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psy_wombats
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a 2.5d explorer/horror game about NEURAL-9, a memory disease that spreads via eye contact
a 2.5d explorer/horror game about NEURAL-9, a memory disease that spreads via eye contact
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[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
author=InfectionFiles
@psy- oh come on, man. that's a bit of a reach on me. yes we have a daykill (lynch) that can be influenced by scum. Having TWO of them is dangerous. it wouldn't even be an issue if Frogge didn't role claim and just targeted whoever he wanted.
Frogges chance at a kill can be influenced by mafia, whereas normally it wouldn't without his bold offer.
I feel like you would agree with me if you were town. Like you get what I'm saying, right?
No, I don't understand, sorry. How is an extra daykill dangerous purely by virtue of having two of them? You consider Frogge's judgment calls to be /safer/? Ignoring the fact that Frogge's never going to hit scum in the first place.
Do you or do you not think it's a good idea to kill Frogge today?
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
Yeah, no, they would never nightkill you and would only nightkill Frogge after exhausting all the spice powers on him and only if they thought he had a real chance of hitting them. But if we decided that we're going to kill Frogge if he doesn't manage to trigger a message tonight, then we've wasted a daykill and (potentially) saved the mafia a nightkill. Forcing town to lynch someone irrelevant is definitely worth using a power.
I'm hoping scum is too scared to blackmail Frogge because he's way too unpredictable for it haha.
I'm hoping scum is too scared to blackmail Frogge because he's way too unpredictable for it haha.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
@Gourd My guess is Frogge is a detriment to mafia for the reasons Ratty listed and they would love us to kill him. Piano is less of a detriment because he doesn't have the ability to randomly kill one of them. He's a detriment to us if he chooses to go rogue in the endgame but that's pretty much it. I just don't really trust him enough not to do it.
That's partially why I'm suspect of a IF/Liberty play to get us to vote Frogge, to save them a nightkill.
That's partially why I'm suspect of a IF/Liberty play to get us to vote Frogge, to save them a nightkill.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
@piano I don't think the spiceman would hesitate to block the kill if it could get town to waste a daykill first on you and then on Frogge. That'd be a pretty efficient use of resources if they do, in fact, want you dead.
Also it's not like there's any reason to sit on those powers. We've got no doctor to worry about in the endgame, and once the seer comes forward, the damage is done. Like the powers exist only for harassing seer and sk.
Also it's not like there's any reason to sit on those powers. We've got no doctor to worry about in the endgame, and once the seer comes forward, the damage is done. Like the powers exist only for harassing seer and sk.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
getting the weirdest sense of deja vu
For the record I backed up Frogge, but I admit to minimal scumhunting with the idea that it'll be more effective once we're out of "necessary kills" because there will be less innocents around, one way or the other.
I think the plan is useless because we're effectively letting mafia decide 1) whether piano lives or not, and consequently 2) whether Frogge lives or not. Without knowing the scum gameplan I don't like leaving them that choice. I also don't think Frogge has a good plan on how he acquires his targets. We should really reconsider both parts of this.
As for the scum themselves (assuming piano is irritating untown as opposed to bold mafia), I'm looking at Liberty. Her reasoning just in general seems off to me. The nolynch thing is pointless to reason about, but like here for instance: https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=755853#post755853
I don't see anyone could still be against a day 1 lynch with piano and frogge jumping out, plus she seemed pretty aggressive on Cave. The way she words things makes me think she was trying to bait the seer into investigating piano. I also buy zero of her suggested reasons for why Frogge might be faking his claim. None of the things listed are worth a mafia exposing themself.
IF has also been shifty. I don't understand why he would ever think it was "dangerous" for Frogge to offer another vote on a kill (https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=755710#post755710). The same logic applies to the daykill, of course scum can influence it, but that's not the point. It seems contrived. He also tries to convince Liberty to jump on board for voting against Frogge because of it, which I don't like.
I have no read on Ratty. He's just acting strange, nothing I'd consider scummy. It's possible that he changed his scum-MO to avoid detection because he was scum last game but I don't think he's scummier looking than anybody else.
For the record I backed up Frogge, but I admit to minimal scumhunting with the idea that it'll be more effective once we're out of "necessary kills" because there will be less innocents around, one way or the other.
I think the plan is useless because we're effectively letting mafia decide 1) whether piano lives or not, and consequently 2) whether Frogge lives or not. Without knowing the scum gameplan I don't like leaving them that choice. I also don't think Frogge has a good plan on how he acquires his targets. We should really reconsider both parts of this.
As for the scum themselves (assuming piano is irritating untown as opposed to bold mafia), I'm looking at Liberty. Her reasoning just in general seems off to me. The nolynch thing is pointless to reason about, but like here for instance: https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=755853#post755853
I don't see anyone could still be against a day 1 lynch with piano and frogge jumping out, plus she seemed pretty aggressive on Cave. The way she words things makes me think she was trying to bait the seer into investigating piano. I also buy zero of her suggested reasons for why Frogge might be faking his claim. None of the things listed are worth a mafia exposing themself.
IF has also been shifty. I don't understand why he would ever think it was "dangerous" for Frogge to offer another vote on a kill (https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=755710#post755710). The same logic applies to the daykill, of course scum can influence it, but that's not the point. It seems contrived. He also tries to convince Liberty to jump on board for voting against Frogge because of it, which I don't like.
I have no read on Ratty. He's just acting strange, nothing I'd consider scummy. It's possible that he changed his scum-MO to avoid detection because he was scum last game but I don't think he's scummier looking than anybody else.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
@frogge why CAVE? Because he has a dumb gimmick?
@piano Yes you're a "neutral" role in the sense that your win condition isn't the same as that of town or mafia, but when it comes down to it, you win with mafia. The neutrals have to go before the endgame almost as surely as scum (unless we trust you to keep your word and die town rather than win scum, which no offense I'm really leery of doing). I'm also not totally unconvinced you're pulling some gambit with Frogge, which would be pretty funny. I'm keeping this on you because I think you're scum at worst and a huge liability at best, and right now my top candidate for the day 1 lynch.
Where did you get the impression that PMs via butterspreader show up before other night actions?
Also because it seems to have gotten lost: Frogge's never going to be able to kill mafia if he announces his target beforehand. The spice salesman will block him. If we carry out piano's "Frogge poisons me, I vindicate Frogge" plan, it's trivial for scum to roleblock Frogge if they prefer piano to live. Or if he targets Cave as stated, mafia will let him through if Cave is town, and block if he's scum. I'm kind of losing faith in the idea that Frogge would ever be able to hit mafia.
@piano Yes you're a "neutral" role in the sense that your win condition isn't the same as that of town or mafia, but when it comes down to it, you win with mafia. The neutrals have to go before the endgame almost as surely as scum (unless we trust you to keep your word and die town rather than win scum, which no offense I'm really leery of doing). I'm also not totally unconvinced you're pulling some gambit with Frogge, which would be pretty funny. I'm keeping this on you because I think you're scum at worst and a huge liability at best, and right now my top candidate for the day 1 lynch.
Where did you get the impression that PMs via butterspreader show up before other night actions?
Also because it seems to have gotten lost: Frogge's never going to be able to kill mafia if he announces his target beforehand. The spice salesman will block him. If we carry out piano's "Frogge poisons me, I vindicate Frogge" plan, it's trivial for scum to roleblock Frogge if they prefer piano to live. Or if he targets Cave as stated, mafia will let him through if Cave is town, and block if he's scum. I'm kind of losing faith in the idea that Frogge would ever be able to hit mafia.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
You mean they could blackmail him into taking out a target of their choosing? That'd be as early as night 2. Butterspreader still needs a night to submit their threatening PM. I also don't put it past Frogge to completely reverse whatever plan is in place for him.
Frogge's kill makes him more helpful, not less. It's not his kill that screws up at the endgame, it's his vote.
Frogge's kill makes him more helpful, not less. It's not his kill that screws up at the endgame, it's his vote.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
yeah Sooz piano ain't mafia but he's anti-town.
Liberty I haven't played a game where you're town before but I've been pretty much unable to follow your logic from the start. If Cave's being honest he doesn't even know he's playing town, he hasn't said that. He's hurting whichever side he's actually on for his own amusement. So, sounds pretty Cave-like. As for Frogge I have no idea why you think it's more likely that there's some sort of grand deception going instead of thinking that Frogge just has a very silly idea of what constitutes good play.
Liberty I haven't played a game where you're town before but I've been pretty much unable to follow your logic from the start. If Cave's being honest he doesn't even know he's playing town, he hasn't said that. He's hurting whichever side he's actually on for his own amusement. So, sounds pretty Cave-like. As for Frogge I have no idea why you think it's more likely that there's some sort of grand deception going instead of thinking that Frogge just has a very silly idea of what constitutes good play.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
author=pianotm
How about, town has been losing every single game these past few months, and I'm really kind of sick of it, and so am doing my part to give town a leg up. Totally not my fault if people want to waste a lynch vote on a useless role. I've done what I can to help. If everyone else wants to undermine it, that's totally up to them.
You are correct in that by exposing yourself you've helped town significantly. Breadcrumb will betray town in the endgame. But because of that, optimal play from town isn't to let you off, it's to lynch you now. Otherwise you're pretty much asking us to trust you that you won't betray town in the end, and you're waaay too competent where I think that'd be a good idea.
[Game Over] Cheesecake Mafia
author=pianotm
Why wouldn't I? I've got a role that distracts the seer, who town can (one of these games, anyway) use to try and identify scum. Plus, if the seer reads me, s/he gets a random role. THAT becomes detrimental to me, since I can't explain a scum read without role claiming.
But why volunteer for slaughter, then, instead of waiting for the seer to misidentify you? It'd make a scum win more likely, but you wouldn't care about that. You aren't forced to win with town, and I think you should even be happy if the seer is distracted.
@Carrot-eater: do not waste time on piano or Frogge. They will die anyway. Concentrate on actual scummy people.
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