Now that's not to say that I'm justifying those people's actions because like I said, it pisses people off, me included. For that reason, people need to become more aware of these kinds of things. But back to my original point, there's a statement that says "There is nothing original under the sun" and that might be true. That's why Fair Use is there and that's why we also have to be aware of our own rights as well as the rights of others and how to not step on toes.

Why Plagiarism Matters

A lot of this article seems to deal with the issue of cliches as well as the issue of plagiarism. When it comes to ripping stuff from other professional games, that is a matter that is in a legal realm all on its own; however, there is a little something called fair use which applies to everything and anything created by everyone.

It basically says that as long as you don't make any money off the property being used or pass it off as your own without altering it more than 20% then it is okay to use copyrighted works without the permission of the copyright owner. So it's basically alright for us to use ripped graphics from old SNES games because we're not making any money off the games we make and unless someone is passing off old graphics as their own then it's not a problem.

Because we as amateurs don't have the means nor the resources to copyright these kinds of things without getting into legal ramifications of our own, anything and everything that we make is liable to be used as well. People are free to use the things we create without our permission so long as we are credited for it as long as they won't be making money off it.

Now all this legal mumbo jumbo may seem unfair but to protect our rights as creative people, these clauses are put into action otherwise, someone could legally justify the use of the sleepyhead boy saves the world as being stolen intellectual property and sue for that. If we didn't have these sorts of fair use laws then we would be hurting because so many disputes over originality may arise from them.

The way I see it, we can't stop people from using graphics legally but if someone isn't getting credit where credit is due or if we don't come out and say "Hey, I was inspired by such and such and such games or movies or whatever," then it is our responsibility as civil people and as a forum/community of creative, and logical people to say something about it.

In laymen's terms, the ability to use the words "fair use" to justify using someone else's graphics or stories prevents someone else from calling you out on plagiarism because your idea is this much similar to theirs.
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