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Thickening the plot

  • Marrend
  • 03/21/2011 05:12 PM
  • 2601 views
Since last blog, I've been thinking of what I can do to cause players to suspect that there's something odd about the dream world versus what I already do that is supposed to cause queries.

When I get feedback about the "dream world", the first and foremost thing players tell me is that it doesn't look like a dream. They say to include a frayed or clouded edge, or at least have dim lighting. Perhaps they are of the belief that I'm being lazy in not including visual effects. Perhaps they are of the belief that I didn't know how to perform the techniques. While there is some truth to these lines of thinking, it's just not the case. They are left out on purpose.

Why does the party have to go through the motions of dungeon-delving in the "dream world" in order to "wake up"? I'm guessing most players answer that question with "because the designer said so". While that's a true statement in the most basic form, I was hoping for some kind of query on the player's part. I dunno. Perhaps I should have the characters question it? If the characters ask Mina, she would probably avoid the question, or give an indirect answer. An evasive answer from an NPC would essentially translate to players as "because the designer says so". Hmm. Not sure what to do on this front.

Even if player's don't question the validity of dungeon-delving within the "dream world", there's still the question of the end-of-chapter events that occur after the player decides to leave the "dream world". Maybe it's just me, but those events tied together the way they do heavily suggests that Masako is more of a key character than what the game let on. I haven't gotten much feedback on what players think about those events, so I have no idea if the suspicion is there or not.

What else can I do to get players to ask questions about the true nature of the "dream world"? Perhaps there's something I can do within the dungeons themselves to cause suspicion? It's not a terrible idea, but I'm not sure what that "something" is, or how it would take form.

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Anyone who plays the game will damn well know there's something odd about the dream world. The fact that multiple people have the same dream is a giveaway.

However, when you involve supernatural events like that, nothing prevents it from being both real and a dream at the same time. The characters could be dreaming it all while those events at the same time takes place at another dimension or something. Involving an unexplained supernatural event opens up practically every door. For that reason, you can't expect the player to link the lack of "dream effects" with the idea that maybe it isn't just a dream. Again, any player will know that there's more to it than just a dream.

If you want the player to know the dream effects were left out on purpose, I think you can more or less have the characters say that. Dreams in real life are often not only "foggy", but also incoherent. They can jump from one event to another in a way that were it a story, it would have looked like the author started writing one plot, then in the middle forget what plot he was writing and instead wrote a different plot. For example, I've had dream where I first was in one type of environment and later I was in a completely different environment without any clear reason to why I'm suddenly somewhere else. I didn't either notice anything was wrong until I woke up and then thought about the dream. The characters can discuss that fact and comment that the dream they all had was both way to clear and coherent.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's really any tricks to making the player ask questions though. The better the writing, the more curious the players will be. It's very simple really, whenever something doesn't make any sense based on the information you have, either you lack the information that will make sense of it or it is so that it just doesn't make any sense. If you want the player to trust you on that it's the former, you need to have shown them earlier that things does make sense. Basically, pay attention to the small details and write them so that the player knows you're thinking things trough.
As for the first point, maybe a small overlay would do the trick. Or you could have characters (NPCs) not acting the way they usually do. I find that often happens in dreams. Also, you might consider blacking out the NPC's faces. In a lot of dreams, you never actually see the faces of people you know. As for the second question, you could easily have the dream-world end whenever you want it, and not have to worry about people questioning your design, by just having the dream end. Don't make the objective of the dungeon to escape the dream, just have the character wander around, and when they get to a certain random place, just have them wake up.

I really hope this helped Marrend, I'm looking foreword to this.
Crap, the first point I made just got completely trashed by Everguard!
Sorry man! I've been really sick, and I didn't take the time to read your post before making mine.... :(
Another common characteristic of dreams is that bizarre things actually don't get questioned at all by the dreamer or any other people. The first step is establishing characters and the limits of the game world, then you can play around with going over these boundaries in the dream world. It doesn't need any visual effects, although a clear ending of the scene preceding the dream world is in order; such that the player wouldn't expect a jump to wherever it is the dream world is taking place (although, at the same time, if the player believes that what is happening is actually feasible in the waking world, that's not such a bad thing either, it gives more emphasis to the characters when they say things they don't say, or go along with bizarre events that would normally be questioned.
author=Everguard
Sorry man! I've been really sick, and I didn't take the time to read your post before making mine.... :(

You're not under any obligation whatsoever to help me make my point, so there's nothing to apologize for.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
The going theory I have is by the time Chapter 1 ends, the characters are under the assumption that it must be a dream because it's too weird to be explained otherwise. The characters don't know that the experience was shared at that point. That's part of the player knowledge versus character knowledge that I was talking about in the "Knowledge is power" blog. What players believe at that point, well, I guess they can be allowed to believe what they want, now that I think about it.

One of the things I'm envisioning for Chapter 2 is when everyone is at Goho's house, Joruri, Katai, and Goho talk about their "shared dream", and the discussion about why they had such a close experience are so similar can go from there. I was going to have the discussion in the school, but with just Joruri's and Goho's input. I believe having Katai mouth off is important as well.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I think it might be enough to just have one of the characters say something like "Man, I just had the weirdest dream. I remember the entire thing, too. I don't think I've ever had a dream I remember in its entirety before - usually you only remember bits and pieces, you know? But I remember that whole thing." Maybe they don't even have to say it - maybe they can just think it to themselves and you can show a thought bubble. But still, this implies that the character is thinking the same things you want the player to think.

When the game is being shown entirely from the protagonists' point of view, it's extremely difficult to make the player aware of things that the characters aren't aware of. If the player has a reason to guess something, then the characters do too. The only way to reveal info only to the player is to break point of view. You have to show things to the audience that the characters don't see. Maybe this means a cut scene that shows what the villains are doing, or maybe it means something more subtle, like having things happen on-camera but behind the heroes' backs.
When the game is being shown entirely from the protagonists' point of view, it's extremely difficult to make the player aware of things that the characters aren't aware of.

Well, it is hard if you want to do it in a way that resembles good storytelling. Otherwise, it's actually extremely easy, so easy many writers does so in accident.

For example, there's a countless of RPGs where the player knows that the church is evil even before there's has been any sign of said church doing evil things while the characters won't notice until they get evidence shown right into the face. In this case, the player has already seen a lot of "OMG, the church is evil!" plots while the characters haven't.
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