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psy_wombats
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a 2.5d explorer/horror game about NEURAL-9, a memory disease that spreads via eye contact
a 2.5d explorer/horror game about NEURAL-9, a memory disease that spreads via eye contact
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[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
With the rules clarified and a scum dead I no longer think real seer should counterclaim. The last scum is /not/ immune to the seer's power and we'll know if Ratty is lying tomorrow for certain.
@Ratty I was mostly waiting because a counterclaim with deceit-like waiter would be a no-brained. If you're who you say you are that shouldn't be scary. Although I did forget hammer isn't a thing.
#lynch sooz
@IF Nah, you weren't that heavy on him late, but it was pretty much you and cave who backed me up after the slack thing with "yeah Ratty is probably scum." cave is innocent so that really just leaves you. Yes I know it seems stupid as hell to mistrust someone for agreeing with me, but assuming Ratty is honest, unless I've missed something major, the only ones I suspect are you, Cap_H, and YM.
@Liberty Forgot to mention, if sooz doesn't flip scum, tell Frogge to poison the hell out of Ratty.
@Cave why YM over Cap_H or IF?
Also about the waiter actually swapping roles... that's super weird, and a huge shame marrend got modkilled, scum could've "recruited" a substitute scum by swapping with Marrend during the night, hilariously enough. This also means the waiter's power is pretty much useless: it's pointless to swap scum with scum, pointless to swap scum with town (because now there's a townie that knows who scum is), and pointless to swap town with town (because scum has no idea who has what role more than town does, and would just be killing claimed roles).
So: why swap CAVE, and with whom? Two guesses. Could be with lockez (no idea why, but it explains why no one else received a PM). Other possibility is they swapped with a former town who is now scum, because CAVE was the last scumteam. They effectively recruited a replacement mafia. Someone tell me if that's a stupid idea.
@Ratty I was mostly waiting because a counterclaim with deceit-like waiter would be a no-brained. If you're who you say you are that shouldn't be scary. Although I did forget hammer isn't a thing.
#lynch sooz
@IF Nah, you weren't that heavy on him late, but it was pretty much you and cave who backed me up after the slack thing with "yeah Ratty is probably scum." cave is innocent so that really just leaves you. Yes I know it seems stupid as hell to mistrust someone for agreeing with me, but assuming Ratty is honest, unless I've missed something major, the only ones I suspect are you, Cap_H, and YM.
@Liberty Forgot to mention, if sooz doesn't flip scum, tell Frogge to poison the hell out of Ratty.
@Cave why YM over Cap_H or IF?
Also about the waiter actually swapping roles... that's super weird, and a huge shame marrend got modkilled, scum could've "recruited" a substitute scum by swapping with Marrend during the night, hilariously enough. This also means the waiter's power is pretty much useless: it's pointless to swap scum with scum, pointless to swap scum with town (because now there's a townie that knows who scum is), and pointless to swap town with town (because scum has no idea who has what role more than town does, and would just be killing claimed roles).
So: why swap CAVE, and with whom? Two guesses. Could be with lockez (no idea why, but it explains why no one else received a PM). Other possibility is they swapped with a former town who is now scum, because CAVE was the last scumteam. They effectively recruited a replacement mafia. Someone tell me if that's a stupid idea.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
uh, ninja'd. welp.
Gourd is cleared. Liberty consider changed your Frogge poisoning target to just IF if sooz flips scum. Scum will be unable to block if because spiceman is dead, and IF was heavy into defending Marrend and heavy into attacking Ratty.
Gourd is cleared. Liberty consider changed your Frogge poisoning target to just IF if sooz flips scum. Scum will be unable to block if because spiceman is dead, and IF was heavy into defending Marrend and heavy into attacking Ratty.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
Yeah someone back me up on this, but I think if the real seer's out there, they should come forward. Seer's going to be severely handicapped past tonight, and counterclaiming Ratty now would save sooz and save us a day.
@Ratty Sorry haha. I don't really have any explicit reason to disbelieve you because your actions on day 1 line up pretty well with lying low, and this would be the second time my scum radar went crazy for town-with-important-role instead of actual scum. But if the real carrot eater steps forward to counterclaim I won't exactly be shocked. You're good enough where if you were pinned I think you'd be able to take someone down with you.
@IF Ratty will be proven correct if sooz flips what he called. The only possible way this could be faked is if 1) swapping roles is actually silent and 2) cave is scum. We can be pretty sure.
@Ratty Sorry haha. I don't really have any explicit reason to disbelieve you because your actions on day 1 line up pretty well with lying low, and this would be the second time my scum radar went crazy for town-with-important-role instead of actual scum. But if the real carrot eater steps forward to counterclaim I won't exactly be shocked. You're good enough where if you were pinned I think you'd be able to take someone down with you.
@IF Ratty will be proven correct if sooz flips what he called. The only possible way this could be faked is if 1) swapping roles is actually silent and 2) cave is scum. We can be pretty sure.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
I reread sooz's rebuttal, it's not exactly convincing. That she had to *consider* voting for someone else other than Ratty after what for her would be a blatant scumlaced lie is pretty bad. It's not a petty vote if someone's faking a claim on you, they're pretty obviously scum.
Oh, also Ratty, post your thoughts on who else could be mafia. You'll be vindicated tomorrow (unfortunately because you'll probably be dead) and we'll be able to trust your reasoning to hopefully avenge you. Sorry for going after you for that slack thing, but... that was pretty bad, sorry haha.
Do we know for sure when the end of day is?
Oh, also Ratty, post your thoughts on who else could be mafia. You'll be vindicated tomorrow (unfortunately because you'll probably be dead) and we'll be able to trust your reasoning to hopefully avenge you. Sorry for going after you for that slack thing, but... that was pretty bad, sorry haha.
Do we know for sure when the end of day is?
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
#cancel
Hey Ratty, what made you decide to investigate sooz night 1? That seems a really weird choice, but by the same logic, if you were scum, sooz is a really weird choice to pin this on. This at least explains why your argument against her was so obviously constructed backwards though.
I'm trying to decide if it's a good idea for the real seer (if one exists) to counterclaim. I think it is. Past tonight, all but 1 of the mafia will be disguised via the waiter and immune to the seer's powers. At that point, the seer would be more likely to get a false result than a positive one, in other words, a pretty weak role. Counterclaiming now gives us an extra day to work with.
Assuming cave is not scum and lying about his PM, we will know for sure between ratty and sooz tomorrow.
Hey Ratty, what made you decide to investigate sooz night 1? That seems a really weird choice, but by the same logic, if you were scum, sooz is a really weird choice to pin this on. This at least explains why your argument against her was so obviously constructed backwards though.
I'm trying to decide if it's a good idea for the real seer (if one exists) to counterclaim. I think it is. Past tonight, all but 1 of the mafia will be disguised via the waiter and immune to the seer's powers. At that point, the seer would be more likely to get a false result than a positive one, in other words, a pretty weak role. Counterclaiming now gives us an extra day to work with.
Assuming cave is not scum and lying about his PM, we will know for sure between ratty and sooz tomorrow.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
author=Liberty
Fact is, even if he is town he's not helping the rest of us out. It's not just three people talking here, meaning that it's not just mafia yakking it up, but a townie who doesn't talk and share isn't helpful at all.
At least if he was putting up a defence we'd know that he's invested in the game.
I'm kind of out of it right now but my understanding is just that Marrend is not at all invested in the game, town or scum. Go look at what happened with Tunger last game. In the previous games Marrend was in was he active at all? Or just sort of there? I've yet to see lurky mafia on rmn - closest was blob and he was obvious from a mile away based on voting patterns.
I am also very dubious of voting based solely on a message which is 1) from scum 2) implicates marrend and 3) has no obvious other purpose
I'm not unhappy with a marrend vote per se I stand by my ratty vote, and I think you should all seriously consider if you're going to lynch a lurker vs someone who's been actively spreading garbage all day. Liberty if you're looking for names for that list to get to Frogge I'd refer you to my previous post.
also these deceit-like mechanics are very aggravating to be on the other side of, even if marrend's scum there's a 1/3 chance we'll never know it
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
@Cave I actually think it was clever to target you. If they accidentally targeted someone with a job, when the scum flipped, the person who originally had that job would be able to identify them as actually scum. Targeting you negates that chance. Also, I think it would've been really hilarious for scumteam to send you that "YOU'RE SCUM MORON" PM regardless of whether you were mafia or not haha
@Gourd this is where I'm at right now:
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=757847#post757847
My best bet for a scumteam right now is Ratty/IF/Marrend. I haven't studied how Marrend's been interacting in this topic so he's the less solid of that bunch for sure, but Ratty backed him up pretty well. Ratty and IF have had a decent set of interactions that make me think "cooperation" plus Ratty's individual signs. IF has been pretty decent today though. I'm confident only one of Ratty or sooz is mafia. I have no way to tell if Cap_H is mafia or not so I'm just gonna pray he isn't.
If scum have used some unknown mechanic to make piano's breadcrumb claim safe though, I'd be positive the team is piano/ratty/IF but I don't see how they could've done it.
@Gourd this is where I'm at right now:
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=757847#post757847
My best bet for a scumteam right now is Ratty/IF/Marrend. I haven't studied how Marrend's been interacting in this topic so he's the less solid of that bunch for sure, but Ratty backed him up pretty well. Ratty and IF have had a decent set of interactions that make me think "cooperation" plus Ratty's individual signs. IF has been pretty decent today though. I'm confident only one of Ratty or sooz is mafia. I have no way to tell if Cap_H is mafia or not so I'm just gonna pray he isn't.
If scum have used some unknown mechanic to make piano's breadcrumb claim safe though, I'd be positive the team is piano/ratty/IF but I don't see how they could've done it.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
I see nothing compelling in ratty's argument and mostly what his attack is doing is convincing me that he's guilty and she isn't. If sooz is scum he found her out by chance. It's very clear to me that he's simply gone through all of her posts or statements with the intention of finding something wrong with each of them. In other words, he's arguing the wrong way: fitting the evidence to his conclusion, not the conclusion to his evidence.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
Thanks Odd. I'm not as 100% it's Ratty then, and it's starting to look like implicating Ratty means either implicating or diregarding piano. Randomly grilling sooz is not helping though for sure.
@ratty: You gave that justification when I asked why you chose YM out of the slack lineup as opposed to someone like me, who actually is on slack on a regular basis. Also you should switch your vote to someone else.
@IF: Fair enough. I've mostly been frustrated this game more than anything.
For the record, the people who I trust in this game are pretty much only cave, YM, Gourd, possibly sooz, and (stupidly I'm sure) piano. They're the only ones who've put forward reasoning I understand without triggering scum alarms.
@Frogge We're not lynching cave tonight. I know you're /convinced/ he's scum, and I'm not trying to be hard on you here, but you're not in the best position to reason about who is and isn't scum. That you thought it was possible Liberty was still scum should convince yourself that you need to take a second look at your opinions here. If you'd like to live through today, choose a better target, because it's looking like you might end up as a consensus kill, which would be moderately annoying, but not exactly heartbreaking.
I hate listing this because I know I'm just going to embarass myself later, but the following people I'm reasonably sure aren't scum:
- Liberty, for obvious reasons (but she's been so off in her reasoning I'm heavily discounting her opinions, sorry Lib)
- cave, lying about that role swap PM would put him in a very large amount of danger
- Odd, if he's lying about that PM he's a really good actor and I'm happy to lose to him
- Gourd, if he was lying about the gourdface PM, he could've presented it in a way that would've more heavily implied Marrend's authorship... this is shaky if Marrend is scum but I'll trust Gourd anyway
- piano, claiming breadcrumb would open scum-piano up to unpredictable counterclaims from real breadcrumb to no discernable benefit... if someone can explain how scum could be sure breadcrumb was cautious or cooperative, I'll be happy to suspect him again
- Frogge, for similar reasons to piano, and the poisoner clearly did not cooperate with scum last night
This leaves under suspicion: Ratty, IF, Marrend, YM, sooz, Cap_H
@ratty: You gave that justification when I asked why you chose YM out of the slack lineup as opposed to someone like me, who actually is on slack on a regular basis. Also you should switch your vote to someone else.
@IF: Fair enough. I've mostly been frustrated this game more than anything.
For the record, the people who I trust in this game are pretty much only cave, YM, Gourd, possibly sooz, and (stupidly I'm sure) piano. They're the only ones who've put forward reasoning I understand without triggering scum alarms.
@Frogge We're not lynching cave tonight. I know you're /convinced/ he's scum, and I'm not trying to be hard on you here, but you're not in the best position to reason about who is and isn't scum. That you thought it was possible Liberty was still scum should convince yourself that you need to take a second look at your opinions here. If you'd like to live through today, choose a better target, because it's looking like you might end up as a consensus kill, which would be moderately annoying, but not exactly heartbreaking.
I hate listing this because I know I'm just going to embarass myself later, but the following people I'm reasonably sure aren't scum:
- Liberty, for obvious reasons (but she's been so off in her reasoning I'm heavily discounting her opinions, sorry Lib)
- cave, lying about that role swap PM would put him in a very large amount of danger
- Odd, if he's lying about that PM he's a really good actor and I'm happy to lose to him
- Gourd, if he was lying about the gourdface PM, he could've presented it in a way that would've more heavily implied Marrend's authorship... this is shaky if Marrend is scum but I'll trust Gourd anyway
- piano, claiming breadcrumb would open scum-piano up to unpredictable counterclaims from real breadcrumb to no discernable benefit... if someone can explain how scum could be sure breadcrumb was cautious or cooperative, I'll be happy to suspect him again
- Frogge, for similar reasons to piano, and the poisoner clearly did not cooperate with scum last night
This leaves under suspicion: Ratty, IF, Marrend, YM, sooz, Cap_H
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